[img]http://puu.sh/d7jZD/0dd88323ce.jpg[/img]
idk first time doing this digitally
took forever cuz not used to mouse
i want a tablet
Don't do it digital if you have to use a mouse
there's really no point at all
[QUOTE=MakoSkyDub;46585050]Don't do it digital if you have to use a mouse
there's really no point at all[/QUOTE]
There are people in my class that can draw really well with a mouse. There's one guy that's so good, you'd never guess it was done with a mouse. His work is of industry quality. Seriously, you'd be jealous of his skills - but not his carpel tunnel.
I wouldn't just give up just because you have a mouse, work with what you have - how do you expect to get anywhere in life if you give up because of something so materialistic?
I'm not saying to stick with the mouse forever, just don't listen to Mako. You should get a tablet though. Save up for a Wacom Intuos model - it'll last a lot longer and give you less headaches than a monoprice.
"it's possible to do it that way, even though it might damage your physical wellbeing, not to mention you can't work to acceptable industry schedules. possessions, man, fuck possessions~ if you have a mouse use a mouse, not a sketchbook and pencil, for some reason. don't listen to mako. but he's right, get a tablet."
You never seemed to take into account what position he might be in, what if he can't afford a tablet?
You always sound so negative so I wanted to bring some positivity to your point incase you damaged his motivation. Jesus man lighten up.
"I put quotation marks around my silly paraphrasing to demonstrate how superior my argument is to yours and just how stupid you are."
Get off your high horse, dawg
He is right though. Tablets are pretty cheap all things considered and the muscle memory you develop with mouse and tablet is totally different. Where tablet and pens are similar mouse is entirely seperate and makes it 200 times harder to learn the same basics as any other method since you have to fight with the tools to get them to do what you want. You dont have to stop but if anyone is using a mouse to actually try to imrpove at digital art they would be far better served by working on paper till they can save up for a tablet.
i always imagined that it would be easier to work with illustrator and other vector-based programs using a mouse, rather than trying to paint with actual photoshop brushes. you can fake the variations in pressure sensitivity with the pen tool, but you won't get the feel and efficiency of a digital painter using a tablet if you approach it in the same way they do.
[QUOTE=Eric95;46589408]self portrait??
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ZRYZA2R.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
idk u tell me
[QUOTE=Wickerman123;46586394]You never seemed to take into account what position he might be in, what if he can't afford a tablet?[/QUOTE]
A sketchbook
a pencil
like I said
[QUOTE=Wickerman123;46586394]You always sound so negative so I wanted to bring some positivity to your point incase you damaged his motivation. Jesus man lighten up.[/QUOTE]
I am perfectly relaxed lol never doubt that
yah I was negative (well, honest) about the mouse, not about him
I didn't say YOU'RE SHIT
If you want to bring some positivity to a point fine but don't give him the wrong advice just for the sake of opposing me?
Seriously just don't use a mouse, it's not a good idea, simple as that
[QUOTE=MakoSkyDub;46590272]A sketchbook
[/QUOTE]
yeah totally
if you dont have a sketchbook just make one
[t]http://i.imgur.com/LT7cgrq.jpg[/t]
[URL="http://imgur.com/a/FZrIO"]~random wip pictures and stuff~[/URL]
Nice segue :v:
and cool book, love the idea of making your own
now i have to just go buy a sketchbook and sketch there cause i don't want to ruin this one :->
[QUOTE=MakoSkyDub;46590272]Seriously just don't use a mouse, it's not a good idea, simple as that[/QUOTE]
It's exactly this attitude you have towards things, that there are definite rights and wrongs that makes people go against you.
You're telling people what is the right way to do things, and what is wrong. That's now how it works. The mouse is a tool that is fully useable to draw and paint with, just like you make finger and foot paintings.
It's not a prefered standard, and using a tablet or pen and paper will in most cases provide better results and be better for learning, but it's by no means a requirement and a must.
The narrow minded attitude is what bugs people, instead of giving advice and guidance, you're trying to tell people what is right and what is wrong.
You can tell people that they should consider doing something else without telling them that they are doing "the wrong thing".
cbf being touchy-feely with advice to be honest with you
Just take it or leave it don't whinge about it
if I said don't use that spoon to slice your bread use a knife instead, is that being narrow minded? yes it's possible to cut it with a spoon or a spatula or some bullshit, but that's no reason to justify doing so. Just use the RIGHT tool for the job, not the WRONG tool, [b]unless you have a specific reason or result in mind.[/b] Otherwise it's black and white.
