• Male pattern baldness - General Chat Thread
    82 replies, posted
Merck did some dodgy shit with manipulation of data w/r/t the side effects of propecia. Independent studies put the rate of side effects at twice or three times that of the merck funded testing. That said, yes the prevalence of side effects is greatly exaggerated. That also said, DHT inhibitors are a foolish idea for young men, considering male puberty isn't considered complete until ~25 in a lot of cases, and DHT is *vital* to proper male development, not only in sexual characteristics, but your brain and nervous system function as well. The MPB market is a joke, they've been relying on a crude systemic 5AR inhibitor for decades now, when the real goal of treatment should be to locally inhibit 5AR/androgen action in the hair follicle, and avoid systemic inactivation of an important androgen. Good news is a promising local anti-androgen is coming to market for acne treatment soon (acne and MPB share similar pathology, both are primarily androgen related disorders), CB-03-01 (chemical name 17alpha-propionate) This looks very promising, it exhibits anti-androgen effect as strong, or stronger than propecia/finasteride locally, but converts rapidly in the skin to an inactive substance before it hits the bloodstream, leading to *zero* systemic effect on endocrine function.
I'm 23 and I "suffer" from this. [img]https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/q71/s720x720/1486814_258517610968386_359024566_n.jpg[/img] It doesn't bother me these days, it's part of who I am.
The beard makes it all okay again, looks good man.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;43122874]Merck did some dodgy shit with manipulation of data w/r/t the side effects of propecia. Independent studies put the rate of side effects at twice or three times that of the merck funded testing. That said, yes the prevalence of side effects is greatly exaggerated. That also said, DHT inhibitors are a foolish idea for young men, considering male puberty isn't considered complete until ~25 in a lot of cases, and DHT is *vital* to proper male development, not only in sexual characteristics, but your brain and nervous system function as well. The MPB market is a joke, they've been relying on a crude systemic 5AR inhibitor for decades now, when the real goal of treatment should be to locally inhibit 5AR/androgen action in the hair follicle, and avoid systemic inactivation of an important androgen. Good news is a promising local anti-androgen is coming to market for acne treatment soon (acne and MPB share similar pathology, both are primarily androgen related disorders), CB-03-01 (chemical name 17alpha-propionate) This looks very promising, it exhibits anti-androgen effect as strong, or stronger than propecia/finasteride locally, but converts rapidly in the skin to an inactive substance before it hits the bloodstream, leading to *zero* systemic effect on endocrine function.[/QUOTE] Agreed, the side effects it could have on my brain and nervous system has me scared the most honestly. Of course I'm still considering seeing if going on a smaller dose (0.25 or 0.5 mg) every other day and see how that works and how side effect free I am.. the long term repercussions are what frighten me the most. There have been claims that the way it inhibits the 5AR inhibitor, after a long period of time the body isn't able to produce it quite like before even after stopping the use of the drug, of course I don't know a lot of the science behind it. I'm only turning 20 in a few months and the idea of fucking up my body for aesthetics seems incredibly dumb, as depressing as hairloss can be at times. I've heard of CB-03-01 and I agree that it looks very promising, although nothing of its side effects is known at this point right? Also there isn't really a proper/good vehicle I think at the moment for it either.. but I got my fingers crossed for that one. hopefully my hairloss doesn't progress much further before it arrives
Well, something to consider: the way CB-03-01 is currently used in trials, is for acne. They are [I]slathering[/I] this shit over entire backs and seeing no systemic effect. I'm fairly confident then, in saying that a small amount applied on someones scalp, carries little to no risk of systemic action. But yes, you can acquire it at the moment from chemical suppliers, but the problem is no one knows what is an effective vehicle. Cosmo is remaining tight lipped on their patent, rightfully so honestly. If you want to use something that is effective yet receives markedly little attention because people dont use it correctly: Nizoral (ketoconazole) shampoo at 2% strength. Rub it deep into the scalp, and leave it on over night. Theres a number of studies now showing Ketoconazole shampoo is an effective topical anti-androgen. Using every night or every other night for best effect. Problem is in practice people rub it in for all of a few minutes, wash it out and then go "omg this shit is snake oil"
