• Black Power and the Rhetoric of Modern Racism
    337 replies, posted
[QUOTE=ThePutty;24452904]Personally I think the sooner people stop debating and carrying on about racism the sooner the problem will go away[/QUOTE] Yes, because ignoring problems has historically been the best solution to everything.
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;24453073]Did you just boil down all racism to the words "nigger" and "cracker"? Seriously? It goes a bit deeper than that, brochop.[/QUOTE] No I didn't those are just two examples I used because they are very common [editline]3:33[/editline] my point is though that it seems certain people are always incredibly ready to get defensive about racism, almost as though they are looking to start problems or give their opinion on how racism is bad. If someone was racist in any sort of way around me, or used any sort of words against me or gave their negative opinion of me directly to me, I would [I]not care at all.[/I] However, with certain people, it seems as though they are so ready to get all defensive about racism and racist opinions etc., where the problem would disappear if ignored. Please note that I am talking about single-person verbal racism etc. like you find on facepunch. I am also talking about the fact that only dumb, misinformed, and overall ignorant people are racist ones, and that ignoring them would likely put an end to their dumbassery. Now, if the majority of people were racist and unacceptable of other people's culture and race, etc., that might be a problem. However, that is not the case at all.
[QUOTE=Destitide;24453068]I've seen bans handed out because someone pointed out that black people have a genetically high chance to have large gums- how is that racist?[/QUOTE] Can I see that ban? Because I'd agree with you that it was a shitty ban as-is, but I'd need to see context.
[quote]They're especially angry about the tax being placed on those who use tanning salons. Because this is racist. Against white people. No, seriously.[/quote] Snooki was quite upset about that as well.
[QUOTE=Jawalt;24453081]What physical attributes? Facial structure? Skin tone? None of those matter in a real way. People are people.[/QUOTE] White people are more likely to have osteoporosis. Black people are more likely to have heart problems. Tailoring medical studies on osteoporosis to white people and cardiology-related studies toward black people wouldn't be racist, for example.
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;24453115]White people are more likely to have osteoporosis. Black people are more likely to have heart problems. Tailoring medical studies on osteoporosis to white people and cardiology-related studies toward black people wouldn't be racist, for example.[/QUOTE] Yes but in a social and economic setting that doesn't matter for the most part. I'm never going to be like "Bro you know you have a higher chance of heart disease than me?" those don't matter, as far as jobs and society goes you should ignore skin tone.
[QUOTE=Sir Tristan;24453043]In my opinion anyone who is offended by racism is a dumb baby, just as are people who take offense to swear words. Let me paint two scenarios. You are black, someone you don't know walks up to you and calls you a dumb n[sp]igger[/sp], then they walk away. You are white and someone you don't know walks up to you and calls you a dumb cracker[/QUOTE] Let's paint some more scenarios (from the OP, which you apparently haven't read). Blacks are far more likely than whites to have their cars and persons searched after a traffic stop, even though whites, when searched, are more than four times as likely to have drugs or other illegal contraband on them. White job applicants with criminal records have a better chance of being called back for an interview than black applicants without one, even when all the qualifications are the same. A massive nationwide study estimated at least 1 million cases of blatant job discrimination against blacks, Latinos and Asian Americans each year, affecting roughly one-in-three job seekers of color. Chinese-American professionals earn less than 60 percent as much as their white counterparts, even though the Chinese Americans, on average, have more education. The lightest-skinned immigrants to the United States make as much as 15 percent more than the darkest, even when the immigrants in question have the same level of education, experience and measured productivity. Evidence suggests millions of cases of race-based housing discrimination against people of color each year. Blatant racism was practiced by Wells Fargo, which was deliberately roping black borrowers (to whom they referred as "mud people") into high-cost loans, targeting them for these instruments, and even falsifying credit histories to make black applicants look like greater risks than they were, so as to justify the scam. I was really hoping you'd read that. It's not too late!
[QUOTE=ZekeTwo;24453096]Can I see that ban? Because I'd agree with you that it was a shitty ban as-is, but I'd need to see context.[/QUOTE] I think the thread has been archived, but there's a similar ban in the thread [url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=970035[/url] , albeit given by Greeman.
