Typically teachers will go from gestures to quick drawings to longer poses. If the longest you built up to was five minutes that's a bit odd
i'm an animation student, so we worked backwards from maybe 20 minutes.
@Life on Mars: You need to speed up considerably. Once you get past 10 minutes there's a pretty different approach needed for the drawing. Every final stroke has to be calculated more carefully and should have the values put down. You have pretty much zero stuff going on inside of the outline. I fought long and hard with making my croquis art have any depth and a lot of it has to be with realizing the outline only has one function: closing the form. It's not the thing that's closest to you, it's what's inside the form that's closest to you and thus should get the most attention. You also ought to mark down the extremities - The things at the edge of the paper - So feet, head, elbows, hands, whatever else is the point closest to the border of the paper. It'll save your composition. Of the ones you posted you only have one figure that fits inside the paper!
Do you have a chance to work with pencil? It's a far more forgiving tool compared to ink and coal both of which don't leave any space for errors or guide lines/lines of action. Coal and ink and pens all force you to have very clear and strong lines and you do not master this at all. On the left side of the last figure you posted, count the lines used. It's something well past 20 lines! You could easily have done that entire side of the form in one continuous stroke. It would make it so much more comprehensible!
IMO ink and pens aren't suitable for anything past 10-15 minutes. Considering the pace you'll eventually have anyway. Coal and oil pastels is a lot better for longer studies since you can render things quite beautifully with those if you know how to use them. I'm pretty shit personally, but they're fun tools once you understand their potential.
[QUOTE=lintz;44603867]you had 30-45 minutes to do those?
when i was doing life drawing i had 5 minutes at most, one minute at least, sometimes even 30 seconds.[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah actually on some it was the same as with you
the bottom one was most likely one of the 30 second ones, I never put the times on the paper like I was supposed to.
[editline]21st April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kagrs;44604138]@Life on Mars: You need to speed up considerably. Once you get past 10 minutes there's a pretty different approach needed for the drawing. Every final stroke has to be calculated more carefully and should have the values put down. You have pretty much zero stuff going on inside of the outline. I fought long and hard with making my croquis art have any depth and a lot of it has to be with realizing the outline only has one function: closing the form. It's not the thing that's closest to you, it's what's inside the form that's closest to you and thus should get the most attention. You also ought to mark down the extremities - The things at the edge of the paper - So feet, head, elbows, hands, whatever else is the point closest to the border of the paper. It'll save your composition. Of the ones you posted you only have one figure that fits inside the paper!
Do you have a chance to work with pencil? It's a far more forgiving tool compared to ink and coal both of which don't leave any space for errors or guide lines/lines of action. Coal and ink and pens all force you to have very clear and strong lines and you do not master this at all. On the left side of the last figure you posted, count the lines used. It's something well past 20 lines! You could easily have done that entire side of the form in one continuous stroke. It would make it so much more comprehensible!
IMO ink and pens aren't suitable for anything past 10-15 minutes. Considering the pace you'll eventually have anyway. Coal and oil pastels is a lot better for longer studies since you can render things quite beautifully with those if you know how to use them. I'm pretty shit personally, but they're fun tools once you understand their potential.[/QUOTE]
Well thing is I'm not entirely sure what ones were the 30-40 min ones and which ones where the super fast 30 seconds to 5 mins, I basically have all of them piled up and there is a lot of them obviously because there's a bunch of the really quick ones in there.
I know there is at least two in which I have more than just outlines but there's honestly just stacks of stuff including things from printmaking and photography.
[editline]21st April 2014[/editline]
I'll try find them all and see if I can put them all together
[editline]21st April 2014[/editline]
I'll try find them all and see if I can put them all together, my phones out of battery at the moment though.
[editline]21st April 2014[/editline]
[IMG]http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/Lf751/C360_2014-04-21-14-22-10-954.jpg[/IMG]
Here's the pile of them, gotta keep my phone connected to the charger.
[editline]21st April 2014[/editline]
The ones that aren't on the white thicker paper are definitely the 30 second ones, not sure the times on the white ones, Like I said I never bothered putting the time on them. :downs:
[editline]21st April 2014[/editline]
Here's one where we had to rub away
[IMG]http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/Lf751/PHOTO_20140421_142951.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Life On Mars;44603618]
[IMG]http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk76/Lf751/C360_2014-04-21-10-22-35-498.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
I like this one, it has some really nice fluidity and weight.
[QUOTE=lintz;44603867]you had 30-45 minutes to do those?
when i was doing life drawing i had 5 minutes at most, one minute at least, sometimes even 30 seconds.[/QUOTE]
That's a very dumb way to learn figure drawing.
[QUOTE=Lilyo;44604945]That's a very dumb way to learn figure drawing.[/QUOTE]
It's a very common way to get gestures down. I did tons of those short ones from 30 second to 5/10 minute gesture drawings. Don't knock it til you tried it.
He's talking about only ever doing a maximum of five minutes per figure or less.
[editline]22nd April 2014[/editline]
Which apparently wasn't what lintz was confined to as per his later post so idk why he said that in the first place
I might do a little tutorial on how I make grass, would you guys want that?
