[QUOTE=mr apple;35314312]More like just white-knighting[/QUOTE]
Jeez this was a joke
Can't do anything without a drama fest in this thread, I don't get why it's always directed at detlef
Edit; I can see why rusty defends detlef now seeing how everyone just turns on her at any given time
I didn't think posting that pic would cause such a reaction, so I snipped it and thought "that was pretty stupid, I should draw something else and maybe they'll forget it" But I absolutely didnt want to cause this argument, I just want to continue posting art here, without the "manface" "girlyface" comments, I mean it doesn't really help me, some real critique would be great, like the stuff chesty posted on the previous page, that didnt focus on the subject matter but on technique and style.
[QUOTE=Detlef;35314467]I don't mock people for their art outside of the DA thread, I DON'T ignore your critiques, and I'm too afraid to give harsh critique because you guys get so fucking aggressive about it.
Can't you see theres two sides of this case? The way most of you try to "motivate" me with is just telling me I should shut up and take every thing I get thrown at me, some people give very nice critique, and I apriciate that, but some just tells it off in a very rude way, and no, I don't have to take that.
I'm getting SICK of you people's aggressive behavior towards me, just as much as you are getting sick of me being defensive. I didn't like the way you guys responded to my image, it was childish and in NO way helpful, and you can't decide how I will react to that.
When was the last time I was rude to anyone? Maybe I used to do that when I first came here, but that's not how I am now, I give critique sometimes, and I try to keep it short and focus on the stuff that needs the most improvement, they may not be amazingly written like lazylion's critiques or chesty's, but I'm not very good at wording what I mean.
So please, of you want me to stop acting like a defensive never improving crybaby, stop acting like an aggressive asshole towards me, because that'snot gonna help anything.[/QUOTE]
just ignore the rude people
its not hard
this is the internet for fucks sake
im sorry for snipping it.
[QUOTE=dgg;35314474]Oh come on.
No, it was rated dumb before I even posted. Now the dumbs most likely comes from the snip. It's pretty normal that people dumb rate people that snip, because snipping is stupid unless you've posted in a wrong thread.
How do you make the connection to terrible deviantart materail? I whyy'd because it's a manfaced anime girl.
It's like the two most condemned things on Facepunch. Anime, and manly women.[/QUOTE]
1- I meant the ratings on your post why-ing about the face, not on det's. I'm not even sure why that pic'd get dumb ratings pre-snip at all, it's an impressive piece regardless of being more realistically shaped than anime, which clearly causes a conflict because of the style expectation.
2-
[quote]WHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
I'm laughing my ass off here.[/quote]
I know you're a big anime guy and know what it's from, and probably see much more of that expectation conflict than others, but come on. This post can be misconstrued in so many ways
3- is anime even still a thing that rustles jimmies around here? It's been years since I've really seen any animosity toward it. I thought the main focus of condemnation has gone from anime to furries to ponies, each outshining the last so much that no one even bats an eye at the older subjects anymore
[editline]27th March 2012[/editline]
detlef what is your steam
your profile link thinger lies
[QUOTE=daijitsu;35314534]
3- is anime even still a thing that rustles jimmies around here? It's been years since I've really seen any animosity toward it. I thought the main focus of condemnation has gone from anime to furries to ponies, each outshining the last so much that no one even bats an eye at the older subjects anymore[/QUOTE]
no, anime is still bad and terrible
[QUOTE=Barnhouse;35314546]no, anime is still bad and terrible[/QUOTE]
for a member of an art forum that's a very closed minded comment to make
[editline]27th March 2012[/editline]
[IMG]http://hirvine.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/spirited_away_09.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Detlef;35314467]-blahblah-[/quote]
You're still mocking about the "artists" in the dA thread. I am not saying that anyone else hasn't do that too (which isn't something we should feel proud of), but when you're really getting sensitive about the same treatement done to you instead, your attitude makes you no better than these deviantards.
And the fact we have, like what, told you +10 times to do something about your actual mistakes, and you always argued about it. Some weren't really soft on their comments, thing everyone could agree on, but come on, that's something you have to expect everytime as an artist.
I hope you know that some professionals are going to tear up your works way more harder than any of us did. I'm even wondering how long you're going to last in the art industry (or in your art school if the professors are actually the kind of artists who are not going to soft their blow when criticizing).
