Well, sure is a lot of posts in this thread which seem to forget that opinion doesn't equal fact. For example, lots of people saying AvP is total crap. Hey, I rather enjoyed it! Not as good as the original Alien films but fuck me if it isn't cool watching Aliens and Predators beating the shit out of each other.
That's my opinion, want to try and disagree with me?
What gets me is this: What makes an alien become a queen? Are there special queen eggs with special queen facehuggers in them? Does an Alien just moult into a Queen if there isn't one present?
And I like what Cameron did with the Aliens, Serial rapist bug with dozens more to back it up back at the hive is still as scary as a Serial rapist mystery alien in my opinion.
[QUOTE=cyclocius;20370203]What gets me is this: What makes an alien become a queen? Are there special queen eggs with special queen facehuggers in them? [b]Does an Alien just moult into a Queen if there isn't one present?[/b]
And I like what Cameron did with the Aliens, Serial rapist bug with dozens more to back it up back at the hive is still as scary as a Serial rapist mystery alien in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I think they might fight over it too, if you want to take into account the Praetorian, a Praetorian becomes a queen when one is gone.
[editline]04:44PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=BmB;20359123]I might wish to remind everyone that the use of the word Xenomorph is still dumb a page later.[/QUOTE]
it doesn't fucking matter, it sounds cooler than saying Alien, and it's more specific and easier to know what you're talking about. stop trolling/being an idiot
[QUOTE=cyclocius;20370203]What gets me is this: What makes an alien become a queen? Are there special queen eggs with special queen facehuggers in them? Does an Alien just moult into a Queen if there isn't one present?
And I like what Cameron did with the Aliens, Serial rapist bug with dozens more to back it up back at the hive is still as scary as a Serial rapist mystery alien in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
Maybe. But it all comes down to, what is the audience thinking?
Do you want them thinking about the logistics of a situation? When the hero is being attacked, should it matter how powerful the threat is? Or does it matter how much power the threat has over the hero and the audience?
And in Aliens they're just bugs. Sexual elements forgotten or forgone.
And I believe there was supposed to be a "super facehugger" in Alien 3 that's supposed to carry a queen, but Alien 3 was shit so fuck it.
[editline]02:40AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=fylth;20369867]Well, sure is a lot of posts in this thread which seem to forget that opinion doesn't equal fact. For example, lots of people saying AvP is total crap. Hey, I rather enjoyed it! Not as good as the original Alien films but fuck me if it isn't cool watching Aliens and Predators beating the shit out of each other.
That's my opinion, want to try and disagree with me?[/QUOTE]
Well I could very easily say that even though the concept of Predators fighting Aliens is cool, it was done poorly in the film. That wouldn't effect your enjoyment of it, but then discussion isn't about breaking the will of other people and making them think as you do.
I want to see the goddamn King Alien. I mean, doesn't every species need a male to sterilize the eggs? I believe the "King" is noncanon right now, but I would love to see a bigger more badass Xenomorph that dwarfs the queen and praetorian.
affect*
yeah i think that with the queen youre just supposed to suspend your disbelief
or theres some kind of alien royal jelly
[QUOTE=Gummylamb;20369233]>:C
[editline]03:35PM[/editline]
[B]Mcgruffin[/B], I certainly see where you're coming from, you prefer dark horrible things over, well, James Cameron's xenomorphs, it all comes down to what you prefer, but no matter what, both are amazing ideas of a species, maybe you won't agree to it, but I'm sure a lot will. So, stop arguing over which is better because it's all based on opinion (well no shit, but there's no point, you can't change someone's opinion in this case)[/QUOTE]
[img]http://wagthedog.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/mcgruff.gif[/img]?
But in all seriousness, I'm not trying to change your opinion on what's what, I'm just trying to have a good discussion.
It's an interesting topic, easily the most interesting part of the whole series. I'm just interested in what people think and why they think it.
[editline]02:43AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Dragoshi1;20372824]I want to see the goddamn King Alien. I mean, doesn't every species need a male to sterilize the eggs? I believe the "King" is noncanon right now, but I would love to see a bigger more badass Xenomorph that dwarfs the queen and praetorian.[/QUOTE]
actually wouldn't the male be smaller because all it has to do is pork the queen?
