You don't know what the fucking scientific method is and yet you sit here telling us this shit is super duper scientific.
[QUOTE=Lankist;13481678]You don't know what the fucking scientific method is and yet you sit here telling us this shit is super duper scientific.[/QUOTE]
I do know what the scientific method is and hypnosis is a science.
You can predict but are likely to receive distinctive results as opposed to your initial predictions, and can observe and measure the effects of hypnosis; you can measure the quantity and time from which suggestions had taken effect - and can also observe the attempts and integrity of memory following a hypnotism session; an individual is likely to lack memory from which had occurred during a given session and thus, this is predictable and can be measured.
Hypnosis can also be re-tested, and thus otherwise and ultimately, hypnosis wouldn't be a subject - it would have been long forgotten and would not be used, although the placebo effect is still adapted by many spiritual subjects, hypnotism is objective - your given the opportunity to experience by will, and thus, is not a placebo - it isn't subjective.
You can also observe hypnosis through the response from individuals, personal experience and through observation upon the changes in activity throughout the brain using various equipment - EEG, MRI scanners, etc.
However, hypnosis is inconsistent with truth - it's the act of belief, but mostly subjective. Despite this, hypnosis can contribute mostly as a Science - it is the subjective effects based on an objective desire to achieve a given change, whether it be psychological or physiological.
Instead of going "Oh this doesn't work you're wrong" try it instead. You really need to have an open mind for it to work and you have to concentrate and you have to want it to work!
I [i]reallllly[/i] wanted that woman's orgasm.
Is there one where you can get a pigs orgasm? Pigs have orgasm for 30 minutes!
[QUOTE=kirderf;13481755]Instead of going "Oh this doesn't work you're wrong" try it instead. You really need to have an open mind for it to work and you have to concentrate and you have to want it to work![/QUOTE]
You only need to be consisted with a desire, the patience to listen and an open-mind; you can achieve many results from hypnosis, most of which can appear bizarre to a norm. An example would be to become feminine, gay or bisexual - if an individual lacked the ability to become attracted to one of the same sex but had desired to become attracted to them, hypnosis can alter an individuals sexual attraction.
[QUOTE=kirderf;13481816]Is there one where you can get a pigs orgasm? Pigs have orgasm for 30 minutes![/QUOTE]
I wouldn't mind being a Pig :P
[QUOTE=hirigaji;13481402]It is a science - it's the manipulation of the human mind and ultimately the brain itself. [/QUOTE]
So is hitting people in the face with a sledgehammer.
[QUOTE=chris0132;13482558]So is hitting people in the face with a sledgehammer.[/QUOTE]
The sledgehammer itself is a science - a sophisticated science in perspective; it's dependent upon physical and other fundamental science, but hitting one in the face with a sledgehammer is the use of a science.
[QUOTE=hirigaji;13482648]The sledgehammer itself is a science - a sophisticated science in perspective; it's dependent upon physical and other fundamental science, but hitting one in the face with a sledgehammer is the use of a science.[/QUOTE]
And there goes all possible value of the phrase 'it's a science'.
[QUOTE=chris0132;13482670]And there goes all possible value of the phrase 'it's a science'.[/QUOTE]
It can be a science - it can base upon as the fundamentals for products of its own existence. An example would be Chemistry; Chemistry is fundamentally a Science but is ultimately based upon Physics and thus, it's a sophisticated Science - it's a product of physics, but is also the fundamentals for other products, or Sciences rather. Despite this, both products and Sciences are subject to Chemistry - they can be perceived as uses of the Science, but are essentially products and Sciences.
[QUOTE=hirigaji;13482738]It can be a science - it can base upon as the fundamentals for products of its own existence. An example would be Chemistry; Chemistry is fundamentally a Science but is ultimately based upon Physics and thus, is a sophisticated Science - it's a product of physics, but is also the fundamentals for other products, or Sciences rather. Despite this, both products and Sciences are subject to Chemistry - they can be perceived as uses of the Science, but are essentially products and Sciences.[/QUOTE]
I'm not arguing that, I'm saying that if anything can be a science, saying something is a science is about as relevant and show-stopping as saying rocks are heavy, or bombs are dangerous.
[QUOTE=chris0132;13482558]So is hitting people in the face with a sledgehammer.[/QUOTE]
Oh hahaha! You just killed his arguments!
[QUOTE=chris0132;13482756]I'm not arguing that, I'm saying that if anything can be a science, saying something is a science is about as relevant and show-stopping as saying rocks are heavy, or bombs are dangerous.[/QUOTE]
That's true, and this is kinda irrelevant - the fact is is that hypnotism is operable, can be tested and observed upon.
I would say hypnotism is mostly based upon a Science - I guess I've kinda contradicted myself, oops - and my apologies. However, despite this, I would also say it's mostly the product of Science - the utilization of a given Science; Neuro and cognitive Psychology.
[QUOTE=kirderf;13482779]Oh hahaha! You just killed his arguments![/QUOTE]
What?
[QUOTE=hirigaji;13482840]That's true, and this is kinda irrelevant - the fact is is that hypnotism is operable, can be tested and observed upon.
I would say hypnotism is mostly based upon a Science - I guess I've kinda contradicted myself, oops - and my apologies. However, despite this, I would also say it's mostly the product of Science - the utilization of a given Science; Neuro and cognitive Psychology.[/QUOTE]
And it's damn stupid.
[QUOTE=chris0132;13482847]And it's damn stupid.[/QUOTE]
To you and others it might be, but it works - it can be tested and observed, and as a result, can introduce many advantages, as such; cognitive enhancements.
