• Religious High School Students
    323 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21070372]You seem to not understand that once people start believing like that, that there is no clear line between what is and isn't infringing on others beliefs.[/QUOTE] I honestly don't see how believing in your own beliefs and abstaining from forcing on others would blur that line. I think I might have forgotten to add that last part. Shiiiiiiit.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;21070403]I haven't seen Christians do it in a while, looks like they are on the right track.[/QUOTE] Well, except when they kill abortion doctors or rape children, but hey, live and learn.
[QUOTE=Siminov;21070405]There is a complete difference between them, [B]one is widely believed and the other is not.[/B][/QUOTE] Do you have any clue how much of a logical fallacy this is?
[QUOTE=jesseluver93;21070391]Well I'm sure Einstein would call you an idiot for not having thought of the theory of relativity.[/QUOTE] Uh, no, he wouldn't. Because I'm not a fucking theoretical physicist. That's like saying Raphael would call Einstein an incompetent because he sucked at art.
[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;21070418]Well, except when they kill abortion doctors or rape children, but hey, live and learn.[/QUOTE] Letting fuck ups like that represent Christianity as a whole is pretty stupid, I could say the same about Atheists, since I just saw a story where a bunch of them broke into a church, looted it, and burned it down, but I know as a whole most of them aren't like that.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21070299]The rules of logic aren't subject to opinion.[/QUOTE] Logic and reason are subject to the understanding of the human mind and nothing about the human mind is infallible therefore logic and reason can in no wise be used as an infallible criterion of truth. Ironic it is that I just used logic in my reasoning against logic and reason.
[QUOTE=Siminov;21070405]There is a complete difference between them, one is widely believed and the other is not. And people usually have sex in public.[/QUOTE] Haha, that logic makes no sense and you should probably never argue with anyone ever again if you can't see that.
[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;21070407]I think we've put it forward very simply as is. [B]As long as it doesn't infringe on other people's rights[/B], it's cool.[/QUOTE] If a person believes that they will have eternal bliss for doing X and stopping other from doing Y, all promised by god, what are you supposed to do? Kill them? Temporary solution, others are bound to think the same way eventually. Disprove them? How? With logic? But that will infringe on the many beliefs of the others who aren't harming anyone. What a dilemma.
[QUOTE=jesseluver93;21070446]Logic and reason are subject to the understanding of the human mind and nothing about the human mind is infallible therefore logic and reason can in no wise be used as an infallible criterion of truth. Ironic it is that I just used logic in my reasoning against logic and reason.[/QUOTE] Uh, no you didn't. Logic is unshakable. The idea that something is true if it can be shown to be true isn't something you can argue on. Science is simply a method of logic, whereby a few simple assertions you can create the most accurate view of the world possible. All science does in it's most basic form is take our most critical stand on issues and apply that to every issue, resulting in a organization devoted to weeding out inaccuracies and encouraging discovery. Trying to say that science is somehow wrong would require you to assume that out senses can intelligently fool us, or that we're in the Matrix. At which point you would be a fucking dolt and no one would have to talk to you any more.
[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;21070448]Haha, that logic makes no sense and you should probably never argue with anyone ever again if you can't see that.[/QUOTE] That logic makes complete sense, how many people believe in a religion vs how many believe in elves. If you don't want to handle it, then pass over it and stop caring.
[QUOTE=jesseluver93;21070446][B]1. [/B]Logic and reason are subject to the understanding of the human mind and [B]2. [/B]nothing about the human mind is infallible [B]3. [/B] therefore logic and reason can in no wise be used as an infallible criterion of truth. Ironic it is that I just used logic in my reasoning against logic and reason.[/QUOTE] 1. Here begins the strawman argument, you have no proof backing up this claim. 2. This point is very reliant on point 1, and makes a valid claim in the sense that the human mind can be damaged. 3. This point makes the incorrect judgment that because the perception of the universe changes, that what is and isn't true changes.