Let me give you a quote: "Mr. Cohen asked for admission, and he got his answer. He's white and the Caucus is black. It's time to move on. We have racial policies to pursue and we are pursuing them, as Mr. Cohen has learned. It's an unwritten rule. It's understood." This was said by William Lacy Clay Sr., a co founder of the Congressional Black Caucus. Let me ask you: How can we allow an openly racism group of people in the congress of the United States of America? My answer: because their a minority... and minorities are allowed to be racist because of some unfounded sense of "justice" and political correctness. Also, most (if not all) of those points you listed are very simplistic and leave out key factors. Simply put... your just as much of an ideologue as the people your attacking.
[QUOTE=TH89;24452823]No, I'll tell you you're a racist because you believe it's okay to discriminate people you've never met because they don't have European names. But that's not all white people, it's not even everyone in this thread. It's just you.[/QUOTE] Honestly TH89, the way you champion racism is starting to make me think you are a closet racist. I don't think of myself as a racist, but I'm not so thick as to think I don't have a slight cultural bias (As pretty much everyone does) either. I agree there is a vast amount of racism in the US, and those studies could very well be accurate in illustrating that. As well, I also agree that a lot of people are jumping on the RACISM train to get what they want, and it disgusts me that they can get away with it. In blatant cases of racism, such as the wells fargo thing, there should definitely be reprimands, and there probably were. Basically, stop complaining so much. There are few actual cases of racism on facepunch unless someone is trolling. In Blatant cases, I agree, there should be reprimands. But let's face it. Everyone is slightly biased towards or against anything, there's no getting around it, and it WILL manifest itself occasionally. And that sometimes includes what name you have, or your skin colour, or both.
[QUOTE=TH89;24453185]Let's paint some more scenarios (from the OP, which you apparently haven't read). Blacks are far more likely than whites to have their cars and persons searched after a traffic stop, even though whites, when searched, are more than four times as likely to have drugs or other illegal contraband on them. White job applicants with criminal records have a better chance of being called back for an interview than black applicants without one, even when all the qualifications are the same. A massive nationwide study estimated at least 1 million cases of blatant job discrimination against blacks, Latinos and Asian Americans each year, affecting roughly one-in-three job seekers of color. Chinese-American professionals earn less than 60 percent as much as their white counterparts, even though the Chinese Americans, on average, have more education. The lightest-skinned immigrants to the United States make as much as 15 percent more than the darkest, even when the immigrants in question have the same level of education, experience and measured productivity. Evidence suggests millions of cases of race-based housing discrimination against people of color each year. Blatant racism was practiced by Wells Fargo, which was deliberately roping black borrowers (to whom they referred as "mud people") into high-cost loans, targeting them for these instruments, and even falsifying credit histories to make black applicants look like greater risks than they were, so as to justify the scam. I was really hoping you'd read that. It's not too late![/QUOTE] Right-we get it. Black people are disadvantaged. This isn't new or groundbreaking, it's been obvious for quite some time. How does this matter at all with how you moderate? [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Derailing" - TH89))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=sgman91;24453196]Also, most (if not all) of those points you listed are very simplistic and leave out key factors. Simply put... your just as much of an ideologue as the people your attacking.[/QUOTE] If I'm leaving out key factors, why don't you tell me what they are?
[QUOTE=TH89;24453085]Yes, because ignoring problems has historically been the best solution to everything.[/QUOTE] I don't mean ignore the problem and become all ignorant, I'm saying that carrying on and debating about racism won't lead to any solutions. Minorities already have equal rights in first world countries anyway, so all you can do is wait until people stop caring about whether somebody is black or asian or whatever. You can't force views on somebody by saying racism is bad. Second world and third world countries though? Well, that'll take development.
Also the heart problems/osteoporosis thing reminds me of an episode of House where a black man comes in for having heart problems and dr. foreman prescribes the man medicine tailored for black people's specific heart problems. The man recoils harshly, telling foreman that he is racist for doing this, and that he wants the common medicine usually prescribed for this. This is what I am talking about, there are many situations just like this where people are so ready to defend themselves, calling others racist where that is just not the case, and it really irritates me how they cannot just accept that people are different and some people are ignorant and dumb, and that sparking debates and problems about it doesn't solve anything.
