• My girlfriend of three years just confessed to me that she used to be a man
    913 replies, posted
Hey guys sex is determined by what body parts have hair. Don't try to dispute me I have proof somewhere. Totally didn't just type this on a whim. [editline]17th September 2012[/editline] In all seriousness though so far I've seen people who claim that a transgender person can never be the sex they want to be have used a great variety of reasons like ability to reproduce, or chromosomes, or what they are born as. So far I find Feel's reasoning of what they are born as to be the dumbest of them all. It implies that even if we reached a point of medical advancement where we could create fully functional reproductive organs he would still believe that some sort of sacred pact will always lock someone into the sex they were born as.
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;37699904]Now did you pull this from a medical journal or from your ass? [editline]17th September 2012[/editline] That's why we use surgery.[/QUOTE] Because obviously surgery is clearly the same as physiologically changing (hint: it isn't) [editline]17th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=VIOLATION_SNG;37700088]You don't even understand what Transphobia is. Transphobia isn't just being scared of us. "Transphobia (or less commonly cissexism, transprejudice, and trans-misogyny, the latter referring to transphobia directed toward trans women, or trans-misandry, referring to transphobia directed toward trans men) is a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards transsexualism and transsexual or transgender people, based on the expression of their internal gender identity (see Phobia – terms indicating prejudice or class discrimination). Whether intentional or not, transphobia can have severe consequences for the target of the negative attitude. Many trans people also experience homophobia from people who associate their gender identity with homosexuality. Attacking someone on the basis of a perception of their gender identity rather the perception of their sexual orientation is known as "trans bashing", as opposed to "gay bashing""[/QUOTE] Do I have transphobia if I hate people like you who try to shove your sexuality down our throats and shit yourself when I don't pander to you because you consider yourself a special snowflake? I'm completely fine with trans people who aren't dickheads about it though.
[QUOTE=Chubbs;37700488]Because obviously surgery is clearly the same as physiologically changing (hint: it isn't) [editline]17th September 2012[/editline] Do I have transphobia if I hate people like you who try to shove your sexuality down our throats and shit yourself when I don't pander to you because you consider yourself a special snowflake? I'm completely fine with trans people who aren't dickheads about it though.[/QUOTE] I don't consider myself a special anything. I consider myself a woman and that's it. You however, can't grasp that fact and instead ignore all the facts we show you and just bash us to hell. I'm a "dickhead" because you blatantly ignore everything we say and just continue spewing your ignorant insults.
[QUOTE=Chubbs;37700488]Do I have transphobia if I hate people like you who try to shove your sexuality down our throats and shit yourself when I don't pander to you because you consider yourself a special snowflake? I'm completely fine with trans people who aren't dickheads about it though.[/QUOTE] Gender identity =/= sexuality. And it's not a case of being special, it's about being accepted as the gender we believe we are because we can't be a "real" girl or guy to the minds of bigots.
[QUOTE=Chubbs;37700488]Because obviously surgery is clearly the same as physiologically changing (hint: it isn't)[/QUOTE] pretty sure surgery is the method of physiologically changing [QUOTE=Chubbs;37700488]Do I have transphobia if I hate people like you who try to shove your sexuality down our throats and shit yourself when I don't pander to you because you consider yourself a special snowflake? I'm completely fine with trans people who aren't dickheads about it though.[/QUOTE] yes. yes, it does make you transphobic.
[QUOTE=Chubbs;37700488]Because obviously surgery is clearly the same as physiologically changing (hint: it isn't)[/QUOTE] I had no idea that the removal/addition of a penis was not a change in bodily function, and therefore a change in physiology. You learn something new every day.
[QUOTE=Chubbs;37700488]Because obviously surgery is clearly the same as physiologically changing (hint: it isn't)[/QUOTE] You do realize a vagina is essentially an inverted penis to start with right? We all start off as female in the womb until we further develop. Literally, an FtM penis is just a yanked out vagina and other-area skin removal to touch it up to make it look like a penis. Likewise, an MtF vagina is just inverting the penis back up into the body, essentially.
grrr people who get skin grafts after horrific burns disgust me, why cant you just live with REALITY and stop being such a BABY!