[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;21070431]Uh, no, he wouldn't. Because I'm not a fucking theoretical physicist. That's like saying Raphael would call Einstein an incompetent because he sucked at art.[/QUOTE] He could have done that because intelligence is completely relative. Imagine you are the most intelligent person in America. Then you take a trip to a place like tribal New Guinea where all your knowledge means nothing. If you do not know how to make a boat out of a tree or identify the names of local plants and animals, or build a shelter, they would call you an idiot. And in their eyes they would be right.
[QUOTE=Siminov;21070492]That logic makes complete sense, how many people believe in a religion vs how many believe in elves.[/QUOTE] 2000 years ago people all believed the earth was flat, it wasn't then, and it isn't now. How many people believe something has no bearing on whether or not it's true.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21070453]If a person believes that they will have eternal bliss for doing X and stopping other from doing Y, all promised by god, what are you supposed to do? Kill them? Temporary solution, others are bound to think the same way eventually. Disprove them? How? With logic? But that will infringe on the many beliefs of the others who aren't harming anyone. What a dilemma.[/QUOTE] Lock the motherfuckers up and watch them rot, I have no problem with that. Those people are scarred, either by some event in their life or a mental condition. Not everyone is ever going to think like that short of some wild revolution, in which case it really doesn't matter what we do or don't allow. [editline]03:42AM[/editline] [QUOTE=jesseluver93;21070498]He could have done that because intelligence is completely relative. Imagine you are the most intelligent person in America. Then you take a trip to a place like tribal New Guinea where all your knowledge means nothing. If you do not know how to make a boat out of a tree or identify the names of local plants and animals, or build a shelter, they would call you an idiot. And in their eyes they would be right.[/QUOTE] And how does that fucking matter. What the fuck does this have to do with anything? Yes, knowledge of advanced particle physics is useless when you're starving in a ditch, what is your fucking point?
[QUOTE=jesseluver93;21070446]Logic and reason are subject to the understanding of the human mind and nothing about the human mind is infallible therefore logic and reason can in no wise be used as an infallible criterion of truth. Ironic it is that I just used logic in my reasoning against logic and reason.[/QUOTE] ______________/ [img]http://www.bu.edu/mih/images/Freud.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21070493]1. Here begins the strawman argument, you have no proof backing up this claim. 2. This point is very reliant on point 1, and makes a valid claim in the sense that the human mind can be damaged. 3. This point makes the incorrect judgment that because the perception of the universe changes, that what is and isn't true changes.[/QUOTE] I don't mean to say that what is or isn't true can change. Just that the human mind is not perfect, and that I don't think that we can ever find the "perfect" truth that some people seek. That doesn't mean we can't try though!
[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;21070521]Lock the motherfuckers up and watch them rot, I have no problem with that. [B]Those people are scarred,[/B] either by some event in their life or a mental condition. Not everyone is ever going to think like that short of some wild revolution, in which case it really doesn't matter what we do or don't allow.[/QUOTE] You realize that this describes terrorists? Are they scarred or simply indoctrinated into a belief? Is there a difference? Obviously no one will think like that, but the fact is that they still believe something that doesn't stand up to logical scrutiny, and because of this have the potential to believe something like that.
[QUOTE=Siminov;21070492]That logic makes complete sense, how many people believe in a religion vs how many believe in elves. If you don't want to handle it, then pass over it and stop caring.[/QUOTE] Take a trip a thousand years in the past and tell that to all the people who believed in elves, hm? Your argument lacks objectivity, it's completely relative to the time being discussed.
I'm not suggesting we do, or don't allow believing in something, that wouldn't work. People should be educated in critical thinking. [editline]11:44PM[/editline] [QUOTE=jesseluver93;21070546]I don't mean to say that what is or isn't true can change. Just that the human mind is not perfect, and that[B] I don't think that we can ever find the "perfect" truth that some people seek[/B]. That doesn't mean we can't try though![/QUOTE] Do you do anything besides make unsubstantiated claims?
[QUOTE=jesseluver93;21070546]I don't mean to say that what is or isn't true can change. Just that the human mind is not perfect, and that I don't think that we can ever find the "perfect" truth that some people seek. That doesn't mean we can't try though![/QUOTE] What, are you trying to say that if we ever did approach the truth our minds would blot the information out of our sight? Out of the sight of every scientist in the universe, forever? [editline]03:45AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Kybalt;21070560]I'm not suggesting we do, or don't allow believing in something, that wouldn't work. People should be educated in critical thinking. [editline]11:44PM[/editline] Do you do anything besides make unsubstantiated claims?[/QUOTE] Yeah, but in the end crazy fucks will be crazy fucks. That's all I'm saying.