We definitely all have some undeniable cultural biases. It's been proven that the race we are around as babies is the one that we can tell from one another easiest, and that up until the age where you can reason you're a blatant racist. But this is uniform across ALL races.
Hey TH89, have sex with me or I'll call it discrimination. I didn't choose my gender, looks or the conditions that made me who I am. Similarly I would assume you'd prefer a girl that best fit your standards of beauty that include, ooh, the color of her skin. That's discrimination. No, I'm not trolling, I'm making the point that any person should have the right to discriminate (and does so all the time) based on race or any other trait, be it concrete or [i]imaginary[/i], so long as it does not escalate into actual crime (which is not inherent to the concept of discrimination itself), so stop being such a baffoon TH89. That's all.
Genetically speaking, race doesn't exist.
[QUOTE=TH89;24453219]If I'm leaving out key factors, why don't you tell me what they are?[/QUOTE] Why don't you pick out your 5 favorite points that you made and I'll attempt to clarify them. There are simply too many to refute at the same time and I have a feeling that if I pick them out you'll just list other ones.
[QUOTE=TH89;24453185]Let's paint some more scenarios (from the OP, which you apparently haven't read). Blacks are far more likely than whites to have their cars and persons searched after a traffic stop, even though whites, when searched, are more than four times as likely to have drugs or other illegal contraband on them. White job applicants with criminal records have a better chance of being called back for an interview than black applicants without one, even when all the qualifications are the same. A massive nationwide study estimated at least 1 million cases of blatant job discrimination against blacks, Latinos and Asian Americans each year, affecting roughly one-in-three job seekers of color. Chinese-American professionals earn less than 60 percent as much as their white counterparts, even though the Chinese Americans, on average, have more education. The lightest-skinned immigrants to the United States make as much as 15 percent more than the darkest, even when the immigrants in question have the same level of education, experience and measured productivity. Evidence suggests millions of cases of race-based housing discrimination against people of color each year. Blatant racism was practiced by Wells Fargo, which was deliberately roping black borrowers (to whom they referred as "mud people") into high-cost loans, targeting them for these instruments, and even falsifying credit histories to make black applicants look like greater risks than they were, so as to justify the scam. I was really hoping you'd read that. It's not too late![/QUOTE] And I agree that this is bad, but it is not widespread to my knowledge. Furthermore, if that cop searching your car is black, I'm sure that the situation would be reversed. My point is that this is not a gigantic horrible epidemic sweeping the nation- sure, things like this happen every now and then, but I truly believe that given time and a general increase in knowledge of these things among the general population, we will see a decline in these events sooner or later.
Brilliant read, thanks for posting it. I hate how racists go on about how Obama did this because he's black then go on later saying he's really black. Bandwagoning (in that I'm derailing the thread like the rest of you): TH89 is in my opinion, one of the cooler mods. His bans for racism were all very well justified. He was being strict, yes, but in order to keep you all out of the gutter. I prefer facepunch without stupid racist jokes, and I'm sure many of you agree.
[QUOTE=ThePutty;24453221]I don't mean ignore the problem and become all ignorant, I'm saying that carrying on and debating about racism won't lead to any solutions. Minorities already have equal rights in first world countries anyway, so all you can do is wait until people stop caring about whether somebody is black or asian or whatever. You can't force views on somebody by saying racism is bad.[/QUOTE] People aren't going to just "stop caring" for no reason. All positive social change through history has been a direct or indirect result of activism. Pretending the problem doesn't exist might allow you to feel less guilty, but it doesn't the person who is regularly harassed and searched by police, and had his job applications denied because he's black or arabic or whatever. Sad thing.
I don't have a problem with race, I have a problem with culture. If a black person acts as I do, what I mean to say is: Fairly intelligent, play video games, speak in the way that I speak rather than what is commonly known as "ghetto talk", then I can actually say I am colorblind.. When I say I have "plenty of black friends", it is a misleading statement, because the characteristics of my "black friends" doesn't fit into your conception of what "black people" should be. I also have "plenty of white friends", some of the ones I am not friends with would fit into your conception of what "black people should be."
