• What is a Perfect Government
    155 replies, posted
Democracy is the perfect form of government for nations that have yet to work out a better alternative. Though I myself believe that the perfect form of government is not the strongest government, nor the most intelligent. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change.
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If this is a purely hypothetical situation in which whatever government I want goes and will be achieved no matter what, I'm thinking some kind of government that it is completely impossible to rebel against. Basically everyone is at the utmost of efficiency because the government tells yo to - and what the government says goes. So long as the leaders - or just "the government" - remain uncorrupt in their dealings with each-other, nothing can conceivably go wrong. The only problem is the lack of self, but no-one will know what that is anyway. Essentially, it's perfect because the few rulers there are tell you it is. If it isn't perfect, then it's your job to make it so - and when you die, you will die being told you made the perfect government. Evil, undoubtedly. Perfect, though... it's unimaginably so. Edit: As for the chance of corruption, my idea is that we will always have the same rulers - and these rulers will be, totalitarian as they are, relatively kind, accepting people. So when something isn't as efficient as it could be, a worker will point this out. The records shall be checked and calculations performed, and if they are correct, it will be changed. If not... nothing. Things stay the same. This way, the government will be able to adapt but still remain in control - people cannot rebel, and the only way to improve the closest thing to a life they have will be to work with their leaders, ensuring cooperation.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;32407749]Why are so many people for autocracies?! It absolutely blows my mind.[/QUOTE] I have taken enough political science courses and history courses to know that only a very few dictatorships help the people, and mostly enforce and abuse their rule. Once a person can wield unlimited power and have zero accountability, they are corrupted. More often than not Dictatorships end due to their own attempts at keeping power. (Many of the Mughal Emperors killed their relatives to strenghten their rule, irc Sulemain of The Ottomans left weak leadership after his death because he shut in his killed his most capable heirs).
A perfect government is a government that isnt afraid to change itself and will advance and adapt as needed. Something that says, "oh, ok, what we are doing isnt working anymore, lets try something else" without putting up a huge fight. Perfection doesnt exist, much like scientific fact, we define it as the closest thing to perfection we can achieve as something that takes everything we currently know and can know and applies it. You can be perfect for a moment, but nothing is perfect forever, in a sense. Lets not turn this topic into a semantics contest, i just described what the something perfect in this reality means to me, and despite this topic being basically made to play on these differences, its important we define eachothers definition differently than our own and not fight about what perfect "REALLY IS". Onto today's comparison. All current and past government systems are made simply to keep themselves going. Look at the USA's, we have a constitution that everybody agrees is made to prevent utter defacement of the government system and keep values then as similar to they are now as possible. It gives you some wiggle room in terms of laws and amendments, but if you proved scientifically tomorrow that it was necessary for advancement of the country and the world that do something completely constradictory to it, it simply isnt possible. For instance, lets say we needed to change the way the 3 branches work to the point of actually removing and replacing them, that simply wouldn't be possible in a government like this. your screwed, basically, without a major revolution or collapse.
Their will never be a perfect governemnt, it's impossible to do, but we can strive to make the best one we can and attempt to make the world a better place.
Social-liberalism, and I will give absolutely no reason for it.
Drugs, everyone gets drugs. Also brainwashed from birth. As I said, the system from Brave New World is perfect because everyone is always happy, even though we would find the system repulsive.
No government at all.
[QUOTE=J!NX;32403555]except that would be nothing but chaos and anarchy people need control, and theres no such think as no government, or a perfect government, its literally impossible.[/QUOTE] Hence why he said the perfect goverment in a perfect world would be no government, which is true because the world would be perfect (ie no problemo). In an imperfect world though, a blend that appeases all the masses. I think that many major issues need to be dealt with to get people thinking on the same wavelength before the world could become perfect.
america
[QUOTE=ForestRaptor;32407736]Strong dictatorship. There's obviously good dictatorships or somewhat dictatorish monarchies in the world, United Arab Emirates for example. Yeah, few people get a shitty place from the bottom of the hierarchy, but they can thank themselves for holding the country in one piece.[/QUOTE] It's a censorship hellhole there though.
Anarcho-fascism.
[QUOTE=Fables;32403834]Yeah yeah, post this while you're at it. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JfnFXdkSTI[/media][/QUOTE] Hey, I was serious. Despite Invisible war sucking, the helios ending in that kinda makes sense. An AI that caters to the needs of all humans, and understands each person's life. Doesn't sound that bad, just because it's in a video game, doesn't mean it's a terrible idea. The whole concept isn't new anyways, Look at the quote by voltare at the end. and Morpheus "God was a dream of good government." Makes sense to me. [editline]21st September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=SCopE5000;32413423]Hence why he said the perfect goverment in a perfect world would be no government, which is true because the world would be perfect (ie no problemo). In an imperfect world though, a blend that appeases all the masses. I think that many major issues need to be dealt with to get people thinking on the same wavelength before the world could become perfect.[/QUOTE] That last bit I like.
