[QUOTE=Autumn;36194252]
i can easily understand apathy towards the royal family, i feel pretty apathetic about it myself, but what i can't understand is the (british) people who have just get so angry about it. if you hate the royal family, our culture, and everything else about this country then what are you still doing here? britain is no paradise, but i'd like to see how you'd fare in a country without a lot of the things that we take for granted.[/QUOTE]
This a thousand times over.
Sick of people getting all angry about the Queen saying stuff like 'Oh shes just an old hag that was born into a rich family that sits and does nothing all day' when they cant even be bothered to look up what she actually does. The Queen is the embodiment of everything that is good about our nation and its history, I bet those that say shes useless would die if they tried being thrown into her job for a while.
Shes an extremely dedicated, intelligent and strong woman, she has performed her duties as head of state brilliantly for 60 years now and she is a very important symbol for Britain and its history. She also is dedicated and loving towards the country and its people, unlike our useless politicians who only care about their own agendas and stuffing their pockets, and she runs charities + raises millions. They contribute so much towards the UK rather than just being pretty ornaments.
I wonder what the answer the haters would give if they were asked if they'd rather have some greedy idiot politician as the head of state in place of the Queen.
[QUOTE=Cushie;36200932]Sick of people getting all angry about the Queen saying stuff like 'Oh shes just an old hag that was born into a rich family that sits and does nothing all day' when they cant even be bothered to look up what she actually does. The Queen is the embodiment of everything that is good about our nation and its history, I bet those that say shes useless would die if they tried being thrown into her job for a while[/QUOTE]
because symbolic figureheads and idols have such a clean and pristine history.
Also what power does the monarch have now, in this day and age? Especially since the Fixed-term Parliament Act. They can't do shit to Parliament anymore, aside from be physically present in some capacity.
All she's there for is social control. A pseudo-religious idol for the population to mimic and derive traits from. I'm not trying to shit on your culture, but come on, man. There's something really creepy about [I]defending[/I] that. You shouldn't derive the entirety of your nation's honor, ethics and philosophy from such a small sample. You shouldn't be able to point at any one person and say "That's the epitome of being British." That's not a society, dude. You shouldn't be able to count the great minds and figures of your culture on one hand. There's so many awesome-yet-disparate figures in current and historical British culture. Don't bog yourself down with just the one.
[QUOTE=Cushie;36200932]This a thousand times over.
Sick of people getting all angry about the Queen saying stuff like 'Oh shes just an old hag that was born into a rich family that sits and does nothing all day' when they cant even be bothered to look up what she actually does. The Queen is the embodiment of everything that is good about our nation and its history, I bet those that say shes useless would die if they tried being thrown into her job for a while.
Shes an extremely dedicated, intelligent and strong woman, she has performed her duties as head of state brilliantly for 60 years now and she is a very important symbol for Britain and its history. She also is dedicated and loving towards the country and its people, unlike our useless politicians who only care about their own agendas and stuffing their pockets, and she runs charities + raises millions. They contribute so much towards the UK rather than just being pretty ornaments.
I wonder what the answer the haters would give if they were asked if they'd rather have some greedy idiot politician as the head of state in place of the Queen.[/QUOTE]
How can she possibly mess up on her duties though, she doesn't make the important and controversial decisions that the politicians you just derided are forced to make. It's really easy to be liked if you don't make the "tough" decisions that always will inevitable get people to hate you for making.
I'm an American though, so I am not too familiar with the duties of the Queen. So if you feel otherwise then please educate me. But from what I know now, her responsibilities are strictly ceremonial? I'm aware she creates fund-raisers and other things as well, but these don't have anything to do with actually running a country.
Queen Victoria was detrimental herself, she impeded the feminist cause by denouncing it with her rather extensive influence.
The fact that we still have somebody who contravenes the idea that everybody is born equal is bad enough.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36201008]because symbolic figureheads and idols have such a clean and pristine history.
Also what power does the monarch have now, in this day and age? Especially since the Fixed-term Parliament Act. They can't do shit to Parliament anymore, aside from be physically present in some capacity.
All she's there for is social control. A pseudo-religious idol for the population to mimic and derive traits from. I'm not trying to shit on your culture, but come on, man. There's something really creepy about [I]defending[/I] that. You shouldn't derive the entirety of your nation's honor, ethics and philosophy from such a small sample. You shouldn't be able to point at any one person and say "That's the epitome of being British." That's not a society, dude. You shouldn't be able to count the great minds and figures of your culture on one hand. There's so many awesome-yet-disparate figures in current and historical British culture. Don't bog yourself down with just the one.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I agree, maybe I over-emphasised her importance a bit, its just something that gets on my nerves. Just what the Queen represents and how she makes Britons feel is something that is extremely hard to put into words and I think most people will tell you the same.
