The solution would be for people to stop discriminating against them and making them fear for their own well being.
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;32993866]uhh fuck those guys? i can't think of anything else to respond to that with
[editline]27th October 2011[/editline]
don't say "people are always going to discriminate" because that's a dumb thing to say[/QUOTE]
Got a bit defensive about something I was never going to say eh? It was more just an attack on the whole "everyone deserves a happy life" part.
[QUOTE=Onyx3173;32996054]The solution would be for people to stop discriminating against them and making them fear for their own well being.[/QUOTE]
That's the solution, but how will you achieve that?
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32996139]That's the solution, but how will you achieve that?[/QUOTE]
The only way to really achieve that is through people not giving up and that will take awhile because people so stubbornly resist any change.
It's another one of those things that will come around with time, societal change doesn't just happen over night.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;32977854]You're externally still a man. In most cases you cannot expect other woman to be fine with this.[B] In a sense, wearing female clothes while externally still male in public is your own decision[/B], one that should not have much effect on other people.
In a sense it comes to a conflict of your right against the rights of others. Imagine if you were working at a company and did this and other female employees complained. The employer would most likely be forced to warn you about this behavior and if you continued to do it, fire you.
To be honest in some cases and some countries an employer could most likely fire you for not adhering to dresscode, most of all if you were to be dealing with other people.
After you get the surgery it's a completely different ballgame of course.
Don't take me wrong - I'm not going against your personal inner beliefs. This is more or less a conflict of interests, rights and expectations dealing with the external side of things.[/QUOTE]
A lot of places, US and UK included, have make you have a year or often three, living as your desired gender full stop before they will allow the surgery, so they have no descision in it, other then to live as a gender they are not.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;32977854]You're externally still a man. In most cases you cannot expect other woman to be fine with this. In a sense, wearing female clothes while externally still male in public is your own decision, one that should not have much effect on other people.
In a sense it comes to a conflict of your right against the rights of others. Imagine if you were working at a company and did this and other female employees complained. The employer would most likely be forced to warn you about this behavior and if you continued to do it, fire you.
To be honest in some cases and some countries an employer could most likely fire you for not adhering to dresscode, most of all if you were to be dealing with other people.
After you get the surgery it's a completely different ballgame of course.
Don't take me wrong - I'm not going against your personal inner beliefs. This is more or less a conflict of interests, rights and expectations dealing with the external side of things.[/QUOTE]
The only things SRS really affects are not having to take anti-androgens anymore, and being more comfortable with what's down there. Both of which have nearly no social context at all (unless you're going stealth, which I really disadvise against,) so I ask: how does SRS magically make you acceptable?
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;32996257]It's another one of those things that will come around with time, societal change doesn't just happen over night.[/QUOTE]
it'd certainly come around faster if people would stop resisting the change by saying "societal change won't happen overnight"
[QUOTE=SigmaLambda;33020202]it'd certainly come around faster if people would stop resisting the change by saying "societal change won't happen overnight"[/QUOTE]
People will always resist change for whatever stupid reasons they have.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;32989312]I've had the exact opposite experience. My friend was dating a "chick" but she really wasn't and he only discovered when they were about to have sex. I was dating one girl too, thankfully a friend told me the secret beforehand. I am actually surprised there's so many of them.
Note, I do NOT hate them or are against them, I just want them to be open.
I am all for freedom of choice and free speech and rights for everyone, but both sides have to be open, not just one.[/QUOTE]
When they're dating someone,and realize that it's getting more serious than a kiss they should inform their partner before they get to bed.
I for one do not often understand why people make a big deal about it,people changed their gender for a REASON.If i was dating someone and they would turn out to be transgender i would discuss it with her(well,previously ''him'')and continue the relationship.As long as the person did not kept any ''male''parts :tinfoil:
[QUOTE=znk666;33023640]When they're dating someone,and realize that it's getting more serious than a kiss they should inform their partner before they get to bed.
I for one do not often understand why people make a big deal about it,people changed their gender for a REASON.If i was dating someone and they would turn out to be transgender i would discuss it with her(well,previously ''him'')and continue the relationship.As long as the person did not kept any ''male''parts :tinfoil:[/QUOTE]
If you really loved someone (or whatever your equivalent may be), I would hope you don't say "oh well it turns out I was in love with someone who has a penis, guess I hate you now".
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33028031]If you really loved someone (or whatever your equivalent may be), I would hope you don't say "oh well it turns out I was in love with someone who has a penis, guess I hate you now".[/QUOTE]
Especally if they are on the path to get it removed, as it can take years to go through the hoops of psychologists,doctors, and to save for the op.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33028031]If you really loved someone (or whatever your equivalent may be), I would hope you don't say "oh well it turns out I was in love with someone who has a penis, guess I hate you now".[/QUOTE]
I love my male friends but I would never marry them because I am not homosexual. Same with transgenders. We can be friends, but not lovers since sex and family and everything is a huge part of a relationship.
I wonder whether one day the idea of transgender-ism(?) will become outdated. I mean, seems to me that part of the reason they feel the need to change their body to the opposite sex is due to social expectations on gender?
I would imagine it would be better if people weren't begrudged for being anything they want to be, in any package.
