I don't see what's wrong with circumcision. I've personally been cut, and have been since birth and so far life for my penis has been peachy.
Some of the people in this thread have called it "mutilation" or compared it to cutting off another body part. The difference is that the foreskin doesn't serve any vital purpose, kind of like the appendix, which actually has a greater risk of causing negative effects than positive. Or in another FPer's comparison, two toes, which are vital to stability.
The debate about health risks of getting cut vs. staying intact seems to kind of even out. Circumcision seems to be a preventative system that is simply useful not in preventing STIs/STDs, but rather conditions that can arise from not getting cut. That being said, it's still not very likely that anyone who has an intact penis is going to get these complications anyways.
As of right now, if I were to have a son, I would probably push to have him circumcised after birth. Not that I am strongly biased one way or the other, I just don't see a reason not to. And before anyone pipes in about sex being less pleasurable, I can attest that I still feel plenty of pleasure having sex.
[QUOTE=Evilan;37210152]I don't see what's wrong with circumcision. I've personally been cut, and have been since birth and so far life for my penis has been peachy.
Some of the people in this thread have called it "mutilation" or compared it to cutting off another body part. The difference is that the foreskin doesn't serve any vital purpose, kind of like the appendix, which actually has a greater risk of causing negative effects than positive. Or in another FPer's comparison, two toes, which are vital to stability.
The debate about health risks of getting cut vs. staying intact seems to kind of even out. Circumcision seems to be a preventative system that is simply useful not in preventing STIs/STDs, but rather conditions that can arise from not getting cut. That being said, it's still not very likely that anyone who has an intact penis is going to get these complications anyways.
As of right now, if I were to have a son, I would probably push to have him circumcised after birth. Not that I am strongly biased one way or the other, [B]I just don't see a reason not to[/B]. And before anyone pipes in about sex being less pleasurable, I can attest that I still feel plenty of pleasure having sex.[/QUOTE]
Let's say that your son would actually be against it, the decision would already have been made and he had no choice. If you had not chosen to do it he could have done it later if he so wanted. And now some people might say that "He wouldn't do it when later in adulthood, hes too embarrased!" well, that only proves the point that even simple embarrasment can stop people from doing it which means it really isn't such a big problem washing your dong.
[QUOTE=Aerkhan;37124104]except that they´re unconsious (didnt spell that right but im damn tired) when they do it, so they wont feel shit[/QUOTE]
That is completely false, in most cases the child will actually faint due to the pain.
[QUOTE=Evilan;37210152]As of right now, if I were to have a son, I would probably push to have him circumcised after birth. Not that I am strongly biased one way or the other, I just don't see a reason not to. And before anyone pipes in about sex being less pleasurable, I can attest that I still feel plenty of pleasure having sex.[/QUOTE]
If you've never experienced sex with a foreskin you wouldn't know.
[QUOTE=Evilan;37210152]I don't see what's wrong with circumcision. I've personally been cut, and have been since birth and so far life for my penis has been peachy.
Some of the people in this thread have called it "mutilation" or compared it to cutting off another body part. The difference is that the foreskin doesn't serve any vital purpose, kind of like the appendix, which actually has a greater risk of causing negative effects than positive. Or in another FPer's comparison, two toes, which are vital to stability.
The debate about health risks of getting cut vs. staying intact seems to kind of even out. Circumcision seems to be a preventative system that is simply useful not in preventing STIs/STDs, but rather conditions that can arise from not getting cut. That being said, it's still not very likely that anyone who has an intact penis is going to get these complications anyways.
As of right now, if I were to have a son, I would probably push to have him circumcised after birth. Not that I am strongly biased one way or the other, I just don't see a reason not to. And before anyone pipes in about sex being less pleasurable, I can attest that I still feel plenty of pleasure having sex.[/QUOTE]
The reason not to is because it's fucking painful and there's no reason to do it.
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;37248111]If you've never experienced sex with a foreskin you wouldn't know.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure we can all agree there isn't a significant difference. Anybody that tries to say otherwise is just lying to try and further their point.
You can't physically remember anything from when you were younger than two years old, so the painful argument doesn't matter. It's literally going to be forgotten and cause no mental anguish or leave any permanent mark.
[editline]15th August 2012[/editline]
"I don't like what other people are doing so I'm going to try and make it illegal."
If you can't see the point in it, that's fine, you can live ignorantly if you'd like. I'm just saying, if you're uncut OR cut, you don't really have a say in it because nothing is ever going to change.
[QUOTE=FFStudios;37249959]I'm pretty sure we can all agree there isn't a significant difference. Anybody that tries to say otherwise is just lying to try and further their point.