As far as I understand it, they dont have much power anymore and they are slowly losing it, but they still contribute large amounts of wealth towards the country (£45 million + in taxes alone), and she makes hundreds of public appearances a year, as well as helps run multiple charities that are dedicated to improving certain aspects of Britain.
Look at other countries that use Presidents as their head of state. They spend insane amounts of money on elections every few years for poop flinging politicians to fight their way into the position, only to be hated by most of the people until the next expensive election.
[b]I dont know, again its something that is very hard to explain. She isnt someone that we try to mimic, she is just someone that commands great respect and love because she loves her people and her country more anyone else, and has stood steadfast in her position for 60 years. [/b] No scandals, screw-ups or corruption.
Of course this is just my opinion, but I just think its stupid that people have no respect for something that was and is such a huge part of the history of our country - Good or bad
[QUOTE=Cushie;36201441]No scandals, screw-ups, corruption.[/QUOTE]
I'm sorry but are you saying that British royalty has no history of corruption?
See, that's the problem with casual idol worship.
You say no corruption. I hear no accountability. The Queen hasn't been wracked with any scandals because the Queen has no real power to commit scandalous actions, [I]not[/I] because she is an idyllic vision of goodness. You cannot use a symbolic figurehead as an example of nobility when that figurehead couldn't do terrible things even if they wanted to.
American politics are so vitriolic because there is an extreme sense of accountability. They aren't idols, they're human beings whose mistakes are to be known to all, and whose victories are to be examined very carefully. And Parliament is much the same way, despite the sterile reputation of the crown.
Greatness is not doing good things. Greatness is having the opportunity to do bad things and choosing not to. I would give the Queen credit for being incorruptible if she actually had the power to be corrupted.
The problem is that she's a person you cannot criticize without risking becoming a pariah. Sure, a layman can, but a public, influential figure can't rightly say "fuck what the Queen thinks" without at least recanting their words afterward. And that's a bad thing.
[QUOTE=Cushie;36201441]
No scandals, screw-ups, corruption.[/QUOTE]
Not unlike how in a case of religious discrimination that Catholics are still barred, Edward VIII was a Nazi sympathizer, that other prince dressed as a Nazi for a party, etc.
Also its really ancient how we have the head of state as also head of the church. That isn't being secular at all.
[QUOTE=Cushie;36200932]I bet those that say shes useless would die if they tried being thrown into her job for a while.[/QUOTE]
getting chauffeured to events and being told exactly who is there what's going on and what to say in advance.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36201542]I'm sorry but are you saying that British royalty has no history of corruption?[/QUOTE]
I didnt mean the entire royalty, just the Queen.
The Queen doesn't need to have power to be part of a scandal. Her mistakes would be known to all just as anyone else in the public eye, though I guess its stacked in her favour considering she is filling out a role that she was born into and raised to do from the very start.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36201542]Greatness is not doing good things. Greatness is having the opportunity to do bad things and choosing not to. I would give the Queen credit for being incorruptible if she actually had the power to be corrupted.[/QUOTE]
Maybe not corruption, but I would say it would be a pretty bad thing for her to just resign as head of state, sit on top of her wealth and live out the rest of her days in luxury.
I'm probably not making the best choices of words since I'm not a very good arguer/debater, but what is there to actually hate? She has shown nothing but love for the country and has fulfilled her roll well for 60 years running, isn't that something to celebrate?
I understand your points though, I guess it is something that is more emotional than rational, I wouldn't really like to continue since I feel like I'm digging myself into a hole more with everything I say.
I do however still think that its important to have at least something that unites us as a nation. I have felt very good seeing how everyone has taken this weekend, loads of people coming together to celebrate and be happy, even if it is over something that doesnt hold a lot of meaning in the grand scheme of things.
I ended up getting drunk and singing God Save the Queen by the Sex Pistols.
I think the majority only care because we got a 4 day weekend and concerts.
This whole "cover everything in union flags" thing feels very BNP
Just watched Her Majesty emerge onto the balcony. I don't know about other UK members, but I found it to be impressive and touching to see all of those people gathered for that moment.
paul mccartney was shit.
[QUOTE=Lankist;36201542]
American politics are so vitriolic because there is an extreme sense of accountability. They aren't idols, they're human beings whose mistakes are to be known to all, and whose victories are to be examined very carefully
[/QUOTE]
Why are you making that comparison when it's no different in the UK?
[QUOTE=Tennisball;36208701]This whole "cover everything in union flags" thing feels very BNP[/QUOTE]
*American
I had a great weekend, celebrated, watched the Concert. Wooo England
[QUOTE=RobbL;36209225]Why are you making that comparison when it's no different in the UK?[/QUOTE]
It's no different for Parliament.
FYI royalty and parliament are two different things
if you look closely enough you will see that one of them has a crown and the other one has three chins and male pattern baldness
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