[QUOTE=Dragoshi1;20372824]I want to see the goddamn King Alien. I mean, doesn't every species need a male to sterilize the eggs? I believe the "King" is noncanon right now, but I would love to see a bigger more badass Xenomorph that dwarfs the queen and praetorian.[/QUOTE]
fertilize, you mean.
and i think aliens can reproduce without needing a mate, just a host (i.e. facehuggers laying eggs in a human stomach)
also, in nature, the female of the species is usually larger.
hm.
I wonder, wouldn't Xenomorphs be like Bees?
They have the same caste system more or less.
[QUOTE=fylth;20369867]Well, sure is a lot of posts in this thread which seem to forget that opinion doesn't equal fact. For example, lots of people saying AvP is total crap. Hey, I rather enjoyed it! Not as good as the original Alien films but fuck me if it isn't cool watching Aliens and Predators beating the shit out of each other.
That's my opinion, want to try and disagree with me?[/QUOTE]
There's no such thing as an opinion. You enjoying something isn't an opinion, it's a fact; you enjoyed the movie. Doesn't mean it's a good movie; it means that it has enjoyable aspects to it, merits. These are the things people argue about when they are analyzing a piece of art. And the fact that we can argue about them also implies that they themselves are based in fact.
[QUOTE=professional;20298184]They do. But that doesn't stop AVP and AVP2 from being horrendously shit movies.[/QUOTE]
Agree. I want them to try again, and restore the good name that was AvP before those shitty movies.
[QUOTE=yuki;20373158]Agree. I want them to try again, and restore the good name that was AvP before those shitty movies.[/QUOTE]
Ah yes, Alien vs Predator was so awesome before Alien vs Predator...
[QUOTE=ryandaniels;20373202]Ah yes, Alien vs Predator was so awesome before Alien vs Predator...[/QUOTE]
someones forgetting about the games :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Membrain;20373226]someones forgetting about the games :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
And the comics. The comics were cool.
oh yeah the comics rule
Ah, thought it was typo or something, had no idea AvP existed before the movies...
[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;20372734]Maybe. But it all comes down to, what is the audience thinking?
Do you want them thinking about the logistics of a situation? When the hero is being attacked, should it matter how powerful the threat is? Or does it matter how much power the threat has over the hero and the audience?
And in Aliens they're just bugs. Sexual elements forgotten or forgone.
And I believe there was supposed to be a "super facehugger" in Alien 3 that's supposed to carry a queen, but Alien 3 was shit so fuck it.
[/QUOTE]
I wasn't thinking about the situation too much, as far as I'm concerned; A Xenomorph on it's own is a massive, deadly threat as seen in Alien. But when they multiply and there becomes more, they become more agressive, still cunning somewhat, but more violent.
I know they're always violent, but I mean...I don't know, the Alien in Alien didn't run off, grow into a drone then come back and slaughter everyone immediatley did it? The Aliens in Aliens did, the marines entered their hive, slaughter, the aliens then gave chase and captured as many as they could for Facehugging.
The emphasis on rape is still there I feel, it's just not as evident. The hive is like...a rapists den if you will. The queen is, I feel a very good addition. I watched the video you posted last page or so, about the different ending, where the humans became the eggs. But I always found the idea of a queen to be better, I guess to me Aliens were always bugs. Giant, raping bugs, and the Queen has just cemented that in my mind.
Having said that, I know neither one of us can convince the others of our viewpoints validity, but I'm just saying my opinions.
Both are great films
[QUOTE=BmB;20359123]I might wish to remind everyone that the use of the word Xenomorph is still dumb a page later.[/QUOTE]
No one fucking cares. Quit persisting your stupid little rant.
[QUOTE=cyclocius;20379687]I wasn't thinking about the situation too much, as far as I'm concerned; A Xenomorph on it's own is a massive, deadly threat as seen in Alien. But when they multiply and there becomes more, they become more agressive, still cunning somewhat, but more violent.