You can't physically remember anything from when you were younger than two years old, so the painful argument doesn't matter. It's literally going to be forgotten and cause no mental anguish or leave any permanent mark.[/QUOTE]
Whether you can remember or not is not the point, and whether or not you specifically mind it is not the point either. I'm sure you could physically harm a baby in other ways and it might not remember that in detail afterwards, but you wouldn't do it. The point is that the child is not able to give consent to this procedure, and the parents are not (or in places where they are, [I]should[/I] not) be able to decide whether or not their child needs it on such flimsy criteria as 'easier to clean' and 'will still be able to masturbate'.
[editline]15th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=FFStudios;37249959]"I don't like what other people are doing so I'm going to try and make it illegal."
If you can't see the point in it, that's fine, you can live ignorantly if you'd like. I'm just saying, if you're uncut OR cut, you don't really have a say in it because nothing is ever going to change.[/QUOTE]
And this part in particular is especially nonsense, essentially the defeatist's argument: "It will never change! How I know this to be certain I have no idea, but it definitely will never change!"
Yes, I'm sure that's why the issue of whether circumcision be illegal or not is an issue [I]almost everywhere[/I] on some level.
[QUOTE=Pasalaqcua;37211005]That is completely false, in most cases the child will actually faint due to the pain.[/QUOTE]
Only in a backwards nation like the USA.
Here in The Netherlands we knock you out before the operation.
[QUOTE=Adam Giamboner;37180941]I only hate being circumcised due to discomfort when exercising.
[sp]Dem briefs[/sp][/QUOTE]
Doesn't bother me at all.
[QUOTE=FFStudios;37249959]I'm pretty sure we can all agree there isn't a significant difference. Anybody that tries to say otherwise is just lying to try and further their point.
You can't physically remember anything from when you were younger than two years old, so the painful argument doesn't matter. It's literally going to be forgotten and cause no mental anguish or leave any permanent mark.
[editline]15th August 2012[/editline]
"I don't like what other people are doing so I'm going to try and make it illegal."
If you can't see the point in it, that's fine, you can live ignorantly if you'd like. I'm just saying, if you're uncut OR cut, you don't really have a say in it because nothing is ever going to change.[/QUOTE]
Just because they won't remember it later on doesn't mean that we have the right to perform such a heinous operation without them being knocked out.
By the logic that not remembering it makes it OK, I could hit you in the head with a baseball bat and castrate you and it'd be fine.
[QUOTE=supersnail11;37282170]By the logic that not remembering it makes it OK, I could hit you in the head with a baseball bat and castrate you and it'd be fine.[/QUOTE]
That is a horribly ignorant comparison. If you hit him in the head with a baseball bat he could have severe brain damage and possible mental instability going forward. A newborn does not have a developed enough brain to maintain long term memories nor are they even able to remember feelings or sensations. It would be better to go down 'Leader of Me's' argument that the baby should be knocked out before the operation takes place.
[editline]17th August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Flyingman356;37248111]If you've never experienced sex with a foreskin you wouldn't know.[/QUOTE]
If you've never experienced sex without a foreskin you wouldn't know.
I think if your parents decided to get you circumcised at younger age its better then because you wont remember the pain...
You should show your child how to wash his dick
but i think it should be left to the person when they are older.
Parents should have no permanent decisions in their child's life!
I mean, why stop at circumcision? What if their kid doesn't like his name or gender?
I vote for the imprisonment of all parents who name their children at birth! Its mutilation!
[QUOTE=Evilan;37210152]I don't see what's wrong with circumcision. I've personally been cut, and have been since birth and so far life for my penis has been peachy.[/QUOTE]
I love your personal experiences. That weighs in greatly as evidence.
[QUOTE=Evilan;37210152]Some of the people in this thread have called it "mutilation" or compared it to cutting off another body part. The difference is that the foreskin doesn't serve any vital purpose, kind of like the appendix, which actually has a greater risk of causing negative effects than positive. Or in another FPer's comparison, two toes, which are vital to stability.[/QUOTE]
That's okay then. Can I have your tailbone?
[QUOTE=Evilan;37210152]The debate about health risks of getting cut vs. staying intact seems to kind of even out. Circumcision seems to be a preventative system that is simply useful not in preventing STIs/STDs, but rather conditions that can arise from not getting cut. That being said, it's still not very likely that anyone who has an intact penis is going to get these complications anyways.[/QUOTE]
That's logical, if you cut something off it won't get infected.