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;43156806]Well, something to consider: the way CB-03-01 is currently used in trials, is for acne. They are [I]slathering[/I] this shit over entire backs and seeing no systemic effect. I'm fairly confident then, in saying that a small amount applied on someones scalp, carries little to no risk of systemic action. But yes, you can acquire it at the moment from chemical suppliers, but the problem is no one knows what is an effective vehicle. Cosmo is remaining tight lipped on their patent, rightfully so honestly. If you want to use something that is effective yet receives markedly little attention because people dont use it correctly: Nizoral (ketoconazole) shampoo at 2% strength. Rub it deep into the scalp, and leave it on over night. Theres a number of studies now showing Ketoconazole shampoo is an effective topical anti-androgen. Using every night or every other night for best effect. Problem is in practice people rub it in for all of a few minutes, wash it out and then go "omg this shit is snake oil"[/QUOTE] It's definitely encouraging to know that only figuring out a vehicle is the only thing that stands between getting it on the market. I was going to get on nizoral pretty soon before I even thought of finasteride, but I've never read anywhere about it being that effective of an topic anti androgen. I thought it was suggested for twice a week only otherwise it bothers your hair? I have yet to hear it being used on a daily basis but that's interesting, I'll look into that
[QUOTE=lum1naire;43157336]It's definitely encouraging to know that only figuring out a vehicle is the only thing that stands between getting it on the market. I was going to get on nizoral pretty soon before I even thought of finasteride, but I've never read anywhere about it being that effective of an topic anti androgen. I thought it was suggested for twice a week only otherwise it bothers your hair? I have yet to hear it being used on a daily basis but that's interesting, I'll look into that[/QUOTE] There are numerous studies backing its efficiency. ITs not a cure of course, but it for most people, used correctly it will greatly slow down MPB. Nizoral can dry your hair out, but I had no problems using it every other day and leaving it on overnight, YMMV. Tell you one thing though, you will never have dandruff while using nizoral. Ever. Eliminates the shit. Problem is most people get their information from hair loss communities, which sounds fine until you consider the culture of worry and despair these communities foster - [I]everthing sucks, im going to kill myself, nothing works, its all snake oil, my hair didnt regrow in a week of using this shit it doesnt work women dont love me abloo bloo[/I] Really these places are toxic as fuck. I cant count how many posts Ive seen dudes trying to tell themselves and others that its nature trying to write their "inferior" genes out of the human race. Despite evidence posted to the contrary. Its all rather bizarre and absurd.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;43169233]There are numerous studies backing its efficiency. ITs not a cure of course, but it for most people, used correctly it will greatly slow down MPB. Nizoral can dry your hair out, but I had no problems using it every other day and leaving it on overnight, YMMV. Tell you one thing though, you will never have dandruff while using nizoral. Ever. Eliminates the shit. Problem is most people get their information from hair loss communities, which sounds fine until you consider the culture of worry and despair these communities foster - [I]everthing sucks, im going to kill myself, nothing works, its all snake oil, my hair didnt regrow in a week of using this shit it doesnt work women dont love me abloo bloo[/I] Really these places are toxic as fuck. I cant count how many posts Ive seen dudes trying to tell themselves and others that its nature trying to write their "inferior" genes out of the human race. Despite evidence posted to the contrary. Its all rather bizarre and absurd.[/QUOTE] I see well I am definitely going to look into getting some nizoral shampoo ASAP. Just curious though when you say you let it sit on your scalp overnight, you rub it in and then like not wash your hair or something and just go to sleep? And I still agree with you about hair loss communities being toxic, I'd urge anyone to never visit those websites. They won't help your self confidence any and if anything make you feel worse about yourself.
