I don't think this is a whole lot different from rights for homosexuals. Allowing people to feel comfortable with who they are (and anyone who thinks they just need to accept it and act like their assigned sex can kiss my ass) vastly outweighs other people being "wierded out" by them or some shit.
Sorting out things like bathrooms could be a little hairy, that's the only issue I can think of.
[QUOTE=child birth;33033733]no
a very big no. gender is a fluid concept. someone can be one gender, and then a different gender, without any sort of physical change. you are linking gender to sex and That's Just Wrong Yo.[/QUOTE]
Isn't there this chemical or gene or something that essentially defines your gender? And if that chemical is different from your chromosomes then you get transgenders?
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33036790]Isn't there this chemical or gene or something that essentially defines your gender? And if that chemical is different from your chromosomes then you get transgenders?[/QUOTE]
you are not born with a gender. you are born with a sex and an assumed gender.
if you are talking about masculinity/femininity, you do not need to be feminine to identify as female, and you do not need to be masculine to identify as male.
[QUOTE=child birth;33040880]you are not born with a gender. you are born with a sex and an assumed gender.
if you are talking about masculinity/femininity, you do not need to be feminine to identify as female, and you do not need to be masculine to identify as male.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. And that is exactly not what I said.
Your gender is defined the same way your sexual preference is. You can't just turn transgender at a random time. There's a reason why most transgenders start as kids.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33041010]Exactly. And that is exactly not what I said.
Your gender is defined the same way your sexual preference is. You can't just turn transgender at a random time. There's a reason why most transgenders start as kids.[/QUOTE]
uh yeah you can dude
and also sexual orientation is fluid too. it is possible for someone to be straight, and then gay. or the other way around. you can't force it, but it happens.
[QUOTE=child birth;33041647]uh yeah you can dude
and also sexual orientation is fluid too. it is possible for someone to be straight, and then gay. or the other way around. you can't force it, but it happens.[/QUOTE]
I don't understand what we are debating here. Nothing of this has any relation to transgender rights.
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33036790]Isn't there this chemical or gene or something that essentially defines your gender? And if that chemical is different from your chromosomes then you get transgenders?[/QUOTE]
Oestrogen and Testosterone can play a significant part in defining your gender, however for the most part gender is constructed by society.
Give it to them...
There really isn't any reason to stop them.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;32969439]If the question is "should so-and-so have equal human rights," then the answer is always the same as this:
Are they a human?[/QUOTE]
This post got largely ignored, but I have to say, this is probably the best way to do human rights.
the thread title itself disgusts me.
[QUOTE=Variant;33051878]the thread title itself disgusts me.[/QUOTE]
Uh, sorry? I wasn't going to just call it "Human Rights", I needed to be specific.
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;33051953]Uh, sorry? I wasn't going to just call it "Human Rights", I needed to be specific.[/QUOTE]
not targeting you personally.
[QUOTE=Variant;33051878]the thread title itself disgusts me.[/QUOTE]
How come?
[QUOTE=N0 WAR;33052065]How come?[/QUOTE]
How it's even a topic to consider. It disgusts him how Transgender Rights even needs to be discussed, and how it should be a topic we think nothing of, because of how normal it is in our lives. How often do you hear people seriously discussing women's rights or rights between ethnic groups? None, because they're already equal, and society has accepted that.
Society has not, however, generally accepted transgender people to have rights.
[QUOTE=LegndNikko;33052305]How often do you hear people seriously discussing women's rights or rights between ethnic groups? None, because they're already equal, and society has accepted that.
[/QUOTE]
Women are far from being treated as equal in society
Just because they can vote and hold office doesn't mean they get fair treatment in other ways (pay, expectations of modesty concurrent to expectations of beauty, etc)
[QUOTE=Zeke129;33052841]Women are far from being treated as equal in society
Just because they can vote and hold office doesn't mean they get fair treatment in other ways (pay, expectations of modesty concurrent to expectations of beauty, etc)[/QUOTE]
Of course, there will always be sexism. And racism. And discrimination based off of sexual orientation.
But I did meant how they have (save for sexual orientations, unfortunately) equal rights.
What I would like to know is if a guy starts taking estrogen pills and grows a pair of knockers, can "he" use the ladies restroom even though he still has a wiener? Personally I don't think so. But afterwards he has gender surgery and now has a VA-J-J. Can he/she use the ladies room then?
[QUOTE=fourkillmaster;33082792]What I would like to know is if a guy starts taking estrogen pills and grows a pair of knockers, can "he" use the ladies restroom even though he still has a wiener? Personally I don't think so. But afterwards he has gender surgery and now has a VA-J-J. Can he/she use the ladies room then?[/QUOTE]
Who cares, if a man is extremely feminine and dedicates his life wearing women's clothes and being a women.. that's cool and all, there are a lot of men who like that.
