• Black Power and the Rhetoric of Modern Racism
    337 replies, posted
[QUOTE=TH89;24454149]That "bunch of people" is the American Anthropological Association, a leading organization of scientists who make their living studying human beings. Their statement is based on [URL="http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aempirical"]empirical[/URL] data. The brand of new-age "everybody's right, there is no objective truth" hippie junk you're polluting this thread with has no place in a serious political discussion. You said they might "do less work." Sorry if I misunderstood.[/QUOTE] I like how you can literally shoot down other people's views and then act as if you're the enlightened person here.
[QUOTE=Lenni;24454064]Just for the record I'm not a racist myself despite what I think TH89 is about to claim. I support people's right to discriminate, and that includes non-violent racism.[/QUOTE] So you're not a racist, just a white person who has no problem with the systemic disenfranchisement of minorities on a massive scale? Well, that's totally fine then.
[QUOTE=TH89;24453449]Princeton: White people with criminal records more likely to get jobs than black people without criminal records: [url]http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/race_at_work.pdf[/url] Justice Department: Black people more likely to have their cars searched than white people, white people more likely to be carrying contraband if searched (obviously the latter is at least partly because the officers are being more selective, but that doesn't undermine the idea). [url]http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cpp02.pdf[/url] [url]http://www.amazon.com/Segregation-America-James-H-Carr/dp/0415965330/ref=tmm_pap_title_0[/url] Millions of cases of housing discrimination against minorities every year. [url]http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2009/03/02/decades-disparity[/url] White people and black people use drugs at the same rate, black people are far more likely to be arrested for it. [url]http://www.springerlink.com/content/m1u4806148441l8x/[/url] Black students are punished vastly disproportionately to white students for roughly the same behavior.[/QUOTE] 1) This is a TERRIBLE study (I read the whole thing). They have only 3 people applying for each position. There is no possible way what so ever to know how only 3 people act in an interview. For all I know this study could just as easily say that white people are more likely to be better at interview taking. They also never state how many actual "audit groups" they have. Again, for all I know, it could be only the 3 groups they mentioned. This would make the study even worse. 2) The very first page of this study ruins your argument. It states that the exact same percent of white, black, and hispanic people were stopped by the police. Now tell me this. Is a racist cop more likely to stop a person simply because their black or search their car simply because their black? I would say that black people's cars are searched more because of multiple reasons that have nothing to do with being black. Some of those include: black people are more likely to live in high crime areas, black people are more likely to have contraband, black people are more likely to dress in a manner consistent with someone who would have contraband. (don't even try and call me a racism because of that last point... its one of those things that people get mad about but know is true) 3) Can you please point to a specific section? I'm not going to read the entire book. 4) This one makes me laugh. They forget to point out that in almost all drug related stats done by the government Hispanic people are also classified as white. This would severely skew the data for a direct white/black comparison. Their claim is also incorrect. Black people and white people both hold about 40% of all drug usage, but black people are a much smaller portion of the population. That would mean that black people are much more likely to use drugs. 5) You have to be a member to read the study... So I can't comment on this one.
[QUOTE=TH89;24454217]So you're not a racist, just a white person who has no problem with the systemic disenfranchisement of minorities on a massive scale? Well, that's totally fine then.[/QUOTE] Give me a reason I should care? I'm out for me, not you, not unborn babies, me. And so is everyone else. It's not my problem.
[QUOTE=Jawalt;24454210]I like how you can literally shoot down other people's views and then act as if you're the enlightened person here.[/QUOTE] It's been 3 pages. I've posted research from Princeton, the Justice Department, and the American Anthropological Association, among several others. You've done nothing but take personal potshots at me and make vague claims about how I'm "not showing the whole story" without supplying anything to back that up.
I don't think I've said anything about you, actually.
[QUOTE=TH89;24454149]That "bunch of people" is the American Anthropological Association, a leading organization of scientists who make their living studying human beings. Their statement is based on [url=http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Aempirical]empirical[/url] data.[/QUOTE] If I bite an apple and proclaim "I like apples", is that not subjective although based on "empirical data"? [QUOTE=TH89;24454149]The brand of new-age "everybody's right, there is no objective truth" hippie junk you're polluting this thread with has no place in a serious political discussion.[/QUOTE] Good job grouping me with a buch of stereotypes that I have nothing whatsoever in common with (and even in a thread about racism) while at the same time mis characterizing my statement about categories to be about truth in general, and finally proceeding to ironically claiming that you're trying to have a [i]serious[/i] political discussion, despite having just been more unserious than i previously thought you could be.
