[QUOTE=J. Jett;32976179]
Generalizing much?
I'm not out to trick someone into seeing a dick.[/QUOTE]
No not really. I have faith that they will tell me before I have to find out myself.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32975409]I dislike transgenders purely from a man's perspective. You're dating this chick and all, but then she has a dick. Some will enjoy that, but not me.[/QUOTE] I know a couple and I can say for sure that this concept is as ridiculous as the "gay men will rape you" concept.
Noone should be unequal because of gender, because you are forced as either female/male. Like back in the 1700s where Women had no rights entirely. It would be horrible knowing you are suddenly a girl and are forced to be oppressed just because of you are born as a girl.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;32977854]You're externally still a man. In most cases you cannot expect other woman to be fine with this. In a sense, wearing female clothes while externally still male in public is your own decision, one that should not have much effect on other people.
In a sense it comes to a conflict of your right against the rights of others. Imagine if you were working at a company and did this and other female employees complained. The employer would most likely be forced to warn you about this behavior and if you continued to do it, fire you.
To be honest in some cases and some countries an employer could most likely fire you for not adhering to dresscode, most of all if you were to be dealing with other people.
After you get the surgery it's a completely different ballgame of course.
Don't take me wrong - I'm not going against your personal inner beliefs. This is more or less a conflict of interests, rights and expectations dealing with the external side of things.[/QUOTE]
I really respect that you're not trying to stamp on anyone's rights, that makes you better than most on FP that I've seen deal with transgender issues.
But what about people who are born Intersex? do they not deserve to use either bathroom because they have the genitalia of both? or should they be able to freely use both bathrooms?
Also Metanar, when did you get all super-educated about it? I remember you being so quiet. Nice to see that you are educated about it now :D
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;32967321]However one such wish that cannot be implemented is one that is essentially decoration of the outside body that serves no tangible purpose, much like makeup, jewellery, piercings, rich clothes, etc that are wasteful.[/QUOTE]
yes sobotnik we should all dress in brown shirts and offer up the human race to be consumed by the industrial complex in the name of improving the human race.
Eh, I know a lot I just don't say anything until I see other people spreading misconceptions, have a tendency to get dug into debates.
[QUOTE=Contag;32980022]I feel this distinction is entirely constructed (I mean, what isn't, but this in particular is very apparent), because there are plenty of unisex toilets around the world.
I find the whole "well rapes will increase" argument is fucking bullshit, because it paints trans* people as these kind of ill psychotic creatures, not to mention there is virtually no protection to stop a man actually going into a female bathroom anyhow.
[editline]27th October 2011[/editline]
An open question to the trans* people writing here, how do you identify with the gender that is disparate to your external sex?
Is it a matter of feeling more feminine than masculine, or sexual attraction, or?[/QUOTE]
I just don't feel comfortable going into a guys toilet dressed like a girl, and I don't think its fair that I should be forced to go into it when I don't identify as a guy and I'm not causing any trouble in the girls toilets. I've been into girls toilets before and there's been absolutely no problem, whereas I can imagine going into a guys bathroom with a dress on being a rather stupid thing to do. It's just a scary thing to be forced to do, not to mention that it's slightly upsetting as it distinguishes a transgirl from a 'normal' girl.
For me, a number of things led up to my realisation that I am gender dysphoric (hate my gender, I feel gender dysphoria describes the condition a bit better than gender identity disorder, at least for me anyway).
It was pretty simple at first, I just enjoyed playing with girls more than boys at a very young age (maybe 5 or 6, I never told anyone so there's no way for me to tell exactly), I would have much rather stayed indoors and dressed up with girls instead of being forced out to play football or whatever.