[QUOTE=Kagrs;44604997]It's a very common way to get gestures down. I did tons of those short ones from 30 second to 5/10 minute gesture drawings. Don't knock it til you tried it.[/QUOTE]
Why the fuck would you learn gestures before learning anatomy. You're just guessing at that point and it's a dumb way to start out.
[img_thumb]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8557473/facepunch/Drawing/FromDownHere.jpg[/img_thumb]
[img_thumb]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8557473/facepunch/Drawing/sanfranhil.jpg[/img_thumb]
Quick concept stuff. Had to do the backgrounds in photoshop, because like fuck do I have the patience to waist that much ink for a concept.
[QUOTE=Lilyo;44605563]Why the fuck would you learn gestures before learning anatomy. You're just guessing at that point and it's a dumb way to start out.[/QUOTE]
i couldn't tell you. i can only assume that as animation students we were more focussed on the gesture side of it rather than using the life drawing sessions to accurately recreate what we were seeing.
Regardless, it's still a dumb way to learn to draw figures. You can't do successful gestures unless you first know how to draw the actual figure correctly, hence why you should always start with longer poses and studies first and then move to shorter ones and gesture studies once you grasp the basics. Even doing just one or two very long studies will help you tremendously with realizing how the figure is built and how the parts all work in relation to each other. Just looking through your deviantart quickly makes it clear that you've never really learned how to draw figures. It's a common mistake most people make if the teachers don't know what they're doing.
[QUOTE=Lilyo;44605994]Regardless, it's still a dumb way to learn to draw figures. You can't do successful gestures unless you first know how to draw the actual figure correctly, hence why you should always start with longer poses and studies first and then move to shorter ones and gesture studies once you grasp the basics. Even doing just one or two very long studies will help you tremendously with realizing how the figure is built and how the parts all work in relation to each other. Just looking through your deviantart quickly makes it clear that you've never really learned how to draw figures. It's a common mistake most people make if the teachers don't know what they're doing.[/QUOTE]
That's not what I've heard or been taught really. Doing good gestural drawings is a good way of getting your hand used to the medium, loosening your self up, and finding angles. Generally I've done say a few 30second poses a few 1min, a few 5min, and then a few long one like 20min+
Well I'm telling you that that is a flawed way of trying to learn to draw figures. You're basically practicing drawing figures without knowing any anatomy, so you'll be practicing incorrectly. Gesture studies are all about movement and momentum involving the figure, and you can't be expected to properly understand the movement of the figure if you have no idea about its anatomy.
I mean I suppose I think you should be doing both the whole way through but I think starting of nitpicking the details of anatomy is a far less effective way then simplifying the shapes of the the figure into basic shapes. At least that's how I feel I've improved the most.
You're not nitpicking by doing studies, you're spending time learning how the actual figure works instead of guessing its shape during a 30 second or 1 minute frame time. Gesture studies are supposed to help you understand how to position your figure on the canvas and move it within the environment, not learn how to draw the actual figure.
[QUOTE=omarfr;44606237]That's not what I've heard or been taught really. Doing good gestural drawings is a good way of getting your hand used to the medium, loosening your self up, and finding angles. Generally I've done say a few 30second poses a few 1min, a few 5min, and then a few long one like 20min+[/QUOTE]
This is exactly what my course has been doing for years. I think its a lot better to build up to something in this way, its basicly a warmup and honestly without doing the first few 30second to 1 min poses my finals for the day turn out like shit.
[editline]21st April 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lilyo;44606457]You're not nitpicking by doing studies, you're spending time learning how the actual figure works instead of guessing its shape during a 30 second or 1 minute frame time. Gesture studies are supposed to help you understand how to position your figure on the canvas and move it within the environment, not learn how to draw the actual figure.[/QUOTE]
The problem here is that you shouldn't be guessing, you should be good enough to recognize the shapes in this amount of time and also be able to reconstruct what you see, not what you think you see.
he's not saying it's bad to do quick sketches, he's saying it's a problem when that's all you do.
[QUOTE=Mr cake fingers;44606704]
The problem here is that you shouldn't be guessing, you should be good enough to recognize the shapes in this amount of time and also be able to reconstruct what you see, not what you think you see.[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about when you first start learning figure drawing. By the time you're doing gesture studies you should already be able to draw a proper figure without reference since the whole point of gesture studies is to use the model as a quick idea for a reference.
hey guys it's me lilyo here with another very strong and divisive opinion:
always do this. never do that. it is a rule
[editline]21st April 2014[/editline]
hey guys it's me chesty here with a message
draw some shit
[QUOTE=ChestyMcGee;44606795]hey guys it's me lilyo here with another very strong and divisive opinion:
always do this. never do that. it is a rule
[editline]21st April 2014[/editline]
hey guys it's me chesty here with a message
draw some shit[/QUOTE]
sorreh <3
[img_thumb]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8557473/facepunch/Drawing/Untitled-2.jpg[/img_thumb]
Gonna be working with some of my schoolmates to make a game during the summer. Right now it's just me and an artist buddy of mine trying to figure out what we're gonna make the game look like, so I put this together yesterday while I had some downtime. (I'm aware of the perspective errors, didn't pay enough attention to my grid)
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8TDVRLo.jpg[/IMG]
We're going for an 80's action movie/sci fi theme. Think Robocop meets Judge Dredd. Though I need to add more sci fi elements to this one. I tried a color pass but I wasn't too happy with it. I'm not sure if I want to keep working it up or just let it be a practice piece to help me establish what kind of style I want to go for and just move on to another piece.