[QUOTE=lum1naire;43175295]I see well I am definitely going to look into getting some nizoral shampoo ASAP. Just curious though when you say you let it sit on your scalp overnight, you rub it in and then like not wash your hair or something and just go to sleep? And I still agree with you about hair loss communities being toxic, I'd urge anyone to never visit those websites. They won't help your self confidence any and if anything make you feel worse about yourself.[/QUOTE] Yes, rub it in very well, let it dry, which wont take long and then go to sleep. Wash it out in the morning.
Since baldness is an androgen-related disorder like acne, does having acne (and other signs of high androgen levels like thick body hair) mean you are automatically more predisposed to baldness than other people, or are there other elements to it
[QUOTE=Zeke129;43175335]Since baldness is an androgen-related disorder like acne, does having acne (and other signs of high androgens like thick body hair) mean you are automatically more predisposed to baldness than other people, or are there other elements to it[/QUOTE] AFAIK there are other elements to it, but both have a general pathology of high 5AR activity in the skin and follicle respectively.
Is losing hair due to stress common? I tend to lose I bit when I worry about something over a long period of time (exams, driving tests, those sort of things).
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;43175334]Yes, rub it in very well, let it dry, which wont take long and then go to sleep. Wash it out in the morning.[/QUOTE] Just to make sure again, you've faced no issues with your scalp? Because I've heard time and time again letting keto sit on your scalp will do harsh things to it due to the chemicals it contains
[QUOTE=lum1naire;43156252]Agreed, the side effects it could have on my brain and nervous system has me scared the most honestly. Of course I'm still considering seeing if going on a smaller dose (0.25 or 0.5 mg) every other day and see how that works and how side effect free I am.. the long term repercussions are what frighten me the most. There have been claims that the way it inhibits the 5AR inhibitor, after a long period of time the body isn't able to produce it quite like before even after stopping the use of the drug, of course I don't know a lot of the science behind it. I'm only turning 20 in a few months and the idea of fucking up my body for aesthetics seems incredibly dumb, as depressing as hairloss can be at times. I've heard of CB-03-01 and I agree that it looks very promising, although nothing of its side effects is known at this point right? Also there isn't really a proper/good vehicle I think at the moment for it either.. but I got my fingers crossed for that one. hopefully my hairloss doesn't progress much further before it arrives[/QUOTE] Keep in mind, finasteride primarily blocks AR2, not AR1. Most of T which would normally be converted to DHT is still being converted. Honestly if you don't want to take the risk, [B]don't[/B]. You may worry yourself over side-effects that much you might actually get them as a sort of placebo. But if you're dead-set on keeping hair, get a blood test and then hop on propecia then get another blood test a few months later. If you get any sides, go straight off it, a huge portion of people with permanent damage to bodily function is because they continued taking the drug after having side effects. However permanent damage instances are very rare. Also keep in mind propecia may not regrow your hair, or even keep it, only slow down the process of MPB, the body builds a tolerance to the drug though in some cases and it becomes less effective after 5 years apparently. I had a blood test before going on propecia and 8 months after, I had 10% higher testosterone levels after being on propecia, everything else was very similar to my first test. According to my doctor that's nothing to worry about because it's normal to fluctuate in that vicinity. My progress is looking better and better though, I'm quite lucky, my natural hairline is almost back. [QUOTE=Whomobile;43180433]Is losing hair due to stress common? I tend to lose I bit when I worry about something over a long period of time (exams, driving tests, those sort of things).