And yeah sure, he should rather use women's restroom then if the women there don't even notice the difference. (Doesn't even require estrogen pills?)
Rights for transgenders, free rights for everyone. No really.
For everyone saying that Gender is a social construct, You're partly right, It is a social thing. However Gender Dysphoria happens in cultures where it's not a social construct. It's not going to just stop happening if you change the social ideas on Gender. Saying it would is a form of Cissexism and frankly it's annoying.
And before anyone asks:
Cis: having a congruent Gender and Sex.
Trans: Having a In-congruent Gender and Sex.
Oh! And for everyone who keeps using the term Transgender, please know it doesn't just apply to MtF and FtM people. Transgender is an umbrella term (Meaning anyone who doesn't fall in the expected gender roles of their society.) [URL="http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3839/tumblrlghi5oxjt71qciiul.jpg"]and here's a nice pretty picture to show things that fall under Transgender.[/URL]
[URL="http://pastebin.com/fPrXpTvy"]Here's a nice list of Cisbigotry that alot of you are showing just for another heads up.[/URL] Now shall we have a good clean and informed discussion? :3
[QUOTE=fourkillmaster;33082792]What I would like to know is if a guy starts taking estrogen pills and grows a pair of knockers, can "he" use the ladies restroom even though he still has a wiener? Personally I don't think so. But afterwards he has gender surgery and now has a VA-J-J. Can he/she use the ladies room then?[/QUOTE]
It's a little weird, but we wouldn't give different bathrooms to lesbians... it's not like the ladies bathrooms are filled with naked woman sauntering about and a transgender person would be lurking enjoying them all. It's a non-issue, and sadly not as entertaining as the images in your head.
Provided that there is a solid way to actually change your sex solidly to Male or Female, in conjunction with the proceedures you'd need , then I don't really see any problem with it.
Not entirely sure what you would do with - what I am going to offensively refer to as - "half ass transgenders". But I guess you'd just have to draw a arbitary set of distinctions between what is required to make you Male or Female.
[QUOTE=Grim Jam;33116644]It's a little weird, but we wouldn't give different bathrooms to lesbians... it's not like the ladies bathrooms are filled with naked woman sauntering about and a transgender person would be lurking enjoying them all. It's a non-issue, and sadly not as entertaining as the images in your head.
Provided that there is a solid way to actually change your sex solidly to Male or Female, in conjunction with the proceedures you'd need , then I don't really see any problem with it.
Not entirely sure what you would do with - what I am going to offensively refer to as - "half ass transgenders". But I guess you'd just have to draw a arbitary set of distinctions between what is required to make you Male or Female.[/QUOTE]
While I'm not as well versed on the entire process, from what I've heard, there are times that you're required to live your life for X amount of time as the opposite sex before you can complete your hormone treatment/SRS, etc., which could mean using the women's restroom as what would be perceived as "male". And another thing to think about - it's not a sudden, jarring transition. There will be an ambiguous, androgynous zone where it could look awkward to use either restroom.
Another thing is that I've heard, legally, there's nothing stopping you from using whichever restroom you please, so long as all you do is use the restroom. The only issue arises when you have ulterior motives or the like.
I don't even consider it a problem, let them have the same rights as everyone else.
[QUOTE=lapsus_;33116697]I don't even consider it a problem, let them have the same rights as everyone else.[/QUOTE]
The problem is that if you go out of your closet everyone will be "genderophpobic"
[QUOTE=AceOfDivine;33138856]The problem is that if you go out of your closet everyone will be "genderophpobic"[/QUOTE]
Transphobic*
I don't really see how people frowning upon transgenders has anything to do with transgender rights
I mean, there's nothing that says that you have the right to be liked by everyone
because if you frown upon a group of people you probably won't give them the rights they deserve.
why frown upon someone for doing nothing except defining themselves a certain way that doesn't affect anyone but them and has literally no change to anything whatsoever
"I don't really say how people frowning upon blacks has anything to do with black rights
I mean, there's nothing that says you have the right to be liked by everyone"
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;33146996]I don't really see how people frowning upon transgenders has anything to do with transgender rights[/QUOTE]
Uh, cause if someone doesn't like a group of people they typically disagree with letting those people have rights maybe?
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;32964529]Very simply in that it does not enhance the body, merely turning it into one form from another that isn't any more effective at its tasks than before.[/QUOTE]
holy fucking shit that comment is horrific. human beings are not task-based slaves to the hivemind of society.
Also, TG's should have equal rights to the sex they wish to be.
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