The US is a secular state under most definitions actually. You have to consider the fact that if lawmakers bring in their own beliefs and build laws according to those they do not breach secularity.
Essentially you would be breaching it the moment you would be building laws that somehow benefit or discredit certain religions or beliefs. These goes both for tradtional nonsecularist states and states a revers (atheism is favoured legally).
For instance a lawmaker going - It is my moral belief, according to my religious beliefs, that the life penalty shall be abolised - is not a breach of secularism.
But the same lawmaker going - The bible tells us that killing is forbidden and we use the bible as a partial source of our legislature - would be such a breach.
Another breach would undu limitations on others.
Another such nonsecularist lawmaking would be.
The nonattendance of churches and other religious establishments will be fined. Everyone must have a religion.
De jure, yes.
De facto, no.
It may not be a theocracy or even a government tied to a religion but I'll fucked if there aren't people trying to change those facts.
[QUOTE=Robbi;37505013]De jure, yes.
De facto, no.[/QUOTE]
Well obviously the de lege lata could use some improvements. But it's fairly good. The problem with the US is not the legislature. You can work with de lege ferenda theories as much as you want. The problem in the US (problem here being a very wide term - we're just talking of the secularism here) is the very strong religous culture which drives a lot of people to act according to religious beliefs in somewhat different ways than elsewhere.
While in Europe you have strongly religious law makers and judges as well, the culture on it is different.
It won't stop the US from being a secular state thoug.
The US is supposed to be a secular state. You can chose your religion or not even have one.
It's just idiot politicians who mess things up. You have the idiot politicians who just believe everything in the bible. Then you have the evil fuckers who use religion as way to get votes and bend things to their will.
Just because the government contains religous people doesnt mean its not secular
No matter if the entire fucking government is christian, or muslim, or atheist, theres nothing they can do to rape the country without the people fighting back
Unless, of course, the people are politically apathetic.
Be a citizen! VOTE!
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=SGTSpartans;37427081]Also, a side question that I am asking those who know more about Christianity than I do; Would God/Jesus align himself with the poor, or the wealthy? If poor, how can the republicans run as Pure Devoted Holy Christians?[/QUOTE]
Jesus would not "run" with the poor if we are using the Bible as a source although more poor people would probably follow him. He associated with quite a few rich people. He never said any positives or negatives inherent in the amount of wealth one has, just that a rich person will have a harder time not loving money more than God/Jesus.
The letters to the church talk about it a bit more. They talk about how one shouldn't be given food if they are unwilling to work and that being rich just means you should also be more generous. There are also examples of rich people in the Old Testament who were some of the most praised in the entire Bible. (Job, Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, David, Solomon, etc. all were very wealthy while also being very righteous)
The USA has never been a secular state and it most definitely is not right now.
Very relevant video
[video=youtube;dA3YF73SNuY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA3YF73SNuY[/video]
The U.S south is now Jesusland especially Texas and Alabama.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating" - Megafan))[/highlight]
America has never been a nonsecular nation. Many state constitutions (though not the federal constitution) acknowledge the existence of "God" but they in no way enforce that belief on the people, nor restrict those electable to only the religious.
Some religious based laws have gotten through the secular cracks here and there through out the history of the country, but religious theocracy was never enforced broadly and across the board; and those laws that did leak through usually died out sometime afterward as the nation modernizes anyway.
If America were not a secular nation, there would be a national "Church of the United States" - and there isn't.
Secularism is on the rise generally in the world. America is arguably more secular today than 50 years ago.
The news article recently about 1/5 Americans being non-religious is just following the trend that Europe began in the Industrial revolution. (America unfortunately had those really bizarre great awakenings which delayed things a bit.)
[QUOTE=Avanti;37447659]Definitely not. This is totally obvious if you just read a few quotes from modern politicians. It's ridiculous.
Also, look at the Pledge of Allegiance. We weren't truly a secular state, even from the beginning.[/QUOTE]
the pledge wasn't made up until the 1890s. and that was without under god
I remember reading not too long ago about a few states having laws not allowing those to hold state office positions without "admitting the existence of a higher being." This went to court and ended up being thrown out as being unconstitutional, however it's still on the state books.
[editline]15th October 2012[/editline]
Texas is a particularly interesting example. The wording is humorous.
[quote]In Article 1, Section 4, the Texas Constitution states: "No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."[/quote]
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38035600]
The news article recently about 1/5 Americans being non-religious is just following the trend that Europe began in the Industrial revolution. (America unfortunately had those really bizarre great awakenings which delayed things a bit.)[/QUOTE]
Correct.
However you missed a little thingamadoodle in the article.
"...found that many of the country’s 46 million religiously unaffiliated adults still see themselves as spiritual. Two-thirds say they do believe in God, more than half feel a connection with nature and the earth, and one in five say they pray every day."
[QUOTE=BFG9000;37573817]Just because the government contains religous people doesnt mean its not secular
No matter if the entire fucking government is christian, or muslim, or atheist, theres nothing they can do to rape the country without the people fighting back
Unless, of course, the people are politically apathetic.
Be a citizen! VOTE!
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is not debating" - Megafan))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
voting in america is like choosing your favorite turd
you're still gonna wind up with shit.
[QUOTE=EcksDee;38049390]Correct.
However you missed a little thingamadoodle in the article.
"...found that many of the country’s 46 million religiously unaffiliated adults still see themselves as spiritual. Two-thirds say they do believe in God, more than half feel a connection with nature and the earth, and one in five say they pray every day."[/QUOTE]
It's similar in Europe, but the main point is that they don't actively go out to church to pray and support policies based on their religious views.
Usually when somebody says "I'm not religious but spiritual" it more or less means "I'm scared of dying but can't be arsed going to church."
What Kind Of An Idiot Believes In God
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38050557]It's similar in Europe, but the main point is that they don't actively go out to church to pray and support policies based on their religious views.
Usually when somebody says "I'm not religious but spiritual" it more or less means "I'm scared of dying but can't be arsed going to church."[/QUOTE]
Whether or not the society is spiritual/religious/whatever doesn't matter to the fact that religion/spirituality does not dictate the law or government, which is the base definition of a secular state, which is what America is and always has been.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;38054835]Whether or not the society is spiritual/religious/whatever doesn't matter to the fact that religion/spirituality does not dictate the law or government, which is the base definition of a secular state, which is what America is and always has been.[/QUOTE]
its still de facto. religion dictate's what a [I]lot [/I]of people do in our government.
bush claims to have talked to god and been led in his presidency.
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