[/QUOTE] My previous comment was pretty broad about this, stress does not cause baldness (in the fashion of MPB progression). If you're stressed and lose hair it would be all over. Don't worry about MPB in that case. If it looks like this: [URL="http://nshts.com/norwood.html"]http://nshts.com/norwood.html[/URL] then you may want to see a specialist and they'll confirm whether or not the hair follicles are miniaturizing and whether or not it's male pattern baldness, only then should you consider a treatment or just shave your head when it recedes. [QUOTE=Zeke129;43175335]Since baldness is an androgen-related disorder like acne, does having acne (and other signs of high androgen levels like thick body hair) mean you are automatically more predisposed to baldness than other people, or are there other elements to it[/QUOTE] Baldness is not related to androgen levels from my knowledge, just the conversion method of T to DHT via AR-2, which introduces a sensitivity to DHT to follicles on the scalp. People who are bald may have the same levels of DHT or T as someone who is not balding, it really doesn't mean someone is more or less masculine. Acne is from a range of various hormones (estrogen, estradiol, testosterone, DHT etc) and has many different causes. And body hair is related to DHT/T, which is also quite irrelevant to the process of balding. [QUOTE=JaegerMonster;43169233]There are numerous studies backing its efficiency. ITs not a cure of course, but it for most people, used correctly it will greatly slow down MPB. Nizoral can dry your hair out, but I had no problems using it every other day and leaving it on overnight, YMMV. Tell you one thing though, you will never have dandruff while using nizoral. Ever. Eliminates the shit. Problem is most people get their information from hair loss communities, which sounds fine until you consider the culture of worry and despair these communities foster - [I]everthing sucks, im going to kill myself, nothing works, its all snake oil, my hair didnt regrow in a week of using this shit it doesnt work women dont love me abloo bloo[/I] Really these places are toxic as fuck. I cant count how many posts Ive seen dudes trying to tell themselves and others that its nature trying to write their "inferior" genes out of the human race. Despite evidence posted to the contrary. Its all rather bizarre and absurd.[/QUOTE] I can't agree more, stay the fuck away from those sites, a lot of people there have huge issues with depression. Yeah hairloss sucks a lot, its not the end of the world though. Also did you see much difference with nizoral? I never tried it. Minoxidil dries the fuck out of my scalp because it contains alcohol so it doesn't stay greasy on your head and creates dandruff, would nizoral help much in that case do you reckon?
[QUOTE=Azza;43292615]Keep in mind, finasteride primarily blocks AR2, not AR1. Most of T which would normally be converted to DHT is still being converted. Honestly if you don't want to take the risk, [B]don't[/B]. You may worry yourself over side-effects that much you might actually get them as a sort of placebo. But if you're dead-set on keeping hair, get a blood test and then hop on propecia then get another blood test a few months later. If you get any sides, go straight off it, a huge portion of people with permanent damage to bodily function is because they continued taking the drug after having side effects. However permanent damage instances are very rare. Also keep in mind propecia may not regrow your hair, or even keep it, only slow down the process of MPB, the body builds a tolerance to the drug though in some cases and it becomes less effective after 5 years apparently. I had a blood test before going on propecia and 8 months after, I had 10% higher testosterone levels after being on propecia, everything else was very similar to my first test. According to my doctor that's nothing to worry about because it's normal to fluctuate in that vicinity. My progress is looking better and better though, I'm quite lucky, my natural hairline is almost back. My previous comment was pretty broad about this, stress does not cause baldness (in the fashion of MPB progression). If you're stressed and lose hair it would be all over. Don't worry about MPB in that case. If it looks like this: [URL="http://nshts.com/norwood.html"]http://nshts.com/norwood.html[/URL] then you may want to see a specialist and they'll confirm whether or not the hair follicles are miniaturizing and whether or not it's male pattern baldness, only then should you consider a treatment or just shave your head when it recedes. Baldness is not related to androgen levels from my knowledge, just the conversion method of T to DHT via AR-2, which introduces a sensitivity to DHT to follicles on the scalp. People who are bald may have the same levels of DHT or T as someone who is not balding, it really doesn't mean someone is more or less masculine. Acne is from a range of various hormones (estrogen, estradiol, testosterone, DHT etc) and has many different causes. And body hair is related to DHT/T, which is also quite irrelevant to the process of balding. I can't agree more, stay the fuck away from those sites, a lot of people there have huge issues with depression. Yeah hairloss sucks a lot, its not the end of the world though. Also did you see much difference with nizoral? I never tried it. Minoxidil dries the fuck out of my scalp because it contains alcohol so it doesn't stay greasy on your head and creates dandruff, would nizoral help much in that case do you reckon?