[QUOTE=Chubbs;37700488]Because obviously surgery is clearly the same as physiologically changing (hint: it isn't) [editline]17th September 2012[/editline] It is difficult not to be dickheads about it when the general population is the one shoving their mentality down the throats of transgender people to begin with. Do I have transphobia if I hate people like you who try to shove your sexuality down our throats and shit yourself when I don't pander to you because you consider yourself a special snowflake? I'm completely fine with trans people who aren't dickheads about it though.[/QUOTE] You are complaining about a group of unjustly severely beaten up people fighting back, while them being a very small minority. Shoving their mentality down your throat on regular basis is virtually the only way of making the general population break out of their locked mindsets and actually give the minority the regular freedoms they were supposed to have to begin with, otherwise people will keep walking over them. The only oppressed minority which should exist are the oppressors.
[QUOTE=genkaz92;37700635]You are complaining about a group of unjustly severely beaten up people fighting back, while them being a very small minority. Shoving their mentality down your throat on regular basis is virtually the only way of making the general population break out of their locked mindsets and actually give the minority the regular freedoms they were supposed to have to begin with, otherwise people will keep walking over them. The only oppressed minority which should exist are the oppressors.[/QUOTE] Uhh, so I'm meant to accept people shoving shit down my throat in case I happen to be the lowest common denominator who can't grasp ideas that aren't yelled at me?
The only thing that LGBT people ever asked for, was to have exactly the same basic human rights as everyone else. Unfortunately that is still not the case, and for as long as that is not the case, defined measures are necessary.
is this seriously debate if she wants to be a fucking girl then let her. the only person who should be worried about being directly affected is OP, and he would be a fool to stop being with her after this. OP you're not fucking gay [I]if you thought she was a girl this whole time you idiot[/I]
Also I said that I have no problem with people different to me as long as they aren't dicks about it like VIOLATION-SNG.
[QUOTE=Primigenes;37700677]What the fuck is with this comparison?[/QUOTE] calm down bro if you want to simmer down for a second i'll explain it in layman's terms
[QUOTE=genkaz92;37700696]The only thing that LGBT people ever asked for, was to have exactly the same basic human rights as everyone else. Unfortunately that is still not the case, and for as long as that is not the case, defined measures are necessary.[/QUOTE] Because pissing me off is clearly going to get their government to give the equal rights.
[QUOTE=KingKombat;37700711]is this seriously debate if she wants to be a fucking girl then let her. the only person who should be worried about being directly affected is OP, and he would be a fool to stop being with her after this. OP you're not fucking gay [I]if you thought she was a girl this whole time you idiot[/I][/QUOTE] Don't worry that was already settled pages ago. He's not leaving her. Now it's just a debate against one side vs another.
[QUOTE=KingKombat;37700711]is this seriously debate if she wants to be a fucking girl then let her. the only person who should be worried about being directly affected is OP, and he would be a fool to stop being with her after this. OP you're not fucking gay [I]if you thought she was a girl this whole time you idiot[/I][/QUOTE] Whats occurring here is people are getting angry. So by internet standards, it's a debate.
[QUOTE=Chubbs;37700488]Because obviously surgery is clearly the same as physiologically changing (hint: it isn't) [editline]17th September 2012[/editline] Do I have transphobia if I hate people like you who try to shove your sexuality down our throats and shit yourself when I don't pander to you because you consider yourself a special snowflake? I'm completely fine with trans people who aren't dickheads about it though.[/QUOTE] kill yourself [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Chubbs;37700694]Uhh, so I'm meant to accept people shoving shit down my throat in case I happen to be the lowest common denominator who can't grasp ideas that aren't yelled at me?[/QUOTE] Not necessarily, you are not really being attacked or oppressed right now, you are the one who appears to be a part of one majority or the other. Even if you cannot accept the correct ideas which are supposedly being forced upon you (and they are really not as forced as they are clearly making themselves known) then in the very least you could try not to directly oppose them.