[QUOTE=Lenni;24454064]Well cultural difference is an entirely legitimate reason to be racist, in fact I've experienced very few people that were racist for genetic reasons (although they have a right to be stupid). Just for the record I'm not a racist myself despite what I think TH89 is about to claim. I support people's right to discriminate, and that includes non-violent racism.[/QUOTE] So because we are different, it's okay to be racist and assume we are better? There is no better when it comes to things like culture, sure some cultures are certain pros, but all cultures have various cons to them aswell.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;24454397]So because we are different, it's okay to be racist and assume we are better?[/QUOTE] I guess, if that's your opinion. Let idiots be idiots. [QUOTE=sloppy_joes;24454397]There is no better when it comes to things like culture, sure some cultures are certain pros, but all cultures have various cons to them aswell.[/QUOTE] "Better" is subjective, people have all sorts of preferences, racism is nothing special. You may think that willingly fat people are stupid for ruining their bodies (I do), but would you go from disagreement to prosecution?
All that has happened, or will happen in this thread is: 1)- Someone says something. Half opinion, half factual information. 2)- You reply with "no you're wrong lol i'm a mod shutup". Were you just bored and wanted to argue with someone? Back to the subject: Racism will never really go away. There are two different types of racism. The "I hate n*g*e*s and they should all go die in a fire" type is what people think of when they hear racism. This is not racism. This is extreme racism. The other kind is "he is Asian so he must be smart" or "he is black so he must like rap". This is what almost all racism actually is. It's grouping. All people do it, and will continue to. There's no changing it. The extreme racism is bad and should be avoided. "Normal racism" is fine.
[QUOTE=TH89;24454149] You said they might "do less work." Sorry if I misunderstood.[/QUOTE] Bad wording.
[QUOTE=o0ICE0o;24454541]The other kind is "he is Asian so he must be smart" or "he is black so he must like rap".This is what almost all sterotyping actually is.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=sgman91;24454237]1) This is a TERRIBLE study (I read the whole thing). They have only 3 people applying for each position. There is no possible way what so ever to know how only 3 people act in an interview. For all I know this study could just as easily say that white people are more likely to be better at interview taking.[/QUOTE] They applied for 1470 jobs, which is more than enough to get a ballpark figure. What you're basically saying here is "well, the minorities were denied the jobs, but how do we know that's not because they were inferior?" That's neither likely (especially given that the Princeton researchers explicitly selected people for their well-spokenness and level of education) nor is it supported by evidence. It's wild speculation. [QUOTE=sgman91;24454237]2) The very first page of this study ruins your argument. It states that the exact same percent of white, black, and hispanic people were stopped by the police.[/QUOTE] The same percentage of people were stopped. It's often quite difficult to ascertain the race or even sex of a person driving a car. That doesn't "ruin" the argument at all. [QUOTE=sgman91;24454237]I would say that black people's cars are searched more because of multiple reasons that have nothing to do with being black. Some of those include: black people are more likely to live in high crime areas, black people are more likely to have contraband, black people are more likely to dress in a manner consistent with someone who would have contraband. (don't even try and call me a racism because of that last point... its one of those things that people get mad about but know is true)[/QUOTE] Go ahead and ignore that the white searchees are more likely to have contraband. Once again, your argument is purely speculative. And some of that sounds like you're saying that it's okay for the police to treat all black people like criminals because there's a lot of impoverished black people. I hope that's not what you're saying. [QUOTE=sgman91;24454237]3) Can you please point to a specific section? I'm not going to read the entire book.[/QUOTE] Skip it. [QUOTE=sgman91;24454237]4) This one makes me laugh. They forget to point out that in almost all drug related stats done by the government Hispanic people are also classified as white. This would severely skew the data for a direct white/black comparison.[/QUOTE] ...and any skewing in the "use" statistics is immediately offset by skewing in the opposite direction in the "arrests" statistics. Either way you want to look at it there's still a huge disparity in how people are treated based on race. [QUOTE=sgman91;24454237]Their claim is also incorrect. Black people and white people both hold about 40% of all drug usage, but black people are a much smaller portion of the population. That would mean that black people are much more likely to use drugs.[/QUOTE] If you're going to contradict an official Human Rights Watch report I'm gonna have to see some actual sources. [QUOTE=sgman91;24454237]5) You have to be a member to read the study... So I can't comment on this one.[/QUOTE] Here you go: [url]http://pastebin.com/8bY9QkzL[/url] [editline]05:23AM[/editline] [QUOTE=o0ICE0o;24454541]"Normal racism" is fine.[/QUOTE] No, it's not fine when it keeps people from getting jobs, causes them to be disproportionately punished at school, and mistreated by the police on a regular basis. I mean, I'm sure it's fine for you, because you get the good half of all those inequalities. But some people don't only care about themselves. [editline]05:24AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Lenni;24454376]If I bite an apple and proclaim "I like apples", is that not subjective although based on "empirical data"?[/QUOTE] No, because that's not empirical data. Are you retarded?
1)- Someone says something. Half opinion, half factual information. 2)- You reply with "no you're wrong lol i'm a mod shutup".
