[QUOTE=supervoltage;32521477]I imagine Heaven as your dream place, a place you think is the most exciting, beautiful and has all the luxury you have always wanted. For example.. Women. Yes, women. A brothel filled with the most beautiful women. I'm serious, by the way.[/QUOTE]
Why would God punish you with eternal damnation for something he has waiting for you in Heaven?
Heaven sounds like Nozick's pleasure machine: a machine where you can feel nothing but pleasure. Would you plug in to such a machine? Most people say no.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;32522864]Why would God punish you with eternal damnation for something he has waiting for you in Heaven?
Heaven sounds like Nozick's pleasure machine: a machine where you can feel nothing but pleasure. Would you plug in to such a machine? Most people say no.[/QUOTE]
I imagine that machine as something that would kill each little part of you except pleasure. It'd be like only things which you see as pleasureable (is that even a word?) would keep you alive. On anything else, you'd lie dead on the floor.
I think that unless there is good evidence to believe in something, then I shouldn't believe in it. That would include Gods.
I do think that a God is a reasonable excuse to use until some bright minds can discover how the universe really was created, but I prefer to believe in other theories that hold slightly more merit than a supreme being that just creates a whole universe for the hell of it.
[editline]28th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=supervoltage;32523000]I imagine that machine as something that would kill each little part of you except pleasure. It'd be like only things which you see as pleasureable (is that even a word?) would keep you alive. On anything else, you'd lie dead on the floor.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps a machine that gives you a constant drip of endorphins.
[QUOTE=supervoltage;32523000]I imagine that machine as something that would kill each little part of you except pleasure. It'd be like only things which you see as pleasureable (is that even a word?) would keep you alive. On anything else, you'd lie dead on the floor.[/QUOTE]
But in Heaven [I]you are[/I] dead?
I'm 100% Nihilistic (in existential nihilism terms), so the idea of God just seems darn right silly to me. I also get annoyed with the argument "But how did [i]we[/i] get here? By [i]chance[/i]? lol good one!" Yes, it was by chance, and nothing more. Do you know how many galaxies there are in the universe? It's estimated to be somewhere around 125 billion. When you take that into consideration, the whole "luck" thing doesn't seem so crazy.
To be absolutely nihilistic you need to believe that absolutely nothing exists. Do you really hold that position?
(Not really refuting you; I'm similarly quite the nihilist (moral nihilist, at least) and I'm intrigued if you're a genuine actual total nihilist :v:)
[QUOTE=Robbobin;32523422]To be absolutely nihilistic you need to believe that absolutely nothing exists. Do you really hold that position?
(Not really refuting you; I'm similarly quite the nihilist (moral nihilist, at least) and I'm intrigued if you're a genuine actual total nihilist :v:)[/QUOTE]
Good point. I am not a total nihilist in that case, because I belive in what is currently here (me, you, cities and so on). I was refering more to existential nihilism, although I do consider mereological nihilism to be an interesting concept because it accepts that things do exist, but that there are only building blocks.
(Also I am a moral nihilst too, woo!)
[QUOTE=Robbobin;32523217]But in Heaven [I]you are[/I] dead?[/QUOTE]
I was referring more to the machine, not heaven. In heaven, you feel the same like you would back on earth. I think that at the time of death one of your fingers would be cut off, you'd be like that in heaven. If you died of a gunshot to the head, you'll walk around heaven with a bullet wound in your head.
[QUOTE=supervoltage;32507904]2000 years ago, not many people could possess a telescope OR any device that could observe space at a very high resolution. Aliens could easily come and use a primitive(?) cloaking technology to get close to us and observe Jesus from up close. After the aliens have abducted Jesus (40 days after his revival), they ran away using hyper-speed technology.[/QUOTE]
Why are you using a ridiculous theory about aliens to rationalize a two-thousand year old religious myth?
[QUOTE=Patriarch;32523278]I'm 100% Nihilistic, so the idea of God just seems darn right silly to me. I also get annoyed with the argument "But how did [i]we[/i] get here? By [i]chance[/i]? lol good one!" Yes, it was by chance, and nothing more. Do you know how many galaxies there are in the universe? It's estimated to be somewhere around 125 billion. When you take that into consideration, the whole "luck" thing doesn't seem so crazy.[/QUOTE]
Nihilist huh?