[QUOTE=Chubbs;37700719]Also I said that I have no problem with people different to me as long as they aren't dicks about it like VIOLATION-SNG.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=VIOLATION_SNG;37700550]I don't consider myself a special anything. I consider myself a woman and that's it. [B]You however, can't grasp that fact and instead ignore all the facts we show you and just bash us to hell. [/B][B]I'm a "dickhead" because you blatantly ignore everything we say and just continue spewing your ignorant insults.[/B][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;37700605]You do realize a vagina is essentially an inverted penis to start with right? We all start off as female in the womb until we further develop. Literally, an FtM penis is just a yanked out vagina and other-area skin removal to touch it up to make it look like a penis. Likewise, an MtF vagina is just inverting the penis back up into the body, essentially.[/QUOTE] Note how it doesn't have a reverse mechanism after you leave the womb. Don't start all against me with transphobia please, I personally don't actually care in a positive or a negative way about transgender people at all, I don't hate you people. But, just my $0.02, all the surgery in the world doesn't make you a woman in the end, it is mimicking a woman. And then you have to take hormones and such afterwards to help that mimic as well. It is not [i]being[/i] a woman with the full hormonal system and the reproductive organs (sterile or not) completely there and natural. At least that's the bounds of technology today, when they decide to implant fully working hormone and organ systems in, I'll change my mind. Physically, you are the gender you are born with and surgery as it is now does not change that. Mentally, you may think otherwise, that is why you are a transgender person.
[QUOTE=genkaz92;37700747]Not necessarily, you are not really being attacked or oppressed right now, you are the one who appears to be a part of one majority or the other. Even if you cannot accept the correct ideas which are supposedly being forced upon you (and they are really not as forced as they are clearly making themselves known) then in the very least you could try not to directly oppose them.[/QUOTE] Because I am clearly opposing them (hint: I'm fucking not, when did I say that I believe that they don't deserve rights?).
[QUOTE=Chubbs;37700729]Because pissing me off is clearly going to get their government to give the equal rights.[/QUOTE] One of the main reasons why it is pissing you off is either due to ignorance, phobia, and or some type of other locked conditioned mindset set by a society (directly or indirectly), and changing/transforming these mindsets without bringing people out of their comfort zone is virtually impossible.
[QUOTE=Chubbs;37700719]Also I said that I have no problem with people different to me as long as they aren't dicks about it like VIOLATION-SNG.[/QUOTE] Oh god it's like a kettle being called black by the literal color black.
[QUOTE=eurocracy;37700762]Note how it doesn't have a reverse mechanism after you leave the womb. Don't start all against me with transphobia please, I personally don't actually care in a positive or a negative way about transgender people at all, I don't hate you people. But, just my $0.02, all the surgery in the world doesn't make you a woman in the end, it is mimicking a woman. And then you have to take hormones and such afterwards to help that mimic as well. It is not [i]being[/i] a woman with the full hormonal system and the reproductive organs (sterile or not) completely there and natural. At least that's the bounds of technology today, when they decide to implant fully working hormone and organ systems in, I'll change my mind. Physically, you are the gender you are born with and surgery as it is now does not change that. Mentally, you may think otherwise, that is why you are a transgender person.[/QUOTE] Actually you are given hormones before getting SRS, and you have to be on them for quite a bit. It's supposed to assist in the surgery in the long run. But honestly. [QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;37680575]Do you even know what female hormones do? - They decrease your libido and increase your sex drive to that of a woman's. - Some ocular changes (i.e. how women can see colors brighter) occurs. - You grow breasts, in which the size of them is based on genetics. - Your body hair falls off and is replaced with lighter body hair of a woman's. - Your skin gets softer. - Your body odor and sweat production is changed to that of a woman's. - Veins become less visible. - Fat is redistributed to that of a female's figure. - Muscle development is reduced. - It can assist and change hair/growth. [/QUOTE] That's all a natural process of your body reacting to synthesized natural estrogen. It's not some jedi mind fuckery going on. It feeds the body the right hormones to accomplish the task on its own, all together while assisting in the correction of hormones in the brain. There is a study out there that theorizes the possibility that the brain in transgender folk lacks the proper hormones or has a conflict of both. What you fail to understand is that we don't want to be labeled as the gender we don't believe we are, because it's just a reminder of a mistake that we can't correct that happened in our birth and that's what drives a lot of us to suicide. That's why transgirls say they are true women and transmen say they are true men, because we can't just push a reset button and start our life over again. That and the fact that hormones DO ALL OF THAT.