I remember that at some point I started to become really concious of the differences between girls and boys, more importantly dress, usual routine etc., and it was around this stage that I started to hate feeling masculine, but felt like it was just some weird thing that I could blot out and ignore that would eventually go away. It created a constant feeling of self-loathing (that I feel to this day), I never felt 'right' looking like a guy so I didn't bother with my appearance, of course that's changed a bit now that I'm open about things both online and in real life but it hasn't changed how I feel about myself particularly. I do feel a bit better when I'm dressed up although I can't do that most of the time because I go to an all-boys school and I'd never get away with turning up as a girl.
Got carried away a bit there, but just to answer the question the main feeling is hating being masculine, although I definitely like feeling feminine as well, so it's really a mixture of both. Overall I'd say it's just a really, really confusing thing to feel, and is really quite a difficult thing to describe.
[QUOTE=Metanar;32986860]
It was pretty simple at first, I just enjoyed playing with girls more than boys at a very young age (maybe 5 or 6, I never told anyone so there's no way for me to tell exactly), I would have much rather stayed indoors and dressed up with girls instead of being forced out to play football or whatever. [/QUOTE]
that just means you are a player like me
[QUOTE=Metanar;32986860]It was pretty simple at first, I just enjoyed playing with girls more than boys at a very young age (maybe 5 or 6, I never told anyone so there's no way for me to tell exactly), I would have much rather stayed indoors and dressed up with girls instead of being forced out to play football or whatever.[/QUOTE]
That actually seems kinda common for people who feel uncomfortable as their given gender. For example, I was always more interested in playing with my sister's dolls with her at that age but I'd always get in trouble by my dad when I tried to. It's only been about two months since I've even told my family anything about it at all.
[QUOTE=Metanar;32986860]Eh, I know a lot I just don't say anything until I see other people spreading misconceptions, have a tendency to get dug into debates.
I just don't feel comfortable going into a guys toilet dressed like a girl, and I don't think its fair that I should be forced to go into it when I don't identify as a guy and I'm not causing any trouble in the girls toilets. I've been into girls toilets before and there's been absolutely no problem, whereas I can imagine going into a guys bathroom with a dress on being a rather stupid thing to do. It's just a scary thing to be forced to do, not to mention that it's slightly upsetting as it distinguishes a transgirl from a 'normal' girl.
For me, a number of things led up to my realisation that I am gender dysphoric (hate my gender, I feel gender dysphoria describes the condition a bit better than gender identity disorder, at least for me anyway).
It was pretty simple at first, I just enjoyed playing with girls more than boys at a very young age (maybe 5 or 6, I never told anyone so there's no way for me to tell exactly), I would have much rather stayed indoors and dressed up with girls instead of being forced out to play football or whatever.
I remember that at some point I started to become really concious of the differences between girls and boys, more importantly dress, usual routine etc., and it was around this stage that I started to hate feeling masculine, but felt like it was just some weird thing that I could blot out and ignore that would eventually go away. It created a constant feeling of self-loathing (that I feel to this day), I never felt 'right' looking like a guy so I didn't bother with my appearance, of course that's changed a bit now that I'm open about things both online and in real life but it hasn't changed how I feel about myself particularly. I do feel a bit better when I'm dressed up although I can't do that most of the time because I go to an all-boys school and I'd never get away with turning up as a girl.
Got carried away a bit there, but just to answer the question the main feeling is hating being masculine, although I definitely like feeling feminine as well, so it's really a mixture of both. Overall I'd say it's just a really, really confusing thing to feel, and is really quite a difficult thing to describe.[/QUOTE]
Not being masculine in an all boys school is horrible, I understand to a degree how you feel.
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;32985628]I know a couple and I can say for sure that this concept is as ridiculous as the "gay men will rape you" concept.[/QUOTE]I've had the exact opposite experience. My friend was dating a "chick" but she really wasn't and he only discovered when they were about to have sex. I was dating one girl too, thankfully a friend told me the secret beforehand. I am actually surprised there's so many of them.
Note, I do NOT hate them or are against them, I just want them to be open.
I am all for freedom of choice and free speech and rights for everyone, but both sides have to be open, not just one.