I didn't really know where else to post this...
[IMG_thumb]https://lh6.ggpht.com/84jwKX_ThWChNoPenrDoh1aUKRWTxII7tIRQyXZrnEEEQYMVQHNmaA4y_tt4l2gmGUY=h900-rw[/IMG_thumb]
I just released this puzzle game yesterday. Please check it out if you have an Android device!
[URL="https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.peternwerner.iagogame"]IAGO - Flip the Dots[/URL]
You tap dots to flip them from colored to grey or vice versa, and dots that are connected by a line flip with each other. The goal is to get the whole board colored.
[QUOTE=The Vman;44607363]Gonna be working with some of my schoolmates to make a game during the summer. Right now it's just me and an artist buddy of mine trying to figure out what we're gonna make the game look like, so I put this together yesterday while I had some downtime. (I'm aware of the perspective errors, didn't pay enough attention to my grid)
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8TDVRLo.jpg[/IMG]
We're going for an 80's action movie/sci fi theme. Think Robocop meets Judge Dredd. Though I need to add more sci fi elements to this one. I tried a color pass but I wasn't too happy with it. I'm not sure if I want to keep working it up or just let it be a practice piece to help me establish what kind of style I want to go for and just move on to another piece.[/QUOTE]
Maybe it's just me, but the muzzle flashes doesn't seem to be casting much light. I see a little bit of it on the one guy's face, but almost nothing from the pistol.
[QUOTE=The Vman;44607363]Gonna be working with some of my schoolmates to make a game during the summer. Right now it's just me and an artist buddy of mine trying to figure out what we're gonna make the game look like, so I put this together yesterday while I had some downtime. (I'm aware of the perspective errors, didn't pay enough attention to my grid)
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8TDVRLo.jpg[/IMG]
We're going for an 80's action movie/sci fi theme. Think Robocop meets Judge Dredd. Though I need to add more sci fi elements to this one. I tried a color pass but I wasn't too happy with it. I'm not sure if I want to keep working it up or just let it be a practice piece to help me establish what kind of style I want to go for and just move on to another piece.[/QUOTE]
i like the style you're going for, and tbh i think this would be best left in b/w. gives it a nice atmosphere. though i agree, i'm not getting a very strong sci/fi vibe. film noir was my first guess
[IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/W07qBR.png[/IMG]
just a stupid pencil sketch. I need to learn gestures
[QUOTE=Lilyo;44606330]Well I'm telling you that that is a flawed way of trying to learn to draw figures. You're basically practicing drawing figures without knowing any anatomy, so you'll be practicing incorrectly. Gesture studies are all about movement and momentum involving the figure, and you can't be expected to properly understand the movement of the figure if you have no idea about its anatomy.[/QUOTE]
The thing is probably not many art students have anatomy teachers - they have life drawing teachers (chances are they aren't amazing artists either, or why would they be teaching beginners life drawing)
So "learning to draw figures" is not what is happening, and isn't even the goal, they're teaching how to draw from observation. The idea of doing gestures in that context is to make the student get used to working with the figure as a whole from the very beginning of each drawing. Understanding the mechanics of what you're drawing doesn't even come in to it in a class like that. The students are only drawing figures because it's a classical fine arty subject and who wants to do endless still life drawings
Right, which is why I said that gesture studies won't help you understand how to properly draw a figure?
But this isn't entirely what I'm talking about. Even at my school i see a lot of teachers doing quick gesture studies and shorter poses from the beginning instead of focusing on anatomy and shape, and often the results are fucking terrible. I've been in 3 different drawing classes so far and I've observed a few others on my own time, and I keep seeing teachers not realizing that a student who doesn't understand how to effectively portray a figure won't be helped much from doing gesture studies or short poses. The first class I was in the teacher treated the drawings as a final art piece as opposed to a practice piece, and focused more on criticizing the appeal of the drawing rather than the actual technical skill regarding the figure. It certainly didn't help me improve at all, and most of the students in the class who didn't already know how to draw figures well didn't show any improvement by the end of the semester. The second two classes were much better since we only focused on longer poses (20, 40, 60) with only short 5 minute in the beginning as warm up. Even if you're in high school or don't have a properly trained teacher you can always learn figure drawing on your own at home very easily. My point is just that you shouldn't rely on those quick studies you do as the basis of how to construct figures. You'll just start developing a lot of bad habits that way and probably will never learn proper anatomy and figure drawing. And I'm talking specifically about learning figure drawing, and not just practicing drawing in general.
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