[/QUOTE] I'll definitely take a blood tests and monitor everything if I do try out finasteride. What worries me again is even if I'm side effect free, if I get on it and after a couple of years stop and suddenly get persistent side effects. I've read this happening to a lot of people, but again anecdotal evidence is so unreliable and creates a lot of doubt still. I'm going to try jaegers nizoral thing out and see if it slows down my hair loss any, since the past few weeks I've noticed it's picked up again (goes through phases of long little to no shedding to short bursts of increased shedding). If that doesn't work I may have no other choice but to hop onto propecia :/
[QUOTE=lum1naire;43338952]I'll definitely take a blood tests and monitor everything if I do try out finasteride. What worries me again is even if I'm side effect free, if I get on it and after a couple of years stop and suddenly get persistent side effects. I've read this happening to a lot of people, but again anecdotal evidence is so unreliable and creates a lot of doubt still. I'm going to try jaegers nizoral thing out and see if it slows down my hair loss any, since the past few weeks I've noticed it's picked up again (goes through phases of long little to no shedding to short bursts of increased shedding). If that doesn't work I may have no other choice but to hop onto propecia :/[/QUOTE] If you don't want to take the plunge with finasteride you can always use minoxidil, however there are side effects with it too like there is with anything. See [URL="http://www.drugs.com/sfx/minoxidil-side-effects.html"][U]here[/U][/URL] for a comprehensive list. This will regrow your hair and replace the thin hair on your head, however you must keep using minoxidil or any hair you regained will fall out. Shit's expensive though, I go for foam in 12 month supplies at a time and it's around $160 (Will usually last 9 - 10 months realistically). Can't say I've had any problems with finasteride though. But definitely have a look into minoxidil foam, works damn well, just don't get disheartened if you try it and you get a shedding phase, that's normal due to hairs being replaced. (:
[QUOTE=Azza;43341114]If you don't want to take the plunge with finasteride you can always use minoxidil, however there are side effects with it too like there is with anything. See [URL="http://www.drugs.com/sfx/minoxidil-side-effects.html"][U]here[/U][/URL] for a comprehensive list. This will regrow your hair and replace the thin hair on your head, however you must keep using minoxidil or any hair you regained will fall out. Shit's expensive though, I go for foam in 12 month supplies at a time and it's around $160 (Will usually last 9 - 10 months realistically). Can't say I've had any problems with finasteride though. But definitely have a look into minoxidil foam, works damn well, just don't get disheartened if you try it and you get a shedding phase, that's normal due to hairs being replaced. (:[/QUOTE] Yeah I might try minoxidil, thing is I don't feel it's too effective on it's own. Your hair is still falling out, its just thickening up some other hair, it won't really help all that much unless you're on something like finasteride to halt hair loss then help with regrowth. I may just have to take the plunge with finasteride sooner or later, there really is no other solid cure for MPB on the market. It's shitty how it's the only option available.. but it might be the only thing that can buy me time until other treatments eventually (if ever knowing how long the FDA process can take) surface. I know I'll regret it later if I get on it too late as of right now I'm still NW2 with no noticeable thinning, although I can feel it getting there, but I could definitely reverse some damage. I wish CB would come out with a vehicle to treat MPB hair loss sooner instead they opted for acne treatment first which is so frustrating. If CB was on the market I'd definitely jump on it in a heartbeat. I think if I do get on finasteride, I'm going to take an incredibly low dosage to start with. Something like 0.25 mg every other day or something for awhile and see how my body adjusts, and if it has an affect on my hair, since studies have showed anything over 0.2 mg doesn't have a huge change in the amount of DHT suppressed iirc. If need be I can always taper up if I'm side effect free and need to see better results I suppose. Assuming I do take the plunge.
