• Do you support cloning of animals and humans?
    125 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Pythagoras;27516052]Not my point at all. Why would you need to make an exact copy in the first place? Other than to violate their rights as a human and harvest them for organs, I can't think of a good reason. If it's just for the sake of making a new human being, might as well just do it the normal way and save yourself a couple hundred grand.[/QUOTE] All humans (excluding twins) are different. They have many strengths and weaknesses. Some have more strengths than weaknesses, or the other way around. It makes humans interesting. If we clone the best of the best human available and create copies of that person, then we could get shit down [editline]19th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;27516080]Apparently you wouldn't because that's his plan according to the OP. The ability to harvest people's organs is a pro of human cloning, apparently.[/QUOTE] Sometimes you need to spend lives to save lives. 1 clone can save at least 6 lives (2 lungs, 2 kidneys, 1 heart, 1 liver)
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;27523297]Sometimes you need to spend lives to save lives. 1 clone can save at least 6 lives (2 lungs, 2 kidneys, 1 heart, 1 liver)[/QUOTE] Saving lives does not justify that in any sense. It's one thing for someone to give their life to save others, it's another for you to create a person and give it no rights.
If they can clone my pet cat tank that disappeared one day then yeah :smithicide:
There's not any real need to clone a human being. The only advantage you'd realistically get out of that is spare organs, and those could be grown separately, humanely, much more quickly, and at a fraction of the cost. And don't even start into the idea of free labor/soldiers, since we'd probably have advanced robotics by the time we're able to make genetically stable clones, and they'd be superior in every way to the average cloned soldier (or, at least fills the niche of expandability most clone soldiers are made to fill.)
No i do not.
I don't see the problem with cloning. I think that if we create clones we may also kill them.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;27523552]Saving lives does not justify that in any sense. It's one thing for someone to give their life to save others, it's another for you to create a person and give it no rights.[/QUOTE] Like Frankie said, we gave it live, we have a right to take it away. I know you're thinking I'm insane. But sometimes you need to make sacrifices for the greater good. If we teach them this, then they would understand.
We could always just grow clones that are braindead from the start for organ harvesting and that.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;27524479]Like Frankie said, we gave it live, we have a right to take it away. I know you're thinking I'm insane. But sometimes you need to make sacrifices for the greater good. If we teach them this, then they would understand.[/QUOTE] [b]DOWN WITH THE HIPPIES![/b] [sp]/c[/sp] Just kidding we can't live without the treehuggers (clonehuggers in this case) but sometimes they're just being dumb, well that is from my point of view.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;27524479]Like Frankie said, we gave it live, we have a right to take it away. I know you're thinking I'm insane. But sometimes you need to make sacrifices for the greater good. If we teach them this, then they would understand.[/QUOTE] Making a sacrifice like that is only morally justifiable if it's consented to. Sending a brigade into certain death to buy civilians time to escape and survive is morally justifiable, soldiers know they face death when they sign up. (excepting conscription) Also, your "reasoning" would make filicide morally defensible. (Which it is not.) [editline]19th January 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Franke_R!?;27524033]I don't see the problem with cloning. I think that if we create clones we may also kill them.[/QUOTE] Oh right I totally forgot that we don't have any laws regarding how parents may treat their children whatsoever.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;27524921] [editline]19th January 2011[/editline] Oh right I totally forgot that we don't have any laws regarding how parents may treat their children whatsoever.[/QUOTE] But children are not clones. A clone is a copy of a person of animal that already exists and not a child who can become someone completely new. Perhaps clones can get their own identity but only time will tell.
Only if you say the magic word :colbert:
One of the cons you missed out is that cloning anything reduced the gene pool, which means what ever you're cloning wont be different in any way further down the family line.
[QUOTE=Franke_R!?;27524974]But children are not clones. A clone is a copy of a person of animal that already exists and not a child who can become someone completely new. Perhaps clones can get their own identity but only time will tell.[/QUOTE] You're right we should be able to use one of our kids as a sex slave if we have identical twins because they are clearly a redundant copy. You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?
Why not clone things?
Let's clone a shitload of people and make them fight for my entertainment
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;27525058]You're right we should be able to use one of our kids as a sex slave if we have identical twins because they are clearly a redundant copy. You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you?[/QUOTE] I have an idea what I am talking about you just have a different point of view.
[QUOTE=Lufttygger306;27525162]Why not clone things?[/QUOTE] It's unnecessary in the case of cloning complete human beings.
[QUOTE=Franke_R!?;27525221]I have an idea what I am talking about you just have a different point of view.[/QUOTE] Based on what you just said identical twins would be exactly the same person and we should do whatever the fuck with one of them because they clearly don't matter at all. Two people are not the same even if they are genetically identical unless they are placed in precisely the same circumstances. That is not opinion.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;27525338]Based on what you just said identical twins would be exactly the same person and we should do whatever the fuck with one of them because they clearly don't matter at all. Two people are not the same even if they are genetically identical unless they are placed in precisely the same circumstances. That is not opinion.[/QUOTE] A twin is not a clone. What I said is what I said no need to read it any other way.
[QUOTE=Franke_R!?;27525393]A twin is not a clone. What I said is what I said no need to read it any other way.[/QUOTE] How does that change this statement in the slightest: [quote]Two people are not the same even if they are genetically identical unless they are placed in precisely the same circumstances.[/quote]
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;27524921]Making a sacrifice like that is only morally justifiable if it's consented to. Sending a brigade into certain death to buy civilians time to escape and survive is morally justifiable, soldiers know they face death when they sign up. (excepting conscription) Also, your "reasoning" would make filicide morally defensible. (Which it is not.) [editline]19th January 2011[/editline] Oh right I totally forgot that we don't have any laws regarding how parents may treat their children whatsoever.[/QUOTE] They're just clones. I don't think anyone cares about morals when it comes to using cloned humans for the greater good. We'll just make sure the clones will die peacefully before the organs are being extracted.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;27525451]They're just clones. I don't think anyone cares about morals when it comes to using cloned humans for the greater good.[/QUOTE] I forgot the world was peopled entirely by sociopaths, you're right.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;27525451]They're just clones. I don't think anyone cares about morals when it comes to using cloned humans for the greater good. We'll just make sure the clones will die peacefully before the organs are being extracted.[/QUOTE] Why not just grow the organs without having to go through the hassle of having a clone? As I said previously, it's ethical, cheaper, quicker, and utilizes pretty achievable technology. Whereas a clone is controversial, hideously expensive, takes a while to fully grow, and utilizes technology we don't really have.
Yes what a hassle who wants to bother with the kicking and screaming and pleading
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;27525515]Yes what a hassle who wants to bother with the kicking and screaming and pleading[/QUOTE] They're obviously not realizing those aspects of the drawbacks of cloning, so I'm trying to say the same thing from an approach they may understand. If you're dealing with someone who doesn't really see the ethical drawbacks of an issue in a debate, it's a lot more fruitful to argue how it's unprofitable or not economically viable compared to other solutions.
I'm not going to dilute the content of my argument because they lack basic human decency.
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;27525583]I'm not going to dilute the content of my argument because they lack basic human decency.[/QUOTE] Alright, you do it your way, I'll do it my way.
omg it's an abomination [img]http://www.healthpm.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/identical-twins.jpg[/img]
harvest one for organs!
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