[QUOTE=Alpha 1-1;32416810]Hey, I was serious. Despite Invisible war sucking, the helios ending in that kinda makes sense. An AI that caters to the needs of all humans, and understands each person's life. Doesn't sound that bad, just because it's in a video game, doesn't mean it's a terrible idea. The whole concept isn't new anyways, Look at the quote by voltare at the end. and Morpheus "God was a dream of good government." Makes sense to me. [/QUOTE] The most interesting thing, is that although Helios is a Big Brother, he uses that power only to cater to masses on statistical basis, as well as earning favor from the populace by catering to their individual needs. The only problem in this situation, is lack of empathy which Denton is supposed to solve through his experienced brain.
The perfect, Utopian government is the one that you do not need.
It all depends on what you mean by "perfect government." What would be the perfect government for the perfect world? Socialist, hands down. What would be the perfect government for the current world? I've yet to see it in history. Best suited seems to be democracy, from what I've learned, but perfect? Has yet to be accomplished.
There is no such thing as a perfect government. We as humans will keep constantly subjecting ourselves to new forms of government every few centuries or so, and as so forever
[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;32415598]Anarcho-fascism.[/QUOTE] I literally LOL'd. Nice.
Anarchy
[QUOTE=Robbobin;32407749]Why are so many people for autocracies?! It absolutely blows my mind.[/QUOTE] As a history nut I can observe that in some cases autocracies worked. Fredrick, Catherine, Napoleon, Chinese and Roman emperors were all autocrats, but they ruled for the benefit of the people, not for their own self-gain. Now of course the Roman and Chinese emperors varied greatly in personality and the times and societies they lived in, so I'm not saying all of them were benevolent autocrats. However, the thing to note is that autocracies have [I]historically[/I] worked. They can only work in the modern day world under very specific circumstances. To answer your question I believe they think it's the best form because dictatorships get things done. No red tape, no debate. I think this works only if the nation is emerging from some turbulent period, like the United States after the war of independence (although it wasn't so much a matter of dicatorship as it was an issue of state rights vs. federal government), France after the Revolution, and Rome after the civil war. And while I can say I've never experienced living in a dictatorship, my Dad has; he's from Cuba. The things he tells me definitely does not make me a fan of dictatorship, but I don't believe it's a universally bad thing.
Maybe I SHOULDN'T have said "Perfect". Bad wording, I guess.
Humans call and will fall into corruption, and having an AI as a ruling power would prevent it from having human emotions and reasoning, as it will strive to create the perfect system which is not possible with our views and morality. It simply cannot be done.
I'd have to say there isn't exactly 'perfect' about any form of governments, simply because NOTHING can be perfect. There's bound to be a single flaw in the government. But in my case, I'd say there shouldn't be a government, more or less people live by their own ways, and not force others to follow their ideologies. But that'll never happen, no matter how hard anyone tries. Anarchy is the secondary option.
I think direct democracy should be tried again. There hasn't really been on since Athens, an I think with a small community, a well educated populace, and modern communications technology, it could work well.
One that can control it's peoples without fear, violence or propaganda.
Perfection has yet to exist on earth in any definable form. So good luck describing something so relatively conceptualized.
First, stop with this annoying "there is no perfect" argument". Who cares, you understand the question, stop playing a game of semantics. If you don't quite understand, what would be your ideal society and what role what government have in it? This is a question of ideals as you don't have the consider the plausibility of fully moving to that system. I take the stance of a anarcho-capitalism society. Such an argument would be difficult to make in such a small amount of time, but it would be a system based on strict property rights and the non aggression axiom. Why no government? Because it is not possible for the government to exist while at the same time not violate the non aggression axiom.
[QUOTE=Real Hitler Fag;32421500]There is no such thing as a perfect government. We as humans will keep constantly subjecting ourselves to new forms of government every few centuries or so, and as so forever[/QUOTE] unless we have a government that continually evolves to the humans within it and doesn't cling to itself as today's governments do.
[QUOTE=_Kent_;32436640]I think direct democracy should be tried again. There hasn't really been on since Athens, an I think with a small community, a well educated populace, and modern communications technology, it could work well.[/QUOTE] The problem with direct democracy is that although it gives power to the people, it is not necessarily always a good thing to give power to your average Joe, it's the reason why we vote for representatives and entrust them with making the right informed decision. Direct democracy allows for people to attempt to create their own ideal society, although one persons opinion will conflict with many others and it would essentially lead to absolutely no progress. We need a person who can lead a compromise for everyone, a compromise made from an informed and professional opinion. When we give power to representatives, it simplifies the system and actually allows for progress, by giving the power to someone who actually knows what would be best for everyone and not for any person in particular. These are the reasons why I don't believe direct democracy would be a perfect government.
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