So far your logic is okayish, because mainly it's about circumcision and voluntary stuff is okay.
[QUOTE=Evilan;37210152]As of right now, if I were to have a son, I would probably push to have him circumcised after birth. Not that I am strongly biased one way or the other, I just don't see a reason not to.[/QUOTE]
Because it's his penis?
[QUOTE=Evilan;37210152]And before anyone pipes in about sex being less pleasurable, I can attest that I still feel plenty of pleasure having sex.[/QUOTE]
Please stop trying to use logic like that. You can't say that because something exists it's not less than something else.
Everyone is ignoring the point I made earlier about how horribly wrong circumcisions can go.
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;36950272] [url=http://robinhl.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/botched-circumcision.jpg]nothing[/url] [url=http://www.oocities.org/stopric/botchedcircum.jpg]can[/url] [url=http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NeS7jvIDK-w/Tsh3wKVvjmI/AAAAAAAAABI/L3TrViKytuQ/s1600/Picture+009.jpg]go[/url] [url=http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--MQMq1kJZnU/TslG8rWKo_I/AAAAAAAAAEw/2850SQjwPaM/s1600/Ripped+Stitch+3.jpg]wrong![/url][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;37322015]Everyone is ignoring the point I made earlier about how horribly wrong circumcisions can go.[/QUOTE]
Can you do some kind of probability of how many viruses it stops versus how many penises it ruins?
[QUOTE=Webby2020;37318712]What if their kid doesn't like his name[/QUOTE]
Names can be changed.
[QUOTE=Webby2020;37318712]or gender?[/QUOTE]
Parents don't choose what gender their child is, or if their child is trans or not.
The child also can't choose those things.
[QUOTE=Webby2020;37318712]Its mutilation![/QUOTE]
You can't grow back your foreskin.
It doesn't give you an advantage, and it only has downsides.
Circumcision goes against the Hippocratic Oath: [b]do no harm[/b].
[QUOTE=Jookia;37322693]Can you do some kind of probability of how many viruses it stops versus how many penises it ruins?[/QUOTE]
It doesn't stop any, and there has never been hard evidence to prove anything even REMOTELY like that, either.
Even if removing your foreskin DID make you magically more resistant to AIDS, it should still be the child's choice. By the time they're old enough to be having sex they'll be old enough to make the choice.
Yeah, because the child can choose. Its not a point on whether he should be able to, but they can't. Its a then and there decision. My cousin went through a circumcision at age 14 due to problems with it, and it was much more detrimental due to the fact he had to heal while being an active young adult.
I don't think either side is wrong. To say it should be illegal is like saying you can turn off your vagina if you are raped. It just doesn't make sense. So just leave it to choice...Stop trying to mandate choice if you guys are so " pro choice " on everything. Do we really need more laws stuffing up the congress?
the lot of you act if the removal of a foreskin is as if you're taking one's soul away. cut or uncut shouldn't be that big of a deal.
[QUOTE=stupid10er;37335982]the lot of you act if the removal of a foreskin is as if you're taking one's soul away. cut or uncut shouldn't be that big of a deal.[/QUOTE]
You don't see a problem with parents mutilating their children?
Here's another example- how do you think people would react if we cut out the labia minora of girls when they're born? After all, it doesn't do anything important.
[QUOTE=stupid10er;37335982]the lot of you act if the removal of a foreskin is as if you're taking one's soul away. cut or uncut shouldn't be that big of a deal.[/QUOTE]
There are thousands of nerves in the foreskin alone. It is a big deal. Also, Mr. Smartass has posted some of the permanent risks of circumcision. Why take the risk of cutting off a foreskin for NO REASON AT ALL and potentially harm the child. When they grow up with the screwed up dicks, they'll think "I never wanted this." And wish they were never mutilated at birth in the first place.
Sure, let's go ahead and cut off every 'unnecessary' part of the body, after all, they won't remember the pain in a few days anyways.
Circumcision because of hygiene in a [B]first world country[/B] is absolutely disgusting, and doing it because the child can't remember the pain is selfish.
I think the child should be able to decide once they are older.
It is not up to the parent to decide possibly life changing things for them. If its a religious thing, what if they end up not believing in that? It would also stop awkward things like this:
'Mummy why do all the other boys have skin on their willys?'
'Oh urm.......'
It maddens me when people use the lack of memory of the pain to bolster the argument for circumcision. "You don't remember the pain, so it's all good." No. It's wrong and not recalling the event doesn't change that.
MY DICK IS SCIENTIFICALLY BETTER THAN YOURS.