I know they're always violent, but I mean...I don't know, the Alien in Alien didn't run off, grow into a drone then come back and slaughter everyone immediatley did it? The Aliens in Aliens did, the marines entered their hive, slaughter, the aliens then gave chase and captured as many as they could for Facehugging.
The emphasis on rape is still there I feel, it's just not as evident. The hive is like...a rapists den if you will. The queen is, I feel a very good addition. I watched the video you posted last page or so, about the different ending, where the humans became the eggs. But I always found the idea of a queen to be better, I guess to me Aliens were always bugs. Giant, raping bugs, and the Queen has just cemented that in my mind.
Having said that, I know neither one of us can convince the others of our viewpoints validity, but I'm just saying my opinions.[/QUOTE]
But they are aren't supposed to be just straight violent. Violence alone isn't scary.
Murderers can be predicted. Violent animals can be predicted. The Aliens in Aliens can be predicted. The Alien in Alien can't. It is a completely alien enitity. It's twisted, abhorrent, almost sensual in it's violence. It is human. That is what makes it so powerful.
It is violence, sex, and darkness incarnate. It's not a bug, to try make it a bug is to miss the point of it's design.
H R Giger says that all his paintings come from his dreams. He is painting literal nightmares. That's what the alien is.
It's not a bug, it's not an animal, it's not a killer or a rapist, it's a dream. A twisted human dream of sex, death, fear, and darkness, and through the artist all of these are combined into one thing. And that thing isn't definable or analyzable. It's a nightmare, and it acts as nightmares do.
To try and make it into anything, to try and define it by any means, to try and fit it to an animal any further than ourselves, that is to show a supreme lack of understanding of what the Alien is.
You have to understand, that in over a century of movie history, the Alien is singularly unique creature. There is no other like it. It should be understood.
[QUOTE=LeeMelvin;20359842]Well it's science fiction. Still nice to have that believability. And the added origin of the eggs being created by a queen made it more so.[/QUOTE]
It didn't. As I said how can they be a threat to anyone under the queen system? If you have a gun you shoot the queen and shoot the dangerous bulk of the aliens. Then even if some escape you can shoot them if they come back and most likely they will die from old age or something else with no way to reproduce without a queen. Under the egg system you must get every single one. If one escapes it can ambush a lone victim and egg it. Get another with the egg and then there are two aliens. Rinse, repeat until they are too many.
[editline]11:39PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Loen;20384106]I like to be and remain an idiot. Being an idiot and not understanding the language used in the film is cool. the letter X is cool and all you.[/QUOTE]
....
[QUOTE=BmB;20384735]It didn't. As I said how can they be a threat to anyone under the queen system? If you have a gun you shoot the queen and shoot the dangerous bulk of the aliens. Then even if some escape you can shoot them if they come back and most likely they will die from old age or something else with no way to reproduce without a queen. Under the egg system you must get every single one. If one escapes it can ambush a lone victim and egg it. Get another with the egg and then there are two aliens. Rinse, repeat until they are too many.
[editline]11:39PM[/editline]
....[/QUOTE]
If we're talking about threat here, in Alien they're indestructible. So yer.
[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;20384645]But they are aren't supposed to be just straight violent. Violence alone isn't scary.
Murderers can be predicted. Violent animals can be predicted. The Aliens in Aliens can be predicted. The Alien in Alien can't. It is a completely alien enitity. It's twisted, abhorrent, almost sensual in it's violence. It is human. That is what makes it so powerful.
It is violence, sex, and darkness incarnate. It's not a bug, to try make it a bug is to miss the point of it's design.
H R Giger says that all his paintings come from his dreams. He is painting literal nightmares. That's what the alien is.
It's not a bug, it's not an animal, it's not a killer or a rapist, it's a dream. A twisted human dream of sex, death, fear, and darkness, and through the artist all of these are combined into one thing. And that thing isn't definable or analyzable. It's a nightmare, and it acts as nightmares do.
To try and make it into anything, to try and define it by any means, to try and fit it to an animal any further than ourselves, that is to show a supreme lack of understanding of what the Alien is.
You have to understand, that in over a century of movie history, the Alien is singularly unique creature. There is no other like it. It should be understood.[/QUOTE]
you should be spending your time writing an essay about this, not posting on a forum full of 12 year olds.