[QUOTE=Metanar;32986860]Eh, I know a lot I just don't say anything until I see other people spreading misconceptions, have a tendency to get dug into debates.
I just don't feel comfortable going into a guys toilet dressed like a girl, and I don't think its fair that I should be forced to go into it when I don't identify as a guy and I'm not causing any trouble in the girls toilets. I've been into girls toilets before and there's been absolutely no problem, whereas I can imagine going into a guys bathroom with a dress on being a rather stupid thing to do. It's just a scary thing to be forced to do, not to mention that it's slightly upsetting as it distinguishes a transgirl from a 'normal' girl.
For me, a number of things led up to my realisation that I am gender dysphoric (hate my gender, I feel gender dysphoria describes the condition a bit better than gender identity disorder, at least for me anyway).
It was pretty simple at first, I just enjoyed playing with girls more than boys at a very young age (maybe 5 or 6, I never told anyone so there's no way for me to tell exactly), I would have much rather stayed indoors and dressed up with girls instead of being forced out to play football or whatever.
I remember that at some point I started to become really concious of the differences between girls and boys, more importantly dress, usual routine etc., and it was around this stage that I started to hate feeling masculine, but felt like it was just some weird thing that I could blot out and ignore that would eventually go away. It created a constant feeling of self-loathing (that I feel to this day), I never felt 'right' looking like a guy so I didn't bother with my appearance, of course that's changed a bit now that I'm open about things both online and in real life but it hasn't changed how I feel about myself particularly. I do feel a bit better when I'm dressed up although I can't do that most of the time because I go to an all-boys school and I'd never get away with turning up as a girl.
Got carried away a bit there, but just to answer the question the main feeling is hating being masculine, although I definitely like feeling feminine as well, so it's really a mixture of both. Overall I'd say it's just a really, really confusing thing to feel, and is really quite a difficult thing to describe.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for sharing, I appreciate that.
I can't imagine being gender dysphoric and going to an all-male school, wow.
All male schools can be different too. Some do not tolerate feminine guys or gays or stuff like that, while some don't mind and welcome them. Really depends on the community.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32989489]All male schools can be different too. Some do not tolerate feminine guys or gays or stuff like that, while some don't mind and welcome them. Really depends on the community.[/QUOTE]
If you go to a more middle class area yeah. Where I go you're pretty much expected to be a big tough sporty guy otherwise you're treated like crap.
[editline]27th October 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;32977309]Transgender people have the right to live a happy life free of discrimination because they're humans and all humans deserve the right to live a happy life free of discrimination.[/QUOTE]
What about the people who discriminate?
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32989312]I've had the exact opposite experience. My friend was dating a "chick" but she really wasn't and he only discovered when they were about to have sex. I was dating one girl too, thankfully a friend told me the secret beforehand. I am actually surprised there's so many of them.
Note, I do NOT hate them or are against them, I just want them to be open.
I am all for freedom of choice and free speech and rights for everyone, but both sides have to be open, not just one.[/QUOTE]
Be open about all your deepest and most personal secret after fighting so hard to make it so people can't notice it, so you don't get beat up coming home from work, and then we'll go ahead and be open.
Transpeople are "Stealth" for a reason.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32989950]
What about the people who discriminate?[/QUOTE]
uhh fuck those guys? i can't think of anything else to respond to that with
[editline]27th October 2011[/editline]
don't say "people are always going to discriminate" because that's a dumb thing to say
[QUOTE=Skelmech;32993707]
Transpeople are "Stealth" for a reason.[/QUOTE]
Then they shouldn't be dating. And it should never get to the part where your partner only discovers when you're about to have sex.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32989312]I am all for freedom of choice and free speech and rights for everyone, but both sides have to be open, not just one.[/QUOTE]
Sure, both sides should. But one side needs to be more tolerant first. When you actually have to fear being beaten foe being open about things then most people will start to have trouble being open with other people. Especially ones they don't know well. And in a case like your example I think it's more a matter of at the beginning they're afraid to be open about it because they don't know how the other person will handle it then when they'd be comfortable with being completely open about it they're too afraid that by waiting so long to be open about it, that it will completely ruin the relationship.