[QUOTE=Lenni;24454512]I guess, if that's your opinion. Let idiots be idiots. "Better" is subjective, people have all sorts of preferences, racism is nothing special. You may think that willingly fat people are stupid for ruining their bodies (I do), but would you go from disagreement to prosecution?[/QUOTE] However, if they are happy being stupid, let them be stupid. As long as they support themselves and no one is suffering, who is to say, for example, that Amish people are lesser people than someone that spends 24 hours a day on WoW? Besides, I have no problem with fat people, let people live their lives as they want to live them. People who assume they are the best are either arrogant, ignorant or both.
[QUOTE=o0ICE0o;24454719]1)- Someone says something. Half opinion, half factual information. 2)- You reply with "no you're wrong lol i'm a mod shutup".[/QUOTE] You posted that already.
I am quite aware.
If you don't have anything substantive to contribute, please leave.
[QUOTE=o0ICE0o;24454719]1)- Someone says something. Half opinion, half factual information. 2)- You reply with "no you're wrong lol i'm a mod shutup".[/QUOTE] "I reject your facts and substitute my own"
I still think the n word should be a term that can be used as someone who is unintelligent, ignorant, aggressive, intolerable, and unwise. REGARDLESS of ethnicity mainly because were ever you go on the internet, someone will say it.
[QUOTE=Left4Meds2;24454840]I still think the n word should be a term that can be used as someone who is unintelligent, ignorant, aggressive, intolerable, and unwise. REGARDLESS of ethnicity mainly because were ever you go on the internet, someone will say it.[/QUOTE] Why? Why do you want to repurpose a racial slur so that you can use it? There's plenty of words that fit that description, like jackass, bastard, asshole. Why do you want to say nigger so badly?
[QUOTE=Left4Meds2;24454840]I still think the n word should be a term that can be used as someone who is unintelligent, ignorant, aggressive, intolerable, and unwise. REGARDLESS of ethnicity mainly because were ever you go on the internet, someone will say it.[/QUOTE] Except historically that word has been synonymous with a suppressed race and society, so even saying it brings up that past. Just don't say it, it doesn't matter what you think the word should mean, people will always find it offensive.
Seriously, I hate TH89, we know you're not black, you're just a shitty troll who should have just stayed banned. Facepunch isn't anti-black in any way, it's just it is a fucking [i]fact[/i] that minorities like Hispanics and Blacks are more likely to commit crimes, that doesn't mean Whites don't commit a metric-fuckton of crime too.
[QUOTE=TH89;24454871]Why? Why do you want to repurpose a racial slur so that you can use it? There's plenty of words that fit that description, like jackass, bastard, asshole. Why do you want to say nigger so badly?[/QUOTE] Words have different situations in which they can be used in and you want people to recognize how they feel when you say it. Calling someone a meanie head isn't going to have the same effect as calling them a jackass. Personally I'd hardly use the word but there are a few dumbshits that manage to get themselves in here and you want to tell him off really badly.
[QUOTE=ze spy;24454907]Seriously, I hate TH89, we know you're not black, you're just a shitty troll who should have just stayed banned. Facepunch isn't anti-black in any way, it's just it is a fucking [I]fact[/I] that minorities like Hispanics and Blacks are more likely to commit crimes, that doesn't mean Whites don't commit a metric-fuckton of crime too.[/QUOTE] The problem is, you think it's because hispanics and blacks are an inferior race and culture, not because white people have suppressed them for so long and kept them down, that they don't really have any decent opportunities in life.
[QUOTE=TH89;24454653]No, because that's not empirical data. Are you retarded?[/QUOTE] Despite you being wrong, I must admit that my example was pretty vague... Imagine 2 persons. One is an architect who wants to build a house of bricks, and he categorizes the sizes of his bricks. The other is also an architect, but he's in ancient Egypt building the pyramids, and he also categorizes the sizes of his stones. Both use the categories big, medium and small. Would you expect them to be the same, and should they be?
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;24454923]The problem is, you think it's because hispanics and blacks are an inferior race and culture, not because white people have suppressed them for so long and kept them down, that they don't really have any decent opportunities in life.[/QUOTE] No, I don't, I've lived around both my entire life, they're nice people, but you just can't deny that they commit more crimes, maybe it is the white man's fault I just don't know.
[QUOTE=Lenni;24454924]Despite you being wrong, I must admit that my example was pretty vague... Imagine 2 persons. One is an architect who wants to build a house of bricks, and he categorizes the sizes of his bricks. The other is also an architect, but he's in ancient Egypt building the pyramids, and he also categorizes the sizes of his stones. Both use the categories big, medium and small. Would you expect them to be the same, and should they be?[/QUOTE] That's not empirical either.
I was looking for a somewhat intelligble debate. What I found is a bunch of babies complaining about a mod's past actions that basically have no relation to the topic at hand.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;24454923]The problem is, you think it's because hispanics and blacks are an inferior race and culture, not because white people have suppressed them for so long and kept them down, that they don't really have any decent opportunities in life.[/QUOTE] What our ancestors did has absolutely nothing to do with us. Don't try to use that as a point.
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