[QUOTE=lum1naire;43380789]Yeah I might try minoxidil, thing is I don't feel it's too effective on it's own. Your hair is still falling out, its just thickening up some other hair, it won't really help all that much unless you're on something like finasteride to halt hair loss then help with regrowth. I may just have to take the plunge with finasteride sooner or later, there really is no other solid cure for MPB on the market. It's shitty how it's the only option available.. but it might be the only thing that can buy me time until other treatments eventually (if ever knowing how long the FDA process can take) surface. I know I'll regret it later if I get on it too late as of right now I'm still NW2 with no noticeable thinning, although I can feel it getting there, but I could definitely reverse some damage. I wish CB would come out with a vehicle to treat MPB hair loss sooner instead they opted for acne treatment first which is so frustrating. If CB was on the market I'd definitely jump on it in a heartbeat. I think if I do get on finasteride, I'm going to take an incredibly low dosage to start with. Something like 0.25 mg every other day or something for awhile and see how my body adjusts, and if it has an affect on my hair, since studies have showed anything over 0.2 mg doesn't have a huge change in the amount of DHT suppressed iirc. If need be I can always taper up if I'm side effect free and need to see better results I suppose. Assuming I do take the plunge.[/QUOTE] I feel you're underestimating minoxidil, 5% strength is generally quite effective. Anyway, the sweet spot for finasteride is 1mg, there's an effectiveness curve I saw in a study that showed anything over 1mg had no extra benefits, and that 0.5mg was ~80% as effective as 1mg. I'll source this in the morning when I'm not on my phone. Trying 0.2mg sounds like a good idea, if you can find a pharmacy-sold (not online pharmacies, a lot of fakes are going around) tablet that has that much (also don't bother with pill cutters for that amount) if not I'd just go with propecia first.
[QUOTE=Tasm;43390646]I feel you're underestimating minoxidil, 5% strength is generally quite effective. Anyway, the sweet spot for finasteride is 1mg, there's an effectiveness curve I saw in a study that showed anything over 1mg had no extra benefits, and that 0.5mg was ~80% as effective as 1mg. I'll source this in the morning when I'm not on my phone. Trying 0.2mg sounds like a good idea, if you can find a pharmacy-sold (not online pharmacies, a lot of fakes are going around) tablet that has that much (also don't bother with pill cutters for that amount) if not I'd just go with propecia first.[/QUOTE] you won't find a pharmacy sold tablet less than 1 mg I don't think. pill cutting propecia is really the only option (or some other 1 mg generic version of it) yea I saw the same curve you're talking about, I think 0.25 mg was around 60-70% as effective. I need to just schedule an appointment with a good derm or GP or something and talk to them or something I don't know.. I empathize good because a lot of them don't really know what their talking about, going from experience when I saw one a few years ago when I first noticed my hair loss. I'm not claiming 5% minox isn't effective, just that it won't stop your MPB from progressing. I suppose it can help you maintain to a certain degree for max a year or two depending how good of a responder you are. It's generally best paired with finasteride which halts the hairloss though from what I know Cosmo is releasing more info on CB this month I think.. however because of how the whole process with the FDA works, who knows when and if we'll ever seen it. Not for a couple of years at least :/ Assuming they go forward however they plan to with it.