[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;20384873]If we're talking about threat here, in Alien they're indestructible. So yer.[/QUOTE]
What? I'm pretty sure they cut a hole in the facehugger. And the deadliest thing they attacked the grown alien with was a flamethrower. Not a whole lot of room for injury. Particularly not if its skin is hardened.
[QUOTE=Membrain;20384889]you should be spending your time writing an essay about this, not posting on a forum full of 12 year olds.[/QUOTE]
Having had experience with multiple age groups, it honestly doesn't matter how old they are. Either they'll listen or they won't.
[editline]09:46PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=BmB;20384915]What? I'm pretty sure they cut a hole in the facehugger. And the deadliest thing they attacked the grown alien with was a flamethrower. Not a whole lot of room for injury. Particularly not if its skin is hardened.[/QUOTE]
It took an engine blast to the face and wasn't even dented.
[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;20384947]Having had experience with multiple age groups, it honestly doesn't matter how old they are. Either they'll listen or they won't.[/QUOTE]
sadly they wont listen cause they dont know nothing about psycho-sexual terror, they just know "yo the smart gun is pretty fuckin sick"
[editline]04:48PM[/editline]
admittedly though the smart gun is pretty fuckin sick. especially since its just an m60 attached to a steadycam thingy
[QUOTE=BmB;20290460]ITT: Morons think "Xenomorph" is the name of the Alien and I twitch.
(And Alien 3 was terrible, it ends with Aliens.*)
(*No, the simple fact that it's back to being one Alien running around in the shadows creeping people out doesn't make it good. Being a good film was what made Alien good, not that other thing.)[/QUOTE]
*clears throat* If you would watch the damn movie, in Aliens, the Weyland-Yutani Corporation calls them "xenomorphs", if they say it in the movie, thats the name.
[QUOTE=Membrain;20385025]sadly they wont listen cause they dont know nothing about psycho-sexual terror, they just know "yo the smart gun is pretty fuckin sick"
[editline]04:48PM[/editline]
admittedly though the smart gun is pretty fuckin sick. especially since its just an m60 attached to a steadycam thingy[/QUOTE]
The steadycam thingy is pretty cool.
[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;20365745]
Really, does no one else find it funny that the guy who's dream was to create this,
[img]http://www.treehugger.com/Avatar-Na%27vi.jpg[/img]
A happy forest tribe, worked on this
[img]http://www.solarnavigator.net/films_movies_actors/film_images/Alien_design_artwork_Hrgiger.jpg[/img]
[/QUOTE]
The Alien meets and slaughters the N'avi tribe.
I don't know about you guys but I think that'd be a pretty awesome crossover.
But then again that's what I thought about AVP...
[QUOTE=blah45;20385050]*clears throat* If you would watch the damn movie, in Aliens, the Weyland-Yutani Corporation calls them "xenomorphs", if they say it in the movie, thats the name.[/QUOTE]
I already explained why this is a dumb reasoning. The word xenomorph means alien lifeform. And it is only ever used as a fancy, formal word for such because they have no idea what kind of aliens ripley is talking about.
The exhange goes (at least in spirit):
"Hey, there's aliens on that planet, one of them got on my ship so I blew it up"
"lol aliens don't exist."
"yes they do"
"we lost contact with the planet, maybe there is aliens on it like she said"
"there is, I'm telling you"
"okay you get to go to the planet to see if there's any of your "aliens" "
Not:
"Hey, there's aliens on that planet, one of them got on my ship so I blew it up"
"lol Internecivus Raptus don't exist."
"yes they do"
"we lost contact with the planet, maybe there is Internecivus Raptus on it like she said"
"there is, I'm telling you"
"okay you get to go to the planet to see if there's any of your "Internecivus Raptus" "
[QUOTE=pie_is_good;20385104]The Alien meets the N'avi tribe.
I don't know about you guys but I think that'd be a pretty awesome crossover.
But then again that's what I thought about AVP...[/QUOTE]
That would be pretty fucking sweet.
Watching them blue pussies getting their faces ripped off would make for good entertainment.
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