[QUOTE=KingKombat;37700746]kill yourself[/QUOTE] woah uncalled for
[QUOTE=Chubbs;37700694]Uhh, so I'm meant to accept people shoving shit down my throat in case I happen to be the lowest common denominator who can't grasp ideas that aren't yelled at me?[/QUOTE] "stop shoving X down our throat" is an argument I've only ever seen from people who are in a position unaffected by anything on the matter, telling people who are oppressed/treated unjustly/whatever because of X to stop trying to be accepted by society as normal people aka "oh no this makes me uncomfortable plz stop not being what I want" to put it on terms everyone knows, it's the same way the GOP/Fox News calls anything trying to have normal standards for the majority of working citizens "class warfare" (IE rebuilding the middle class and maintaining workers' unions so that we don't lose minimum wage rights and the right to health care coverage by our workplaces), or people trying to have rights that are considered "not christian values" (IE today's massive movement to make same sex marriage legal) by people who either don't understand the bible or are abusing it due to their own aggressive prejudices "a war on Christianity" the only reason anyone's arguing with you is because you came into a thread talking about trans issues expecting people to not get upset when you start arguing about how they aren't what they want to be seen as because of arbitrary factors. Grow up and look the other way if it's that much of an issue. Nothing will be of any consequence to you so long as you stop seeking out groups of people to get them riled up at you
[QUOTE=Boxbot219;37699904]Now did you pull this from a medical journal or from your ass? [editline]17th September 2012[/editline] That's why we use surgery.[/QUOTE] Also I'm curious if anyone who rated this dumb can provide an actual reason why any of these points are dumb.
[QUOTE=eurocracy;37700762]Note how it doesn't have a reverse mechanism after you leave the womb. Don't start all against me with transphobia please, I personally don't actually care in a positive or a negative way about transgender people at all, I don't hate you people. But, just my $0.02, all the surgery in the world doesn't make you a woman in the end, it is mimicking a woman. And then you have to take hormones and such afterwards to help that mimic as well. It is not [i]being[/i] a woman with the full hormonal system and the reproductive organs (sterile or not) completely there and natural. At least that's the bounds of technology today, when they decide to implant fully working hormone and organ systems in, I'll change my mind. Physically, you are the gender you are born with and surgery as it is now does not change that. Mentally, you may think otherwise, that is why you are a transgender person.[/QUOTE] And now we are once again all the way back at the assumption that your physical sex governs your actual gender. The true essence of gender is currently outside of scientific conception, but what IS within our conception, is the realization that it is not governed by it.
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;37700812]Actually you are given hormones before getting SRS, and you have to be on them for quite a bit. It's supposed to assist in the surgery in the long run. But honestly. That's all a natural process of your body reacting to synthesized natural estrogen. It's not some jedi mind fuckery going on. It feeds the body the right hormones to accomplish the task on its own, all together while assisting in the correction of hormones in the brain. There is a study out there that theorizes the possibility that the brain in transgender folk lacks the proper hormones or has a conflict of both. What you fail to understand is that we don't want to be labeled as the gender we don't believe we are, because it's just a reminder of a mistake that we can't correct that happened in our birth and that's what drives a lot of us to suicide. That's why transgirls are true women and transmen are true men, because we can't just push a reset button and start our life over again.[/QUOTE] To have the correct mental state and such, would you not have to mimic the hormone cycles, I mean, you'd have to do it for the rest of your life I would presume. Your body is being fed different hormones than it is designed to produce, thus different effects. I'd like to see this study, but proving something within the human brain is very very difficult and theories going on about it are very hard to prove likewise. It does make sense, however. The problem that happened with genetics is probably the brain rather than the gender, I would argue. I [I]know[/I] you don't like being labelled as your birth gender, so let me expand on my own view. I wouldn't call you your birth gender, but saying that you don't like it is a reason why transgirls are true women and transmen are true men is not a real explanation. Personally I would use the term 'transgirl' or 'transmen' as it does describe your gender state best. [QUOTE=genkaz92;37700849]And now we are once again all the way back at the assumption that your physical sex governs your actual gender. The true essence of gender is currently outside of scientific conception, but what IS within our conception, is the realization that it is not governed by it.[/QUOTE] You need both to have the final gender, I would claim. Unfortunately for transgender people they cannot fully change gender, only mimic it as best as they can (with current technology, as stated before)
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