I think you guys are getting too deep into this and care too much about people's personal beliefs and opinions more than you should and ironically are like the crazy Christians that many of you preach against. :colbert:
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21070560] Do you do anything besides make unsubstantiated claims?[/QUOTE] I guess not :v:
[QUOTE=doommarine23;21070580]I think you guys are getting too deep into this and care too much about people's personal beliefs and opinions more than you should and ironically are like the crazy Christians that many of you preach against. :colbert:[/QUOTE] This.
[QUOTE=Mr. Mcguffin;21070566]What, are you trying to say that if we ever did approach the truth our minds would blot the information out of our sight? Out of the sight of every scientist in the universe, forever? [editline]03:45AM[/editline] [B]Yeah, but in the end crazy fucks will be crazy fucks. That's all I'm saying.[/B][/QUOTE] These are people who aren't crazy blowing themselves up. They have been taught a truth that isn't true, and they believe it to be the truth, since no one is around to say what does and doesn't make sense based on an actual examination of the natural world. Obviously people with actual mental conditions will be exist. [editline]11:49PM[/editline] [QUOTE=doommarine23;21070580]I think you guys are getting too deep into this and care too much about people's personal beliefs and opinions more than you should and ironically are like the crazy Christians that many of you preach against. :colbert:[/QUOTE] Yeah because it totally isn't my problem when people are taught something that isn't a logical truth for the world we live in, and then they go and cause world wide issues.
Fuck me, not this again.
Those kids are so sensitive. Sad.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21070605]These are people who aren't crazy blowing themselves up. They have been taught a truth that isn't true, and they believe it to be the truth, since no one is around to say what does and doesn't make sense based on an actual examination of the natural world. Obviously people with actual mental conditions will be exist. [editline]11:49PM[/editline] Yeah because it totally isn't my problem when people are taught something that isn't a logical truth for the world we live in, and then they go and cause world wide issues.[/QUOTE] So you rather people live in a correct world where we have correct beliefs and can not think for our selves; not matter how illogical it may be. Kind of ironic considering you told me to think for my self awhile back. The only way to have people think 100% truth and only truth is to control them and their minds.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;21070605] Yeah because it totally isn't my problem when people are taught something that isn't a logical truth for the world we live in, and then they go and cause world wide issues.[/QUOTE] 10,000 years ago, people thought it wasn't logical for the world to be round. Columbus sailed around the world, proving it was round. Just because something isn't proved to be true at one time doesn't mean it can't be true.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;21070580]I think you guys are getting too deep into this and care too much about people's personal beliefs and opinions more than you should [b][highlight]and ironically are like the crazy Christians that many of you preach against.[/b][/highlight] :colbert:[/QUOTE] Let me know when we atheists start killing priests in the volume that abortion doctors are being killed. Let me know when we start denying marriage rights to the religious in the same volume that gays are being denied rights. Child molestations. Terrorism. Mass suicide. Brainwashing. [i]Magic underwear[/i] And let me know when we start storming through Europe to convert everyone by force, because I want to help out with that.
[QUOTE=evilweazel;21070686]10,000 years ago, people thought it wasn't logical for the world to be round. Columbus sailed around the world, proving it was round. Just because something isn't proved to be true at one time doesn't mean it can't be true.[/QUOTE] Which is why people should be taught to think logically instead of illogically, so that they can adapt to a change. Based on current evidence, god doesn't exist. What more do you want? [editline]11:57PM[/editline] [QUOTE=doommarine23;21070681]So you rather people live in a correct world where we have correct beliefs and can not think for our selves; not matter how illogical it may be. Kind of ironic considering you told me to think for my self awhile back. The only way to have people think 100% truth and only truth is to control them and their minds.[/QUOTE] I'd rather live in a world where people made decisions based on facts, evidence and logic instead of fallacies. Yes. How is that controlling peoples minds?
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