• Life on Europa
    72 replies, posted
[QUOTE=teh pirate;34121768]If that were the case it'd completely revolutionize science - life occurring twice on the same planet on different occasions?[/QUOTE] It didn't revolutionize it, it just reafirmed what scientists already thought was going on.
What kind of arguments are these? It's alien-life it's going to be different than what we know life as.
This [QUOTE=OvB;34117449]If there is life it's chemosynthetic extremeophiles feeding off the hydrothermal vents on the ocean floor because photosynthesis would be impossible due to the ice and distance from the sun. For that the planet would need to be geologically active. The ocean there has the potential to be incredibility deep. Something like 20 kilometers. (earths ocean is only 7 miles at its deepest point). Pressure there would be incredible. Europa is a very young rock and I'm not sure if it has undergone the necessary processes to develop primitive cells, whatever that may be. We won't know unless we go.[/QUOTE] And this [QUOTE=OvB;34119082]Chemosythetic organisms don't require anything more than the methane and other chemicals that come from the vents. Earths oxygen is here in the first place only because it was a waste product from photosynthesis. Oxygen is not necessary.[/QUOTE] There is definitely a [I]chance[/I] for some sort of life on Europa. I certainly hope there is. But unless we go there and find out for ourselves (which will be quite the challenge) we won't know if there is life or not on Europa.
The biggest problem with finding out if there is life on Europa or not isn't even getting there. It's getting through a 10 to 15 kilometers crust of ice. That's certainly something we're not ready to do yet on another planet/moon. Although there could exist pockets of water just 3 kilometers beneath the surface. But even getting there is hard.
considering we haven't been to mars yet, it seems likely. Probably no complex life forms (like fish) maybe bacteria as there are bacteria that eat radioactive material and live in very high alkaline conditions and bacteria that live in the arctic in penguin shite.
I remember reading that someone was planning to send an autonomous submarine robot to Europa, to get under the ice and swim around looking for any signs of life, then emerge and send signals back to Earth.
I thought the thread title was a MASSIVE misspelling. Thank god it wasn't. I think it could be possible with some terraforming. Which reminds me, wasn't there plans to terraform Mars? But it would take like... 250,000 years?
[QUOTE=Nikita;34129726]I remember reading that someone was planning to send an autonomous submarine robot to Europa, to get under the ice and swim around looking for any signs of life, then emerge and send signals back to Earth.[/QUOTE] They still are, but it's one of those 'some time in the next 20 years' things.
[QUOTE=rosthouse;34127423]The biggest problem with finding out if there is life on Europa or not isn't even getting there. It's getting through a 10 to 15 kilometers crust of ice. That's certainly something we're not ready to do yet on another planet/moon. Although there could exist pockets of water just 3 kilometers beneath the surface. But even getting there is hard.[/QUOTE] A Cone shaped probe powered by a nuclear material could heat the ice around it tunneling it down may work, but the risk of it detonating on the surface or contaminating the ecosystem may out weigh the pros of it. [editline]9th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Satane;34127706]making a relativelly small nuclear powered drill robot shouldn't be a problem[/QUOTE] contamination is worrisome [editline]9th January 2012[/editline] What we can use is lasers, as this technology expands we can easily heat through the ice and drop a probe in before it seals up, though a tether of some sort will be needed to send back what it's seeing [editline]9th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Derp Y. Mail;34129775]I thought the thread title was a MASSIVE misspelling. Thank god it wasn't. I think it could be possible with some terraforming. Which reminds me, wasn't there plans to terraform Mars? But it would take like... 250,000 years?[/QUOTE] Mars has no Ozone which protects the planet from the suns radioactive rays, meaning we would have to synthesize it out of oxygen which is possible today, I thought the estimate was 25,000 years if we had the proper technology to do it at a fast rate
It could be true, it can be bacteria, but its (though unlikely) probably even flesh-and-blood animal-type creatures, so far only time will tell.