I'm not saying "don't use a mouse" because I think it's wrong in some weird high and mighty moral sense. When I say don't use a mouse, it's because there's no reason to, and loads of reasons not to. And it's obvious enough that I don't feel the need to expand upon it. It may seem like a foreign concept to you but some people don't like wasting time writing long posts when there's no need
but the spoon better channels my bread carving creativity
I wanna stop lurking for a sec and remind you mako that limitations such as the mentioned are sometimes, if not always a great catalyst for creativity. You cannot compare it to slicing bread, that isn't an artistic endeavour (for me anyway) and is only a practical one.
[QUOTE=MakoSkyDub;46592395]cbf being touchy-feely with advice to be honest with you
Just take it or leave it don't whinge about it
if I said don't use that spoon to slice your bread use a knife instead, is that being narrow minded? yes it's possible to cut it with a spoon or a spatula or some bullshit, but that's no reason to justify doing so. Just use the RIGHT tool for the job, not the WRONG tool, [b]unless you have a specific reason or result in mind.[/b] Otherwise it's black and white.
I'm not saying "don't use a mouse" because I think it's wrong in some weird high and mighty moral sense. When I say don't use a mouse, it's because there's no reason to, and loads of reasons not to. And it's obvious enough that I don't feel the need to expand upon it. It may seem like a foreign concept to you but some people don't like wasting time writing long posts when there's no need[/QUOTE]
You don't use a spoon to slice bread, because that won't slice it, it will break it. That's looking for a specific result, and to get that specific result you need a specific tool. You can draw with a mouse, a tablet and a pencil, they will all do the job, and just as well with the right technique.
Making art is not that black and white. The fact that you're saying that using a mouse is wrong is to me quite laughable. You're putting up limits and rules on art, what can and what can't be done, what is right and what is wrong. That's not definitions that exists in art unless you're looking for a specific result.
The mouse is a fully viable and functional tool for creating, and learning art. It is not the one that will be the easiest to learn, nor the easiest to use, it will cause a lot of struggle that can be deemed unnecessary if you're only trying to learn how to draw in general without anything specific in mind. That doesn't mean it's wrong, it just means it's probably a better idea to use a different tool if you want more control and less struggles when creating art.
Percieving tools, techniques and approaches in art in a "black and white" manner would be what I would define as "wrong". There are optimal (subjectively so) ways to learning art at a professional level in order to make commercial products of art in order to pay the bills, but how to achieve success on a commercial basis should not be confused with being the right way to learn and make art. Art is not about technical competence and knowledge, it just helps in getting your visions across to the viewer, or if nothing else, grab their attention for a bit.
If you don't feel like expanding on your reasoning for giving advice, leaving your advice as crass words telling people what they should and shouldn't do, then don't post your advice please. There is no reason to come across as hostile and unhelpful just because you can't be arsed to explain your point of view. It's not helpful to anyone.
I think what needs to be said when giving advice is the context you're giving advice for. If you're talking about art in its broadest sense, then a mouse will do fine. If you're wanting to be a concept artist making digital paintings in Photoshop, you're probably not going to be able to work as a professional if you're using a mouse to paint.
Seriously a lot of these arguments could be avoided if people contextualised their advice.
I like how amid all of your spazzy semantics you do agree that not using a mouse is the better option but you still want to argue the point at great length on some subjectivity/objectivity tangent. If your problem is a personal one just don't bother, we have demonstrated many times in these petty disputes that I'm not going to change how I post to avoid upsetting you
[QUOTE=dgg;46596568]Art is not about technical competence and knowledge, it just helps in getting your visions across to the viewer, or if nothing else, grab their attention for a bit.[/QUOTE]
This really shows how clueless you are about art. This point has been raised before, you really shouldn't give people advice or expound upon aspects of something that you aren't good at yourself. If you tell people how to draw or paint or anything else that you don't know much about, you're likely to damage their progress by giving them the wrong idea about various things.
[QUOTE=dgg;46596568]If you don't feel like expanding on your reasoning for giving advice, leaving your advice as crass words telling people what they should and shouldn't do, then don't post your advice please. There is no reason to come across as hostile and unhelpful just because you can't be arsed to explain your point of view. It's not helpful to anyone.[/QUOTE]
the format advice comes in doesn't matter, the message is the same no matter how I word it. I'm usually pretty succinct and I think everyone is used to that. I'm not generally hostile unless you choose to project that onto my posts. I don't enjoy saying this but if you're posting here, there's a decent chance I'm more advanced in making art than you are, either I've been doing it for longer or I've worked harder or whatever the case may be. A lot of people here are just starting out. so regardless of what you think about me the advice I give is probably sound, and if it conflicts with an idea you have about something then that idea was probably incorrect or less than ideal. It's just an experience thing, your understanding changes a lot as you get better.
the dude knows using a mouse is not ideal. he SAID he wanted a tablet. There's no reason to explain about not using the mouse, it's already not what he wants to be using. Since he ultimately wants to be on a tablet, it's much better for him to avoid digital and just draw on paper until he can transition straight to a tablet with no uncomfortable in-between tool. I said that in the most succinct way I could, and if he didn't get why I was saying that he could have asked and I would have expanded, or somebody else in the meantime like Rhenae in this case. no art facism, no hostility, none of your soap opera bullshit so long as you aren't here.