[QUOTE=Sir Tristan;24453225]Also the heart problems/osteoporosis thing reminds me of an episode of House where a black man comes in for having heart problems and dr. foreman prescribes the man medicine tailored for black people's specific heart problems. The man recoils harshly, telling foreman that he is racist for doing this, and that he wants the common medicine usually prescribed for this.[/QUOTE] That's the kind of oversensitivity I was talking about earlier. I'm not going to say that it's as big of a problem as racism (because it isn't), but it definitely helps breed it.
[QUOTE=TH89;24452649] You don't know what racism is--the reason the phenomenon described in the article is so popular is that kids generally aren't taught what racism is. They're just taught that "racism is bad" and that calling people slurs is racist. Then they develop racist attitudes and don't understand why they're racist, and since they've been taught that racism is bad, they get angry and defensive when called out on them.[/QUOTE] You expect that these kids will just be 'fixed' by the text wall? The people you describe won't take the time to read the article.
[QUOTE=TH89;24453310]People aren't going to just "stop caring" for no reason. All positive social change through history has been a direct or indirect result of activism. Pretending the problem doesn't exist might allow you to feel less guilty, but it doesn't the person who is regularly harassed and searched by police, and had his job applications denied because he's black or arabic or whatever. Sad thing.[/QUOTE] It'd be nice if they did stop caring though. Racism is pretty ridiculous. Honestly, I don't even know if it ever will go away. Long as you have two cultural groups that have history with eachother, there's going to be hate between them
Just as an example. Many of your points are the same kind of argument that people make when they say that eating dinner with your children will make them do better in school. They see the stats that say kids who eat with their parents do better in school and automatically assume that correlation = causation when in fact the underlying cause of having good parents is the key in doing well in school and that eating dinner with your kids is simply another effect of being a good parent.
[QUOTE=Zeddy;24453297]Genetically speaking, race doesn't exist.[/QUOTE] That's a matter of opinion since categories are means to a subjective end. All animals are made up of cells, thus species don't exist (to take it to an extreme).
[QUOTE=sgman91;24453302]Why don't you pick out your 5 favorite points that you made and I'll attempt to clarify them. There are simply too many to refute at the same time and I have a feeling that if I pick them out you'll just list other ones.[/QUOTE] Princeton: White people with criminal records more likely to get jobs than black people without criminal records: [url]http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/race_at_work.pdf[/url] Justice Department: Black people more likely to have their cars searched than white people, white people more likely to be carrying contraband if searched (obviously the latter is at least partly because the officers are being more selective, but that doesn't undermine the idea). [url]http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp02.pdf[/url] [url]http://www.amazon.com/Segregation-America-James-H-Carr/dp/0415965330/ref=tmm_pap_title_0[/url] Millions of cases of housing discrimination against minorities every year. [url]http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2009/03/02/decades-disparity[/url] White people and black people use drugs at the same rate, black people are far more likely to be arrested for it. [url]http://www.springerlink.com/content/m1u4806148441l8x/[/url] Black students are punished vastly disproportionately to white students for roughly the same behavior. [QUOTE=Lenni;24453286]any person should have the right to discriminate so stop being such a baffoon TH89[/QUOTE] I'm discriminating against you for being dumb right now
[QUOTE=sgman91;24453412] They see the stats that say kids who eat with their parents do better in school and automatically assume that correlation = causation when in fact the underlying cause of having good parents is the key in doing well in school and that eating dinner with your kids is simply another effect of being a good parent.[/QUOTE] The "blacks being more likely to get searched in traffic stops" thing can easily have other factors at play, (in large urban centres blacks are more likely to live in and drive in high-crime areas where police will be more likely to search people, for example) but the thing about a white guy with a criminal record being more able to get a job than a black man without was pretty blatant.
[QUOTE=Lenni;24453446]That's a matter of opinion[/QUOTE] No it's not. It's a scientific fact.
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