• Scottish Referendum? 'Better Together'?
    74 replies, posted
On the free uni topic: if Scotland went independent and joined the EU they would be legally obliged to give the same to other EU citizens, including English and Welsh people. I can't see that being financialy viable. Secondly, Scotland can't assume it will get all the oil and gas. Currently the treasury considers it as not part of Scotland and it is naive to think the rest of the union will let it all go to Scotland.
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Scotland doesn't have the population nor independent income to survive. A large portion of Scotland's government spending money comes from taxes from Westminster. What annoys me the most is that the people in my school that are pro-independence their only arguments for seem to be 1) Free Scotland 2) I don't like Tories I feel the fact Scotland has its own parliament to discuss Scottish matters is enough freedom and the Tory argument is ridiculous as the government practically switches every 5 years. I for one will not be voting yes.
Voting no in this thing might be the only time I decide to vote in my life. I need to help counter all the misguided 16 year olds that will blindly vote no because freedom.
[QUOTE=o DefcoN o;42925746]Voting no in this thing might be the only time I decide to vote in my life. I need to help counter all the misguided 16 year olds that will blindly vote no because freedom.[/QUOTE] The SNP's faith in getting a "yes" vote from the younger age groups may be misplaced if you take [URL="http://news.stv.tv/north/239978-thousands-of-scottish-secondary-pupils-vote-no-in-mock-referendum/"]this report[/URL] into account.
[QUOTE=dunkace;42925382]Scotland doesn't have the population nor independent income to survive. A large portion of Scotland's government spending money comes from taxes from Westminster. What annoys me the most is that the people in my school that are pro-independence their only arguments for seem to be 1) Free Scotland 2) I don't like Tories I feel the fact Scotland has its own parliament to discuss Scottish matters is enough freedom and the Tory argument is ridiculous as the government practically switches every 5 years. I for one will not be voting yes.[/QUOTE] Scotland is actually the second best region for spending vs contribution in the UK (when you include oil and gas) - with greater London being the first. If you think Scotland wouldn't survive on its own, you also think the rest of Britain (minus greater London) wouldn't. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_of_the_United_Kingdom_by_GVA_per_capita[/url]
[QUOTE=Native Hunter;42877646]Im all hopped up on Celtic pride, Im scottish, Irish, And maybe Welsh,But I homestly want to see the six celtic nations independant,[/QUOTE] Oh god, its the muh heritage club.
[QUOTE=WeekendWarrior;42926228]The SNP's faith in getting a "yes" vote from the younger age groups may be misplaced if you take [URL="http://news.stv.tv/north/239978-thousands-of-scottish-secondary-pupils-vote-no-in-mock-referendum/"]this report[/URL] into account.[/QUOTE] Just gave this a quick read and this is some good news.
Scotland can have it if they want it. They can have that fat alex salmond roll over their tiny bodies as he engulfes them in a new age of hairy bagpipes and slavery. Most Scottish people I know from gaming say they don't care about Independence and think it's just a silly salmond fantasy.
[QUOTE=Thomo_UK;42927312]Scotland can have it if they want it. They can have that fat alex salmond roll over their tiny bodies as he engulfes them in a new age of hairy bagpipes and slavery. Most Scottish people I know from gaming say they don't care about Independence and think it's just a silly salmond fantasy.[/QUOTE] No you take him.
It's up to the people of Scotland to decide if they want independence. I just hope to god that people who vote yes are doing it for the right reasons and not just to stick it to the English.
I'm for Scottish independence. If the majority of them want it, then they should have it. Democracy.
[QUOTE=Conna;42928767]I'm for Scottish independence. If the majority of them want it, then they should have it. Democracy.[/QUOTE] What I'm primarily worried on is the two votes - the independence vote and the party vote. If independence status is granted then they will have to vote a party. SNP will most likely be voted into power because they're the main icon of the referendum.
[QUOTE=Jonne Bravo;42936277]What I'm primarily worried on is the two votes - the independence vote and the party vote. If independence status is granted then they will have to vote a party. SNP will most likely be voted into power because they're the main icon of the referendum.[/QUOTE] Why? There's a little under a year to the referendum. And even if Scotland votes for independence, it won't become an independent nation for some time after that. There are hundreds of legal issues to deal with first. Public opinion is like a see-saw in this country. The party that is good in the public eye now, may very well be the bad one come the first elections for an independent Scotland. Look at the Tories now. The majority of England voted in favour of them. But now they're not viewed in a good light.