[QUOTE=MakoSkyDub;46597275]
the format advice comes in doesn't matter, the message is the same no matter how I word it. I'm usually pretty succinct and I think everyone is used to that. I'm not generally hostile unless you choose to project that onto my posts. I don't enjoy saying this but if you're posting here, there's a decent chance I'm more advanced in making art than you are, either I've been doing it for longer or I've worked harder or whatever the case may be. A lot of people here are just starting out. so regardless of what you think about me the advice I give is probably sound, and if it conflicts with an idea you have about something then that idea was probably incorrect or less than ideal. It's just an experience thing, your understanding changes a lot as you get better.
[/QUOTE]
tbh I can't recall you posting art ever so I can't say whether I agree that you're 'more advanced in making art' than everybody here (or the new people posting here, or whatever your point was?)
[editline]29th November 2014[/editline]
sorry, that sounded rude. I just meant to say that everybody else I can think of who gives criticism here has a demonstrable level of skill, whereas I haven't seen any of your work at all. That's not to say that level of usable skill is necessary to give criticism - I was giving helpful advice based on theory long before I figured out how to put that theory into practice and my art actually got somewhat good.
I guess I take issue with your claim of grand seniority
Edit: Not that it's inherently undeserved. Maybe it was quite pompous though?
Holy shit have you ever seen anybody try so hard to sit on a fence
I legitimately have a fence post right up my arse
[QUOTE=Maloof?;46597482]everybody else I can think of who gives criticism here has a demonstrable level of skill, whereas I haven't seen any of your work at all.[/QUOTE]
what about dgg
I tried hard not to make it sound like a pompous claim of grand seniority m8 :v: give me some credit, I said there's a decent chance because a lot of people are beginners. I'm not incredible yet but I'm not a beginner was the point
as if you don't recall me posting anything EVER
I used to post work as well as crit fairly often, I don't at the moment because I'm focusing on improving
like I feel there's not much point posting something if I can see issues with it, stuff I know I need to work on without being told. So instead of posting I go and work more on the issues. You def should remember me posting things, I stopped probably around the same time you stopped
anyway I've mostly been studying fundamentals and doing exercises specific to certain things I need to get better at. Soon I'm gonna start trying to apply everything I've learned so you'll be seeing some finished stuff from me before long hopefully.
[editline]29th November 2014[/editline]
[QUOTE=Eric95;46597726]what about dgg[/QUOTE]
yah I forgot to reply to that line, dgg has no demonstrable skill which is super important to keep in mind lol
[QUOTE=Eric95;46597726]what about dgg[/QUOTE]
I remember dgg had a nice rodent
[editline]29th November 2014[/editline]
I genuinely don't remember anything you've posted though mako. Maybe a rough landscape from ages ago idk
Contrary to popular belief these arguments won't increase your art level either guys
I was bored and decided to see if I could do a half decent job coloring something and tried my avatar.
[t]http://u.cubeupload.com/BANNED_USER/coloredcosmonaut.png[/t]
[QUOTE=Maloof?;46597482]tbh I can't recall you posting art ever so I can't say whether I agree that you're 'more advanced in making art' than everybody here (or the new people posting here, or whatever your point was?)
[editline]29th November 2014[/editline]
sorry, that sounded rude. I just meant to say that everybody else I can think of who gives criticism here has a demonstrable level of skill, whereas I haven't seen any of your work at all. That's not to say that level of usable skill is necessary to give criticism - I was giving helpful advice based on theory long before I figured out how to put that theory into practice and my art actually got somewhat good.
I guess I take issue with your claim of grand seniority
Edit: Not that it's inherently undeserved. Maybe it was quite pompous though?
Holy shit have you ever seen anybody try so hard to sit on a fence
I legitimately have a fence post right up my arse[/QUOTE]
Mako can actually paint so don't go making sly little digs like that. When it comes to technical advice about painting he's really good if you hold back the overwhelming urge to punch him in the teeth.
However I think he's self taught. His last few posts make me think he tried art school and left.
My internet died last and forum user Handsome Matt has been wanting me to draw him so I sketched up this little doodle:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/gcZ1Pjk.png[/img]
Hoping one day I can do proper anatomy/figures and learn to paint, but I am quite pleased with this for now :v:
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