Well uh... thanks for the crit but i suddenly dont want to work on the pic no more so i dont need to make those changes *forgets advice forever*
[QUOTE=Detlef;35314467]I don't mock people for their art outside of the DA thread, I DON'T ignore your critiques, and I'm too afraid to give harsh critique because you guys get so fucking aggressive about it.[/QUOTE]
Nobody but idiots gets aggressive about anyone giving harsh constructive critiques. Do you know how many years we've been doing that? We've had SO MANY crybabies that's been whining up all over this forum section crying and calling us mean and unfair and bitches, hoes monster demons fuckcunt douchebag fuckheads, you name it. What has the moderators and other members said? SUCK IT! TAKE IT LIKE A MAN! MAN UP! THIS IS THE INTERNET! IF YOU WANT NICE COMMENTS GO SHOW IT TO YOU MOM! Etc etc.
Facepunch has always stood for harsh constructive critiques but never been for harsh critiques. So as long as you're constructive in your critique there is no reason anyone should get angry at you, and if they do, fucking ignore them, badabom, badabing. You're right and they're pissed off for the wrong reasons, so either teach them to suck it or ignore them. End of.
The reason people ever get aggressive towards you critiquing is because you often blurt out "improve anatomy", "improve everything", etc, it's just critique, you tell them to improve basically everything there is and that doesn't really tell much. It can work sometimes when it basically looks like something a 5 year old drew, but in most cases it just isn't very nice nor helpful. Then some people jump the gun on you because if we say anything similar to you, or even give some constructive criticism (often repeated, but it's usually because it still needs to be said), then you have a habit of getting worked up over it and defensive. You take critique too personally, critique is aimed at your art, not you as a person, even if it most times feels like it's directed as you as a person it's wrong, it's because we have attachments to our own work and regard anything said about it as something said about us.
[QUOTE=Detlef;35314467]Can't you see theres two sides of this case? The way most of you try to "motivate" me with is just telling me I should shut up and take every thing I get thrown at me, some people give very nice critique, and I apriciate that, but some just tells it off in a very rude way, and no, I don't have to take that.[/QUOTE]
You misinterpret the meaning of shutting up and taking it like a man.
It means that you pick out anything constructive in what has been said and just ignore everything that's pure bullshit, offensive stupid irrelevant shit. So yes, DON'T TAKE THAT, IGNORE IT. When people are rude you have a choice to take it up and drag things out and cause drama, or just shut up about it and just pick out whatever positive things you can about it. And there always is something positive that comes out of even the stupidest and shittiest comments. People are different and you get excellent chances to pick up peoples different reactions and think about "why is he/she/it reacting in that way?", why is it shit? Think about it. Why in the world does this person call it shit? Is it a subjective matter of taste? Or is there something more to it? Can I see it if I try? Look at your artwork with a mindset of "this is shit" and then try and see if you can figure out why.
Maybe instead of telling the person to fuck off or get all worked up over it, just ask "Why do you think it's shit?", either they'll answer your question and hooray for that, or they'll spew some shit in which case you just ignore that person from then on.
[QUOTE=Detlef;35314467]I'm getting SICK of you people's aggressive behavior towards me, just as much as you are getting sick of me being defensive. I didn't like the way you guys responded to my image, it was childish and in NO way helpful, and you can't decide how I will react to that.[/QUOTE]
We're aggressive towards anyone and everyone. Some maybe less than others because they don't do anything we have a reason to be aggressive about, but you, as stated by both you and everyone else several times by now, tend to get a bit defensive and blow things up, taking it to personally, and whoopdedoo, people get worked up over you getting worked up over us.
We really don't care if you don't like our response to your image, that's what it means to post things on the internet, people WILL give you shit, and you'll just have to deal with it, because it's a plain simple fact. Everyone can't love everything you do, and they won't, and they will make that clear to you. As an artist it's important to recognize and accept the fact that you can't please everyone and start dealing with that, because it's important to behave, keep your temper and handle shitheads properly, especially if you want to do this professionally which I have understood since you've gotten into an art college and everything.
[QUOTE=Detlef;35314467]When was the last time I was rude to anyone? Maybe I used to do that when I first came here, but that's not how I am now, I give critique sometimes, and I try to keep it short and focus on the stuff that needs the most improvement, they may not be amazingly written like lazylion's critiques or chesty's, but I'm not very good at wording what I mean.[/QUOTE]
First impressions are the biggest impressions, and with months of harsh behaviour, and still the tendency to give vague undescriptive critique you really aren't improving that impression. If you have problems explaining yourself, you just need to work on that won't you? Start talking to yourself and debate about just why you feel like you feel, what is wrong what is right? Why is it? Why isn't it. Start thinking seriously about what you feel when you look at pieces and you will naturally learn to explain your feelings and thoughts more efficiently and naturally. Nobody starts off as a professional at anything, not even stating ones meanings.