I hope you drop that as you age.. or something. But yeah I gotta agree you on some level, that the most puzzling questions eventually come down to quite simple truths.
Like the question why are we here? or where are we? the truth as it appears, is that we live on a relatively small, colorful rich planet with hundreds of light years in radius of space all around us. God doesn't fit.. it just lies there in the heads of those people on that one planet known to them.
[QUOTE=Bat-shit;32525148]Nihilist huh?
I hope you drop that as you age.. or something.[/QUOTE]
I have no plans to.
No comment on the rest of the text?
The two reasons I don't believe in God:
1: There is no proof. (Normal Debate)
2: If there are so many religions what would make one true. If one existed why would anyone believe in anything else? Meaning that is all the others are fake, then that one must be fake too.
To me, the whole point of religion is just to be a template for what a decent human being should be. If don't behave and follow the rules that (insert religious text here) put in place, you will burn in hell/ be reincarnated as a butthole, etc. There seem to be a vast amount of more practical reasons for things happening the way that they do, than just saying that they happen [I]because[/I] they do.
nope.
[QUOTE=Rebi;32520837]I don't know, heaven sounds like a nice place to live, you know, where it's impossible to feel anything other than joy.[/QUOTE]
I dislike the sound of that already.
no one knows
Got done with covering religion in Ethics a week ago.
It's impossible to come up with a definitive answer because there is no evidence for the disproving of the existence of God yet there is no evidence for proving that there IS a God.
Really, it all depends on your beliefs.
However, the same cannot be said for Creationism Vs Evolution and other feats that this God has supposedly accomplished. That's something I can voice out on if the thread ever arises.
[editline]28th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Venezuelan;32533260]no one knows[/QUOTE]
And nobody ever will.
[QUOTE=silentjubjub;32533358]Got done with covering religion in Ethics a week ago.
It's impossible to come up with a definitive answer because there is no evidence for the disproving of the existence of God yet there is no evidence for proving that there IS a God.[/QUOTE]
This isn't a question of proof. The concept of god is inconsistent. Omniscience, omnipotence and omnibenevolence are incompatible and hence god cannot exist. As soon as you become a moral nihilist, god becomes much simpler because it only has to be all-knowing and all-powerful. But its existence does absolutely nothing to explain phenomena that isn't already explained (at least in theory) without. I'm honestly at a major loss as to what belief in god [I]actually[/I] gives people. I believe in objective meaninglessness and the absurdity of life - I truly believe this makes life a thousand times more subjectively valuable.
Been watching some Ancient Aliens haven't you, OP?
[QUOTE=Natahster;32538341]Been watching some Ancient Aliens haven't you, OP?[/QUOTE]
I haven't heard of it in my entire life till I made this thread.
[QUOTE=supervoltage;32507393]Over the last couple of weeks, I've been baffling myself with this question repeatedly: [b]"Does God even exist?"[/b]
Sure, God and related Saints have been mentioned in The Bible, but text alone doesn't provide enough information about His existence. We could say that He is an alien. For example, when Saint Mary got pregnant with Jesus, The Bible mentions a ray of light in the middle of the night (may be Jesus's birth), which was casting on Mary. Now, we know that aliens possess some high-tech stuff (the alien technology 2000 years ago might possibly be outdated), so they could have used a teleporter ray to inseminate Mary with a human sperm. I know it sounds ridiculous, but it may have been it. The aliens would then create the so-called "miracles", using Jesus as a dummy. Pre-Jesus period (time before Jesus was borned) in which miracles happened also applies.
Now, for the proof of His and Jesus's existence. Once, my Religion teacher told my class a story about a cross being dug out of the ground. At that time, a potentially blind old woman was walking around and overheard the people who dug out the cross arguing if it was Jesus's cross or one of the two criminal's crosses. The old woman said "If the cross that I'll touch will heal my eyes, then it's Jesus's cross." She then touched the cross and she regained her vision.