[QUOTE=lum1naire;43401092]you won't find a pharmacy sold tablet less than 1 mg I don't think. pill cutting propecia is really the only option (or some other 1 mg generic version of it) yea I saw the same curve you're talking about, I think 0.25 mg was around 60-70% as effective. I need to just schedule an appointment with a good derm or GP or something and talk to them or something I don't know.. I empathize good because a lot of them don't really know what their talking about, going from experience when I saw one a few years ago when I first noticed my hair loss. I'm not claiming 5% minox isn't effective, just that it won't stop your MPB from progressing. I suppose it can help you maintain to a certain degree for max a year or two depending how good of a responder you are. It's generally best paired with finasteride which halts the hairloss though from what I know Cosmo is releasing more info on CB this month I think.. however because of how the whole process with the FDA works, who knows when and if we'll ever seen it. Not for a couple of years at least :/ Assuming they go forward however they plan to with it.[/QUOTE] Pill cutting propecia is pretty silly tbh since the finasteride isn't evenly spread in the tablet, you'll end up getting fluctuating amounts of finasteride which could potentially be more risky than taking a stable 1mg per day. I've stopped finasteride once before for about 3 weeks, my hormones went a little bit crazy, and all of a sudden I was producing way too much testosterone (I got hot flushes, a bit of roid rage, and I felt angry/irritable for a while). My point is, if you take finasteride your body adapts to it and creates a new equilibrium in the endocrine system. Taking a stable amount lets your body keep that equilibrium, if you cut pills and since it is not evenly distributed you are getting fluctuating amounts, which in turn may fuck with your hormones, and not only that, you may be getting dosages of 0.1mg, 0.5, 0.05 or whatever and it won't be as effective as you think, and you may lose hair relatively quickly due to the reduced efficiency at blocking 5ar2. Proscar cutters dont get these effectiveness issues since its a 5mg tablet and they still get a decent amount of finasteride per portion. I honestly think taking cut propecia is riskier than taking propecia at a stable level at the same time every day. Also, don't bother waiting for future treatments. Yeah it'll be great when its out, but don't get your hopes up for it being soon. Hell, there may even be some side effects that are worse than finasteride's that you don't know about yet. EDIT: Btw, when I said you underestimate minoxidil, I mean you will most likely grow a fair bit of hair back. A large percentage of people do, you'd be quite unlucky not to.
[QUOTE=Tasm;43409086]Pill cutting propecia is pretty silly tbh since the finasteride isn't evenly spread in the tablet, you'll end up getting fluctuating amounts of finasteride which could potentially be more risky than taking a stable 1mg per day. I've stopped finasteride once before for about 3 weeks, my hormones went a little bit crazy, and all of a sudden I was producing way too much testosterone (I got hot flushes, a bit of roid rage, and I felt angry/irritable for a while). My point is, if you take finasteride your body adapts to it and creates a new equilibrium in the endocrine system. Taking a stable amount lets your body keep that equilibrium, if you cut pills and since it is not evenly distributed you are getting fluctuating amounts, which in turn may fuck with your hormones, and not only that, you may be getting dosages of 0.1mg, 0.5, 0.05 or whatever and it won't be as effective as you think, and you may lose hair relatively quickly due to the reduced efficiency at blocking 5ar2. Proscar cutters dont get these effectiveness issues since its a 5mg tablet and they still get a decent amount of finasteride per portion. I honestly think taking cut propecia is riskier than taking propecia at a stable level at the same time every day. Also, don't bother waiting for future treatments. Yeah it'll be great when its out, but don't get your hopes up for it being soon. Hell, there may even be some side effects that are worse than finasteride's that you don't know about yet. EDIT: Btw, when I said you underestimate minoxidil, I mean you will most likely grow a fair bit of hair back. A large percentage of people do, you'd be quite unlucky not to.[/QUOTE] I still have a fair bit of hair, I'm receding at the temples towards a NW2-2.5 pattern. Minoxidil doesnt do much for the hairline, but I suppose it's worth a shot since some people are responders to it at the hairline I'll take your advice about cutting propecia that's the first I've read about that anywhere. And yea I know, it's just so tiring that minoxidil and finasteride have been the only two crude solutions to hair loss for about two decades now. CB looks promising though, the side effects seem minimal but we'll see by the end of the month whether or not that holds true. Not that it matters since it won't be coming anytime soon to treat MPB
My father went bald at sixteen, I gained stunted growth as a side effect of ritalin as a child. Not sure if I have MPB yet but I'm 23, but I think I was lucky and dodged the bullet.
[QUOTE=ViralHatred;43486650]My father went bald at sixteen, I gained stunted growth as a side effect of ritalin as a child. Not sure if I have MPB yet but I'm 23, but I think I was lucky and dodged the bullet.[/QUOTE] Haha no way! I'd trade all my hair to be tall. I was lucky and got 5'5 genes as well as balding at 16 genes, lmao.
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