[QUOTE=Detlef;35314467]So please, of you want me to stop acting like a defensive never improving crybaby, stop acting like an aggressive asshole towards me, because that'snot gonna help anything.[/QUOTE]
Thanks the same.
Jesusfuck Dgg you're a powerhouse
[editline]27th March 2012[/editline]
a mystical keyboard magician
[QUOTE=Barnhouse;35314546]no, anime is still bad and terrible[/QUOTE]
I don't even know if this can come under the category of an opinion
Shit is just straight ignorant dawg
What if I said anything painted in watercolour was bad and terrible
ok ok, i get it.
i dont know what really caused all this, but I want to end it, so I'll shut up and take it.
You guy's are right, i am too defensive and should just man up, stop drawing genderless characters, and actually improve.
[QUOTE=daijitsu;35314534]1- I meant the ratings on your post why-ing about the face, not on det's. I'm not even sure why that pic'd get dumb ratings pre-snip at all, it's an impressive piece regardless of being more realistically shaped than anime, which clearly causes a conflict because of the style expectation.
2- I know you're a big anime guy and know what it's from, and probably see much more of that expectation conflict than others, but come on. This post can be misconstrued in so many ways
3- is anime even still a thing that rustles jimmies around here? It's been years since I've really seen any animosity toward it. I thought the main focus of condemnation has gone from anime to furries to ponies, each outshining the last so much that no one even bats an eye at the older subjects anymore[/QUOTE]
1 & 2. I don't think the style expectation have much to do with it, it's just how it's drawn by itself. I don't expect it to look manga styled at all because it's not manga stylized.
3. It's getting more accepted in this art section as people are starting to understand there is badly drawn anime and well drawn anime. Rusty100 has probably been the biggest hater of anime here. But anime will always be hated just for simply being anime, and Facepunch is very much anti-anime, although it's getting quite the flood of anime watchers causing it to look otherwise because of all those goddamn anime avatars people just absolutely have to have.
[QUOTE=dgg;35314615]Big long text about taking harsh critique[/QUOTE]
I don't want to stir up any more shit but you just gave a long rant about taking and giving critique properly when your critique was just:
[QUOTE=dgg;35308413]WHHHHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
I'm laughing my ass off here.[/QUOTE]
and
[QUOTE=dgg;35308497]Well first of the whole fact that you even drew a character from Black Rock Shooter.
Then there is the whole manface. There is really nothing feminine about the face, the closest you get is what seems to be eyeliner.[/QUOTE]
Neither of those are particularly constructive. Just saying the face looks like a man is basically just as bad as saying the anatomy is wrong and not elaborating on it.
That said, Detlef, you really could do with taking this sort of thing less personally and you definitely shouldn't just stop posting because of it.
It's a bit like this girl I know who deletes, tries to IP track, makes a Facebook attention post and then writes a blog post every single time she gets a negative or troll comment on her blog. It's the internet, if it isn't constructive you should be able to ignore it and if it is it's better to just take it.
[QUOTE=Detlef;35314668]ok ok, i get it.
i dont know what really caused all this, but I want to end it, so I'll shut up and take it.
You guy's are right, i am too defensive and should just man up, stop drawing genderless characters, and actually improve.[/QUOTE]
and you should draw some more teen deer cause that shit is bitchin
damn dgg
though I do have to say there has been a lot more harsh critiquing and nitpicking of stuff detlef does lately, compared to others. It's very minute at times but things like that snarky comment about something needing antlers, and the really over-critical picking at that girl with the ram horns or whatever. Det's stuff is crazy, but it seems the harder she works at something the harder some people really jab at it
[QUOTE=dgg;35314675]1 & 2. I don't think the style expectation have much to do with it, it's just how it's drawn by itself. I don't expect it to look manga styled at all because it's not manga stylized.
3. It's getting more accepted in this art section as people are starting to understand there is badly drawn anime and well drawn anime. Rusty100 has probably been the biggest hater of anime here. But anime will always be hated just for simply being anime, and Facepunch is very much anti-anime, although it's getting quite the flood of anime watchers causing it to look otherwise because of all those goddamn anime avatars people just absolutely have to have.[/QUOTE]
I get ya, though I think the face shape is still feminine on a strictly realistic scale, though very youthful. early teenager cheeks kinda vibe I get from a handful of things, which honestly is in the right place for the characters involved.