However, there IS a problem with the above story. When Jesus was killed on the cross, The Bible says that the ground shook at the exact time of his death. This involves alien activity, who might have tried to save Jesus from his death by striking the cross with a strong healing substance, shield or whatever it may be. Also, the old woman might have lost her mind and thought that she was blind.
There are more theories and statements that I have yet not heard of, and I'd gladly read them to form a stronger opinion on God's existence, as well as the other FP users.
inb4:
"(User was banned for this post ("Shit thread" - garry))"[/QUOTE]
or the actually reasonable explanation:
humans made shit up from stories that have been retold for hundreds of years, fuck knows how many times before they were written down. and the only lady was fucking with them and nothing "supernatural" has ever happened on earth, or anywhere else.
[QUOTE=Robbobin;32535396]Omniscience, omnipotence and omnibenevolence are incompatible and hence god cannot exist.[/QUOTE]
A god doesn't have to possess all of those qualities and very few of them do.
Until a god comes down from above and tells us all he is god, I don't believe.
But I guess I do have speculations that there may possibly be a higher power, so I suppose I'm agnostic. Just not the "God" from religions basically.
You guys are so informed on this subject, talking about logic and shit. So i'll just add something:
Belief in God is based on faith not logic. I am an atheist and I understand completely any religious person. If you are sooo interested in a logical proof of God's existance look up the ontological, cosmological, teleological arguments, or just read some of Aquinas', Kant's, Hume's work.
People have concluded the above centuries ago, so don't come here with your teenage logic trying to debate on the "existence of God" (a question that is not even sound/valid)
It should be clear to everybody, that primitive races seek answers for everything and are scared of things they don't understand. God is just a misleading term for something fictional and "unexplainable", we seek comfort in religions (afterlife and stuff like that) and that's pretty much normal for us, that's how we work.
But science has proved many things to be wrong in the bible, nowdays religious people are just saying, that those things were metaphors. Also these days religions are more of a burden.
We seek answers, when we can't find them, we still try to explain those things, [I]we theorize[/I].
But I don't see anything wrong with actually being religious, seeking comfort isn't a bad thing.
Also this is just how I see it, it's my view on this subject.
[QUOTE=Aidos;32550940]You guys are so informed on this subject, talking about logic and shit. So i'll just add something:
Belief in God is based on faith not logic. I am an atheist and I understand completely any religious person. If you are sooo interested in a logical proof of God's existance look up the ontological, cosmological, teleological arguments, or just read some of Aquinas', Kant's, Hume's work.
People have concluded the above centuries ago, so don't come here with your teenage logic trying to debate on the "existence of God" (a question that is not even sound/valid)[/QUOTE]
Someone sure is stuck up and pretentious. Normally I'd point out why but I think it'd be a waste of time.
[QUOTE=Chrille;32552164]Someone sure is stuck up and pretentious. Normally I'd point out why but I think it'd be a waste of time.[/QUOTE]
My point is this thread is not a debate. Debate invovles an intelligent discussion. All I see here is "God can't be real, it's illogical!", there are some good posts however.
If you think i'm pretentious because I suggested to read up something then you are the one who is stuck up.
[QUOTE=Aidos;32556380]My point is this thread is not a debate. Debate invovles an intelligent discussion. All I see here is "God can't be real, it's illogical!", there are some good posts however.
If you think i'm pretentious because I suggested to read up something then you are the one who is stuck up.[/QUOTE]
You sounded pretentious (and stuck up) because your attitude suggested superiority on the basis that you had read some philosophical works. Which I are familiar with, by the way.
But yeah, it's religion threads are mostly circlejerks.
[QUOTE=Chrille;32556527]You sounded pretentious (and stuck up) because your attitude suggested superiority on the basis that you had read some philosophical works. Which I are familiar with, by the way.
But yeah, it's religion threads are mostly circlejerks.[/QUOTE]
Ok I tried to come off as superior but mostly to inspire an improved discussion and cut off everyone who used the argument of "proof" and "logic".
Yup, I guess there is no point
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