[QUOTE=timmyvos;34117848]ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT EUROPA. ATTEMPT NO LANDING THERE.[/QUOTE] I am literally just posting to say how amazing you are for knowing that, and for being another person who only thinks of "2010" when someone mentions Europa.
Titan would be best candidate [quote]Titan (Largest moon of Saturn) is the only known moon with a significant atmosphere. Data from the Cassini–Huygens mission refuted the hypothesis of a global hydrocarbon ocean, but later demonstrated the existence of liquid hydrocarbon lakes in the polar regions—the first liquid lakes discovered outside of Earth.[85][86][87] Analysis of data from the mission has uncovered aspects of atmospheric chemistry near the surface which are consistent with—but do not prove—the hypothesis that organisms there are consuming hydrogen, acetylene and ethane, and producing methane.[88][89][90] An alternate explanation for the hypothetical existence of microbial life on Titan has already been formally proposed[91][92]—theorizing that microorganisms could have left Earth when it suffered a massive asteroid or comet impact (such as the impact that created Chicxulub crater only 65 mya), and survived a journey through space to land on Titan.[/quote] Ancelados too. [quote]Enceladus (Moon of Saturn) has some of the conditions for life including geothermal activity and water vapor as well as possible under-ice oceans heated by tidal effects. The Cassini probe detected carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen and oxygen -- all key elements for supporting living organisms - during a fly-by through one of Enceladus's geysers spewing ice and gas in 2005. The temperature and density of the plumes could indicate a warmer, watery source beneath the surface. Still, no life has been confirmed.[/quote]
[QUOTE=overpain;34110466]Ocean is also too cold. And there is no air on atmosphere, so there won't air in the water too.[/QUOTE] Life developed without oxygen, in fact oxygen was the waste product. Gravity produces incredible tidal forces, which would in fact heat the core of the planet up. [editline]13th January 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=overpain;34190926]Titan would be best candidate Ancelados too.[/QUOTE] First quote would be awesome if it were true
As has been said above it would be warm(ish) due to the gravitational pulls exerted upon it. The liquid water would be a great place for life. Life began on an Earth with very little atmosphere or protection from the dangers presented by our universe yet life still evolved. I believe that life on Europa is POSSIBLE. It may not be there, but it is certainly possible that it could live there. Also, similar to Mars there is a chance that it had life but it has since died out.
welp then let's make jupiter implode and form a star so europa can form an atmosphere [editline]13th January 2012[/editline] fuck there's already been a 2010 reference
I do not see why not. We do not know everything about the galaxy, there can be some sort of anomalous alien specious living there for all we know.
I would [B]love[/B] to think so, but it is too cold.
[QUOTE=I be da best;34198163]I would [B]love[/B] to think so, but it is too cold.[/QUOTE] No it's fine. If the ocean is liquid then there's a chance for life. Temperature does not matter. We have organisms that live in both temperature below zero and temperatures well over 400 degrees [i]Celsius[/i] in deep sea hydrothermal vents. Ambient sea temperature being below zero, and sea temperature near the vents heating up. My only real concern is age. I don't think it's old enough to have any sort of complex life, but it could be in the process of producing it. It all depends if it was "seeded" by comets or not. I'm not sure if Europa possesses the ability to generate life on it's own as that requires a ton of energy.
Odyssey series much? :) Thats the first thing i thought of when I saw this article. Other than that, I don't know too much about Jupiter. Ive seen this mentioned before as a possible place to investigate life. NASA is still researching it based on a quick search from their website.
[QUOTE=overpain;34110064]No. It is too far from sun to be good habitat for life.[/QUOTE] While it is too far from the Sun to have liquid water in theory, the tidal forces from Jupiter stretches the surface like a racket ball being hit repeatedly, causing the liquid water below the surface to stay a liquid. As for life, however, I am adamant that there might be some form of life, be it Europaen lobsters or single-celled extremophiles. (Also, I thought that this was in Sensationalist Headlines for a second. Thanks for getting my hopes up...)