[QUOTE=Onyx3173;32994738]Sure, both sides should. But one side needs to be more tolerant first. When you actually have to fear being beaten foe being open about things then most people will start to have trouble being open with other people. Especially ones they don't know well. And in a case like your example I think it's more a matter of at the beginning they're afraid to be open about it because they don't know how the other person will handle it then when they'd be comfortable with being completely open about it they're too afraid that by waiting so long to be open about it, that it will completely ruin the relationship.[/QUOTE]True, so what can be done then?
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32994644]Then they shouldn't be dating. And it should never get to the part where your partner only discovers when you're about to have sex.[/QUOTE]
I by no means am saying they shouldn't tell their partner, i'm saying they shouldn't have to have it be open for the world to know. Its a private thing
ALL THE TRAPS AND RETARDS IN THIS THREAD
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("This is NOT debating" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Binladen34;32995069]ALL THE TRAPS AND RETARDS IN THIS THREAD[/QUOTE]
lmao
funny you're the one saying that
[QUOTE=Skelmech;32995081]lmao
funny you're the one saying that[/QUOTE]
Funny because binladen34 is both.
"WAHHH YOU CALLED ME SOMETHING YOU NEVER SAID, BUT I BELIEVE IT BECAUSE I HAVE PSEUDOLOGIA FANTASTICA WHICH I DENY HAVING!!!!"
[QUOTE=killz2much;32995145]Funny because binladen34 is both.
"WAHHH YOU CALLED ME SOMETHING YOU NEVER SAID, BUT I BELIEVE IT BECAUSE I HAVE PSEUDOLOGIA FANTASTICA WHICH I DENY HAVING!!!!"[/QUOTE]
How does that even work? lol
[editline]27th October 2011[/editline]
Oh wait you're still pissy for me calling you a fag like a year ago. lol
[QUOTE=Binladen34;32995351]How does that even work? lol
[editline]27th October 2011[/editline]
Oh wait you're still pissy for me calling you a fag like a year ago. lol[/QUOTE]
A fag? Year ago? You added me out of the blue and threatened to find me and kill me only a few months ago. 6 months to be exact.
And it works like this: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudologia_fantastica[/url]
You are a compulsive liar, you make mountains out of mole hills and you also have false memory syndrome.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;32995028]I by no means am saying they shouldn't tell their partner, i'm saying they shouldn't have to have it be open for the world to know. Its a private thing[/QUOTE]
If it's private, what kind of rights are they even seeking? Demanding respect and acceptance kinda implies it's open.
[QUOTE=killz2much;32995418]A fag? Year ago? You added me out of the blue and threatened to find me and kill me only a few months ago. 6 months to be exact.
And it works like this: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudologia_fantastica[/url]
You are a compulsive liar, you make mountains out of mole hills and you also have false memory syndrome.[/QUOTE]
ok
[editline]27th October 2011[/editline]
GUYS THE INTERNET IS SRS EVERYONE ABANDON SHIP
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Scratch that - Extended" - Craptasket))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Binladen34;32995464]ok
[editline]27th October 2011[/editline]
GUYS THE INTERNET IS SRS EVERYONE ABANDON SHIP[/QUOTE]
I think it's time for you to take your leave.
On topic: I believe that everyone, regardless of belief, preference, or race should be equally treated, obviously this covers transgenders.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32994852]True, so what can be done then?[/QUOTE]
If they didn't have to fear those things then nothing would really need to be done.
[QUOTE=Onyx3173;32995583]If they didn't have to fear those things then nothing would really need to be done.[/QUOTE]But they have to and without a solution nothing will change.
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