I remember anime hate being epidemic-level, like people would derail a thread just to bitch about someone having an anime avatar
speaking of derailments and anime
I'm still having trouble with getting back into faces for a cartooned/animeish style. It isn't a goal to draw ~anime~ as an end result, but some character design and cartooning work is on my to-do list in re-working my drawing stuff
[t]http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1489/screenshot2012032705461.png[/t]
wonky
pretty please
[QUOTE=MakoSkyDub;35314655]I don't even know if this can come under the category of an opinion
Shit is just straight ignorant dawg
What if I said anything painted in watercolour was bad and terrible[/QUOTE]
god i was joking
hey mate I'm automerging here.
[QUOTE=daijitsu;35314780]
I get ya, though I think the face shape is still feminine on a strictly realistic scale, though very youthful. early teenager cheeks kinda vibe I get from a handful of things, which honestly is in the right place for the characters involved.
I remember anime hate being epidemic-level, like people would derail a thread just to bitch about someone having an anime avatar
speaking of derailments and anime
I'm still having trouble with getting back into faces for a cartooned/animeish style. It isn't a goal to draw ~anime~ as an end result, but some character design and cartooning work is on my to-do list in re-working my drawing stuff
[t]http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1489/screenshot2012032705461.png[/t]
wonky[/QUOTE]
you can probably study an anime style that doesn't have the huge eyes bit like the picture that was posted last page
or for cartoons you can probably look at oh say, old 50's cartoons or vault boy.
For general head anatomy Your ears are way high and the mouth doesn't have much depth to it, it looks like it's textured on a bit.
You got a lotta different styles in the same drawing. painterly for the neck and shoulder, bold lined edge for the mouth and face outline, and a sketchy look for the hair, and it's a bit odd.
[QUOTE=Detlef;35314467]A lot of words[/QUOTE]
Your points are fair, I get it. It's a motivation thing, not necessarily a take-it-like-a-man thing. Your art is still good. Massive difference.
But feel free to batter me, I work that way. :v:
I feel like anime is a waste of talent, in that if it's not different enough to distinguish itself from the rest, it's just going to fade into the endless sea of anime. Yes there's good examples of it, like the ghibli movies. But generally even the most well drawn anime is the same as every other well drawn anime if it doesn't have anything that sets it apart. It's a style that's pretty over saturated as it is, and so unless you have something new and unique to spin it into, which doesn't come by often (not that you can't try), drawing anime is squandering of talent.
[QUOTE=mr apple;35314519]
Can't do anything without a drama fest in this thread, I don't get why it's always directed at detlef
Edit; I can see why rusty defends detlef now seeing how everyone just turns on her at any given time[/QUOTE]
Who whiteknighting now :v:
Gonna address this to Det so I'm talking to her and not about her;
Almost, if not all, of the drama is a direct result of you crying wolf too often. You get a pinprick, you yelp like it was a damn knife in your back. People are all trying to let you see their perspective, and ultimately trying to bring you to a comfortable place in this little community where everyone gets along and no one takes offense over small time shit. I empathise with you about being defensive, because everyone does give you a rough time even when their intentions are good. This is in part because the same cycle of events keeps on rolling around and no one's getting any fonder of it, but also you gotta remember that only a few months ago you came off hard as a rock. Most of your contribution consisted of barbed one-liners at people's art, straight to the point. It's pretty bipolar of you to now be so self-conscious and sensitive (don't get me wrong, I like you better now than I did back then.)
Nobody's trying to get you down or discourage you. Even when actual content of posts directed at you is aggressive, the intention is always gonna be to your benefit.
yeh, the ears have been bugging me but I've been focusing more on making the eyes look not terrible. It's all just kinda roughed out, I started it a bit before doodling on det's pic.literally slapped the lips on last second because I didn't want to screencap it with a linemouth, heh
also I roughed the whole thing out painterly just to block shapes and as I've gotten more into it I started adding lines just to quick-sharpen it out. My biggest concern is just making the whole thing the right shape, much less look 'finished', so all the shading has been an effort to help me think a bit more about what shapes are where and keep me tweaking things to look more symmetrical/whatever
in other news I made myself a square-brush in paint tool SAI and absolutely love it, I don't even know why
This thread suddenly turned into un grand nombre de drama.
Can we focus on art and art criticism now please?
I think there's a thread somewhere for random discussions in CC.
[QUOTE=Barnhouse;35314783]god i was joking[/QUOTE]
Didn't seem like it
But if you were, my bad
[QUOTE=mac338;35314887]This thread suddenly turned into un grand nombre de drama.
Can we focus on art and art criticism now please?
I think there's a thread somewhere for random discussions in CC.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://img1.uploadscreenshot.com/images/orig/3/8522010277-orig.png[/IMG]
C&C
So does anyone have any tips or guides on how to draw hands? I always mess up the proportions so I try to avoid drawing hands.
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