[QUOTE=overpain;34110466]Ocean is also too cold. And there is no air on atmosphere, so there won't air in the water too.[/QUOTE] There are bacteria in the deep ocean and in the deep earth that survive off geo-thermal heat and processing sulfer.
When you think about all the extreme aquatic environments we are now just discovering new life on, there has to be some sort of life under the ice. I like to think so, at least. Take into account things such as hydrothermal vents that are under our own oceans in places as cold as the polar ice caps. That far down, I wouldn't be surprised if there is something on the floor of the oceans on Europa that can sustain some sort of even microscopic single-celled life
I think we could genetically engineer an animal to easily live there. If we took a fish embryo and incorporated the right extremophile genes from all organismes around the world (from radioresistant bacteria to anti freeze proteins from artic fish.) and organised its veins and organs to be most apporpriate for the situation (Think of peguins and how blood warms the air coming in.) and increased its ability to take in fat. This fish could easily reproduce in europa waters, that could be considered intelligent life. Life probably wouldent have the right situation to evolve these mechanisms but it shows that intelligent life, if engineered correctly, can possibly thrive on europa.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't a satellite from the 70's, still operational just leave the Solar System? If it did surely it couldve caught some images for us right? Oh well. Anyway, I'm hoping, hoping, hoping that there is. This is the only thing that may be reachable in our lifetime to inhabit the moon. But, I'm not entirely sure, if we can find oxygen then it's a 100% yes to life, (I've just read that Europa already has oxygen, wat?) if not we can only hope.
[QUOTE=DesolateGrun;34121071]uh there isn't alot down there, and their whole lives depend on the heat giving vents or else they would die of cold. It's like a sun for them E.G.- Shrimp, microbes, crabs taht exist down in the depths[/QUOTE] You are missing that they are still on a planet that is very much more active geologically, powered by the Sun, our Earth that is. And a lot of life dwells in the depths of our oceans, like these guys who hang around near vulcanic heat vents and stuff, and it goes on.. So life on Europa would surely not be eels and crabs like people have thought
Life on other planets is interesting. Finding life on Europa or another planetary body would be amazing, but at the same time, scary, knowing that we have more then once instance of life in our solar system, it's almost scary to think how many other life forms must exist in neighboring star system, each one, totally different from us. Evolving, in a possibly totally different way. Looking up at the stars, thinking of all the other life forms up there, possibly totally unaware of us, just laying there. I would love nothing more the for humanity to drop their arms, unite, and focus on the final frontier, space. The most hostile place in the universe, devoid of life, oxygen and water. Just imagine. For one moment. What i'd be like to talk to something that grew up on another planet, totally different conditions, never seen a human before, a sentient creature with it's own language, culture and history. Even though this little paragraph has almost nothing to do with the debate, it's just a general comment on life in outer space. Trying to find other sentient life, should be our priority.
I hate it when people say there could be hundreds of billions of different planets with life running wild on em.. I mean, life could be inevitably a rare occurrence.. Or the however "small" number of planets with life on them is actually growing steadily but slowly, for the past 14 billion years
I think theres a possibility
Everyone seems to be saying the possible ocean could not have oxygen. Most likely it does indeed have oxygen. The thin atmosphere that Europa has mostly consists of oxygen. That oxygen comes from radiation splitting water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen. The same effect could have very well over millions of years saturated the ocean with oxygen. Oxygen-rich water and geothermal activity(using the prefix geo- here probably isn't entirely correct but whatever) would definitely be sufficient to sustain life. Whether the environment is or has been suitable for abiogenesis is a whole different story and remains to be seen. I hope but very much doubt.
I am adamant that there is life. Life unlike Earth's, (Eldritch abomination) single-celled organisms, and perhaps even fish.
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