[QUOTE=Bad)-(and;42936382] Look at the Tories now. The majority of England voted in favour of them. But now they're not viewed in a good light.[/QUOTE] The majority of England did not vote the Tories in, they just failed to vote at all and so the Tories won seats by default if anything, but even then that did not get them into power, it was Nick Clegg and his spineless joke of a party who jumped into bed with them, that's what did it. But that's going off track a bit.
You cant win seats "by default". What are you even talking about? Every Tory constituency is so because they recieved more votes than any other party. Thats how our voting system works. Like every other in the world.
[QUOTE=Bad)-(and;42945693]You cant win seats "by default". What are you even talking about? Every Tory constituency is so because they recieved more votes than any other party. Thats how our voting system works. Like every other in the world.[/QUOTE] By Default, read that as. Over 35% of the nation sat at home instead of voting and those that did vote failed to outright vote the Tories into power ( hence the Hung parliament), whats not to understand about that. Simply put, the deciding voters in England didn't get of their arse / Abstained, so we ended up with the Tories because they used the Librals, the 35% who abstained for what ever reason had they bothered to vote indications suggest that it would have put labor back in (as far as i recall the articles anyway). But i digress this is not really the thread for the voting debate.
[QUOTE=Conna;42928767]I'm for Scottish independence. If the majority of them want it, then they should have it. Democracy.[/QUOTE] Yes, but only if they know they're making the right choice an not just for "muh heritage" or to stick to us evil, oppressive, slave-driving, colonial masters bastard english
[QUOTE=PelPix123;43030347]The Scottish independence movement is an amazing idea. Over time, the political spectrum in England has shifted so far right that even the Labour party is internationally considered Centre-Right. This unnatural shift in the spectrum didn't happen in Scotland. It's still a working and natural democracy there with varying political opinions, unlike England. They need to separate ASAP. Scottish independence isn't even about nationalism anymore. It's primarily about multipartisan dismantling of the NHS and other right wing politics that have infected the English "left" to which Scotland is vehemently opposed.[/QUOTE] Where are you getting this from? Please source those claims.
As long as the UK doesn't let them run away with the all the gas/oil, there is not much point other then the nationalism.
please just go... take wales, northern ireland and the north of england with you
[QUOTE=toxicpiano;43035308]please just go... take wales, northern ireland and the north of england with you[/QUOTE] just spent my student loan on crack, cheers
[QUOTE=Kondor;43035316]just spent my student loan on crack, cheers[/QUOTE] why should london fund your crack habit? [editline]1st December 2013[/editline] when i say north of england btw, i mean everywhere north of the m25
[QUOTE=Native Hunter;42877646]Im all hopped up on Celtic pride, Im scottish, Irish, And maybe Welsh,But I homestly want to see the six celtic nations independant,[/QUOTE] yeah i'd be really proud to live in an independent shithole
I'm pretty sure you can keep your cultural identity without compromising your entire government and economics to do it. Scotland simply just can't stand on it's own, look at how much it relies directly on Britain. Hell, things would be much worse because they would have to switch over to the euro.
[QUOTE=ExplosiveCheese;43035724]I'm pretty sure you can keep your cultural identity without compromising your entire government and economics to do it. Scotland simply just can't stand on it's own, look at how much it relies directly on Britain. Hell, things would be much worse because they would have to switch over to the euro.[/QUOTE] Scotland is the 2nd best economy in Britain - with Greater London being 1st. We don't rely on RUK any more than anyone else - we actually contribute.
lol we have no tuition fees because london pays for them and our economy is growing because it is supported by london
[QUOTE=Kondor;43039304]lol we have no tuition fees because london pays for them and our economy is growing because it is supported by london[/QUOTE] [b]Everywhere[/b] in the UK is more subsidised by Greater London than Scotland. Aberdeen has the second highest GVA/capita in the whole of the UK.
[QUOTE=PelPix123;43039336]Those are actually both quite wrong. Your economy is not supported by London, and you have no tuition fees because your government mandated their illegality, and it's paid for by the relatively high taxes in Scotland. You also have lower income inequality.[/QUOTE] They're paid for by British taxes, not Scottish.
[QUOTE=PelPix123;43047729]Not true, actually. They're barely subsidized by British taxes--less than any other part of the UK--and the amount decreases with inflation.[/QUOTE] I'd like to know where you're getting all these facts from.
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