[QUOTE=hirigaji;13482881]To you and others it might be, but it works - it can be tested and observed, and as a result, can introduce many advantages, as such; cognitive enhancements.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't work on everybody, and nobody knows why, it doesn't work consistently, and nobody knows why, it doesn't have a set mode of practice, and nobody knows why, and the rules can be made up by just about anybody, and nobody knows why. It is comparable to me punching every sick person in the face and telling the ones that are cured that my fist carries the blessing of the lord.
It's bloody stupid.
[QUOTE=chris0132;13482924]It doesn't work on everybody, and nobody knows why, it doesn't work consistently, and nobody knows why, it doesn't have a set mode of practice, and nobody knows why, and the rules can be made up by just about anybody, and nobody knows why. It is comparable to me punching every sick person in the face and telling the ones that are cured that my fist did it.
It's bloody stupid.[/QUOTE]
It doesn't work on everybody - individuals fall into trance varying specifically from behavior and thought; if one is skeptic, they may encounter less chance in falling into a trance; trance can also be measured in depth - the deeper one is, the more suggestible and the more effective the results - the less deep is contrary.
Hypnosis is essentially placing an individual into trance, which is essentially pertaining an individuals focus whilst temporarily reducing the capabilities of the conscious mind, effectively enabling for one to become more suggestible and thus, increase the effectiveness of end results.
Also, subjective beliefs can be effects of a placebo; one will believe in an authoritative figure and a given cure suggested for the removal of a given illness. However, trance enables for one to achieve suggestions objectively; one can fall into trance by will and can experience trance through the use of a reduced state of consciousness - they objectively commit to become suggestible.
[QUOTE=hirigaji;13482972]It doesn't work on everybody - individuals fall into trance varying specifically from behavior and thought; if one is skeptic, they may encounter less chance in falling into a trance; trance can also be measured in depth - the deeper one is, the more suggestible and the more effective the results - the less deep is contrary.
Hypnosis is essentially placing an individual into trance, which is essentially pertaining an individuals focus whilst temporarily reducing the capabilities of the conscious mind, effectively enabling for one to become more suggestible and thus, increase the effectiveness of end results.[/QUOTE]
How do you measure trance? Do you use a trancometer? A DJ? Album sales? Or just any old system you want to make up? What is the SI unit of trance depth?
[QUOTE=chris0132;13483004]How do you measure trance? Do you use a trancometer? A DJ? Album sales? Or just any old system you want to make up? What is the SI unit of trance depth?[/QUOTE]
You measure the depth of trance through the individuals experiences; if one had experience a deep trance, memory should appear distorted or may even be inaccessible to the individual - similar to a dream-state.
So that would be 'any system you want to make up' then?
[QUOTE=chris0132;13483033]So that would be 'any system you want to make up' then?[/QUOTE]
What?
[QUOTE=hirigaji;13483041]What?[/QUOTE]
You made that up, or somebody made that up, and applying it is entirely down to the opinions of the person doing the measuring.
That isn't scientific, that's making things up.
[QUOTE=chris0132;13483004]How do you measure trance? Do you use a trancometer? A DJ? Album sales? Or just any old system you want to make up? What is the SI unit of trance depth?[/QUOTE]
Well, if you feel relaxed enough, but meh, who knows, maybe its how heavy ou fell, so if you fell like your going through the bed, your in a deep trance...But this is all speculation.
[QUOTE=chris0132;13483057]You made that up, or somebody made that up, and applying it is entirely down to the opinions of the person doing the measuring.
That isn't scientific, that's making things up.[/QUOTE]
No, this can be tested and the same integrity is applied to dream recall; you can measure the effectiveness of dream recall from within various individuals and can also apply the same principle to hypnosis - trance.
[QUOTE=hirigaji;13483083]No, this can be tested and the same integrity is applied to dream recall; you can measure the effectiveness of dream recall from within various individuals and can also apply the same principle to hypnosis - trance.[/QUOTE]
Oh yes and dream recall is such a precise science.
'Did you remember this accurately?'
'Yes'
'How do you know?'
'Because I remember it.'
'How do you know you didn't make it up and just think it happened?'
'Because I remember it'
'Oh well that's all right then.'
[QUOTE=chris0132;13483127]Oh yes and dream recall is such a precise science.
'Did you remember this accurately?'
'Yes'
'How do you know?'
'Because I remember it.'
'How do you know you didn't make it up and just think it happened?'
'Because I remember it'
'Oh well that's all right then.'[/QUOTE]
Not only can you measure an individuals response, but you can also measure through the use of imaging techniques by observing the activity of various aspects from within the brain.
[QUOTE=hirigaji;13483142]Not only can you measure an individuals response, but you can also measure through the use of imaging techniques by observing the activity of various aspects from within the brain.[/QUOTE]
Right, and you can tell what they are dreaming from the MRI can you?
Of course you can't, all you know is that they are dreaming, whether or not they remember it accurately you have absolutely no idea, because you can't go and check.
[QUOTE=chris0132;13483160]Right, and you can tell what they are dreaming from the MRI can you?
Of course you can't, all you know is that they are dreaming, whether or not they remember it accurately you have absolutely no idea, because you can't go and check.[/QUOTE]
I guess so, but you could compare collected data on the individuals attempt and ability to recall data from both dreams and trance.
You could also measure the depth of hypnotic trance and ability to recall through the observation of brainwave frequency; it is common for an individual to go through Theta states during a deep hypnotic trance.
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