/c
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Read the rules of Mass Debate. Start effort posting." - Swebonny))[/highlight]
ban that shit aye
[QUOTE=Canuhearmenow;32426929]It really isn't, and the whole, "They can't masturbate without lube" argument isn't true either.[/QUOTE]
When I masturbate, I rub the head of my dick through the foreskin for the strongest sensation. I honestly can't imagine masturbating without my foreskin, and I just thankgod noone cut my foreskin off.
It actually makes me cringe, to imagine losing it. There's a reason we evolved with a foreskin.
[QUOTE=supersnail11;37282170]By the logic that not remembering it makes it OK, I could hit you in the head with a baseball bat and castrate you and it'd be fine.[/QUOTE]
Except that hitting someone with a bat has only negative (both long and short term) consequences, while circumcision has only permanent positives ones, and the pain as a negative short-term one.
[editline]22nd August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;37322015]Everyone is ignoring the point I made earlier about how horribly wrong circumcisions can go.[/QUOTE]
It can, but it doesn't [b]have[/b] to.
That's like saying "I'M NEVER GOING TO EAT AGAIN BECAUSE I CAN GET POISONED!!!1!11!!"
[editline]22nd August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=OHNOES;37323306]Names can be changed.
Parents don't choose what gender their child is, or if their child is trans or not.
The child also can't choose those things.
You can't grow back your foreskin.
It doesn't give you an advantage, and it only has downsides.
Circumcision goes against the Hippocratic Oath: [b]do no harm[/b].[/QUOTE]
Not everyone is religious. Circumcision has only upsides.
[editline]22nd August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;37333603]It doesn't stop any, and there has never been hard evidence to prove anything even REMOTELY like that, either.[/QUOTE]
True, mostly. It only stops dirt from getting under your skin, there's no hard evidence for stopping something else.
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;37333603]
Even if removing your foreskin DID make you magically more resistant to AIDS, it should still be the child's choice. By the time they're old enough to be having sex they'll be old enough to make the choice.[/QUOTE]
Prevention is better then curing. AIDS (or HIV) isn't only spread by sex.
[editline]22nd August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Smartass;37337557]You don't see a problem with parents mutilating their children?
Here's another example- how do you think people would react if we cut out the labia minora of girls when they're born? After all, it doesn't do anything important.[/QUOTE]
Mutilitating is a strong word, circumcision is prevention. Removing the foreskin actually has a permanent upside. Removing the Labia Minora does not, as far as I know.
[editline]22nd August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Pasalaqcua;37340577]There are thousands of nerves in the foreskin alone. It is a big deal. Also, Mr. Smartass has posted some of the permanent risks of circumcision. Why take the risk of cutting off a foreskin for NO REASON AT ALL[/QUOTE]
Intelligent, normal people don't do it for 'No, reason at all'. They do it for hygiene. The "HURRDURRANTIDISEASE" or "ITS BECAUSE <RELIGION/OTHERCRAP> FORCES ME TO" are bullshit.
[QUOTE=Pasalaqcua;37340577]
and potentially harm the child. When they grow up with the screwed up dicks, they'll think "I never wanted this." And wish they were never mutilated at birth in the first place.[/QUOTE]
Potentially. Should we shut down every medical procedure because "something can always go wrong"?
[editline]22nd August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=007JamesBond007;37341713]I think the child should be able to decide once they are older.
It is not up to the parent to decide possibly life changing things for them. If its a religious thing, what if they end up not believing in that? It would also stop awkward things like this:
'Mummy why do all the other boys have skin on their willys?'
'Oh urm.......'[/QUOTE]
Circumcision is not religious.
[QUOTE=brawl;37346363]It maddens me when people use the lack of memory of the pain to bolster the argument for circumcision. "You don't remember the pain, so it's all good." No. It's wrong and not recalling the event doesn't change that.[/QUOTE]
Even tho it is pretty egoistic, and I as well dislike it. But it makes sense. I got circumcised when I was 15 (My mother didn't want to do it when I was a newborn, as it was my own choice), but I wish I was as a newborn.
The pain, oh the pain...
It doesn't justify it, but still.
[editline]22nd August 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Vexomination;37354249]When I masturbate, I rub the head of my dick through the foreskin for the strongest sensation. I honestly can't imagine masturbating without my foreskin, and I just thankgod noone cut my foreskin off.[/QUOTE]
Grab your shaft and go up'n'down.
[QUOTE=Vexomination;37354249]It actually makes me cringe, to imagine losing it. There's a reason we evolved with a foreskin.[/QUOTE]
We did because it [b]had[/b], but no longer does have an use.
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