That said, apart from the social implications, I see no reason why someone can't get any operation to change their body, nor any reason people should be offended or discriminatory towards this.
I, personally, am against transgender rights.. Not going to teach my children such a negative and conservative outlook, but my opinion stands.
[QUOTE=Paravin;33029472]I, personally, am against transgender rights.. Not going to teach my children such a negative and conservative outlook, but my opinion stands.[/QUOTE]
Latvia has nearly no people of other races because latvians are racist as shit. Also we have nearly no open gays because being one will result in a beating or two.
Yeah my flag is lithuanian now but my internet is bullshitting.
I wouldn't say we're racist. I am in contact with black people everyday, and I hear no racist remarks. It's homophobia which is really widespread.
They should be treated as people, no more. In my view they're just people with a certain mental disorder; that's fine. But they aren't a sexuality so grouping similar to heterosexuality and homosexuality isn't a place for transvestites.
[editline].[/editline]
I love how anyone with this point of view gets jumped on as a 'bigot' or 'racist' or any number of things.
Our ''racism'' is because we see black people really rarely, actually.
[QUOTE=Man Without Hat;33029586]They should be treated as people, no more. In my view they're just people with a certain mental disorder; that's fine. But they aren't a sexuality so grouping similar to heterosexuality and homosexuality isn't a place for transvestites.
[editline].[/editline]
I love how anyone with this point of view gets jumped on as a 'bigot' or 'racist' or any number of things.[/QUOTE]
Transvestite and transgender don't mean the same thing.
Also, I'd like to hear you reasoning on why homosexuality (or any other trait that involves identity) isn't a mental disorder, but transgenderism is?
[QUOTE=RyanDv3;33029778]Transvestite and transgender don't mean the same thing.
Also, I'd like to hear you reasoning on why homosexuality (or any other trait that involves identity) isn't a mental disorder, but transgenderism is?[/QUOTE]
[quote]dis·or·der/disˈôrdər/
Noun:
A state of confusion.
Verb:
Disrupt the systematic functioning or neat arrangement of[/quote]
They are confused about their gender; which accurately slides into the definition of disorder. Are you going to provide any evidence for your claim that it isn't a mental disorder, and definitions to clarify the difference between transvestite and transgender?
They are not confused about their gender, they actually identify themselves as the opposite gender. That is not confusion really. By that definition gay is a disorder too since they are confusing who they like.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33029923]They are not confused about their gender, they actually identify themselves as the opposite gender. That is not confusion really. By that definition gay is a disorder too since they are confusing who they like.[/QUOTE]
They are identifying themselves as the opposite of what they are.
[editline]29th October 2011[/editline]
I would be considered insane if I considered myself black. Homosexuals like the same gender as themself. There is no confusion there.
[QUOTE=Man Without Hat;33029943]They are identifying themselves as the opposite of what they are.
[editline]29th October 2011[/editline]
I would be considered insane if I considered myself black. Homosexuals like the same gender as themself. There is no confusion there.[/QUOTE]
They know that they're bodies are male/ female, but they feel that emotionally/psychologically like they are female/ male. In the exact same way that homosexuals know that they're bodies were made to have sex with the opposite sex, but they feel like having sex with the same sex.
What you are saying is like saying a mac with windows installed is a malfunctioning computer.
[QUOTE=Man Without Hat;33029943]They are identifying themselves as the opposite of what they are.
[editline]29th October 2011[/editline]
I would be considered insane if I considered myself black. Homosexuals like the same gender as themself. There is no confusion there.[/QUOTE]
I don't see any confusion here. Black is a race and you technically can't consider yourself as one because there is no difference. But with gender it's otherwise.
There is a reason why most girls like girly things and most boys like boy things and act accordingly. When you like and act like a girl, then you're a girl in a boy's body.
Even if it is a disorder, so fucking what?
[QUOTE=Man Without Hat;33029943]
I would be considered insane if I considered myself black.[/QUOTE]
Also, maybe you would be considered insane, but what does it matter? Why can't a white person feel like a black person (if that even means anything)?
[QUOTE=Man Without Hat;33029852]They are confused about their gender; which accurately slides into the definition of disorder. Are you going to provide any evidence for your claim that it isn't a mental disorder, and definitions to clarify the difference between transvestite and transgender?[/QUOTE]
The fact that they're difference words should tell you already that they mean different things.
Transvestite: "A person, especially a male, who assumes the dress and manner usually associated with the opposite sex."
Transgender: "A person appearing or attempting to be a member of the opposite sex, as a transsexual or habitual cross-dresser."
The difference may seem slight to you, but trust me it isn't. One is someone who is not attempting to become the opposite sex in a real, everyday way. The latter is someone with gender identity disorder.
[QUOTE=Man Without Hat;33029943]They are identifying themselves as the opposite of what they are.
[/QUOTE]
They are identifying their gender as opposite of their sex because there is very little linking the two
I want a transgendered wife.
[QUOTE=Man Without Hat;33029943]They are identifying themselves as the opposite of what they are.
[/QUOTE]
no
a very big no. gender is a fluid concept. someone can be one gender, and then a different gender, without any sort of physical change. you are linking gender to sex and That's Just Wrong Yo.
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