The soviet union wasn't at all a living hell.
1979
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fpUBy-UxgI[/media]
[QUOTE=Wakka;21068914]Lol, restrict freedom. Most of the freedoms you're enjoying exist because of socialist reforms (minimum wage, workers comp, worker unions, public schooling, welfare, and thanks to Obama: affordable healthcare).[/QUOTE]
Forced wages, forced comp, created to combat the socialist system, forced schooling,forced paying for people to sit on their asses, forced paying for other's health care.
Chalk another one up for socialism!
[QUOTE=Wakka;21068313]He wasn't psychotic. He was ruthless. If you were an enemy of the state or are in opposition, you were sent to the gulag. On the upside, he brought stability to Russia much like Saddam brought stability to Iraq.[/QUOTE]
My professor and I had an hour long discussion on it last week. He killed every person that could pose any threat to him. Call it ruthlessness, he was a paranoid psychopath. He killed his fucking wife because of a small argument at a dinner party.
Guess they decided to leave out the pictures of all the dead Ukrainians and others who were killed.
Bah no one cares about them anyway.
Im convinced Wakka, socialism is good. I was a fool.
[QUOTE=Wakka;21068948]The soviet union wasn't at all a living hell.
1979
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fpUBy-UxgI[/media][/QUOTE]
I could probably go to Iraq and take some nice pictures and put them in a Youtube video too.
I'm sure during the 20's and 30's you could find some examples of people living well in the U.S.S.R.
Let me just refer you to this-
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor[/url]
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;21069007]Forced wages, forced comp, created to combat the socialist system, forced schooling,forced paying for people to sit on their asses, forced paying for other's health care.
Chalk another one up for socialism![/QUOTE]
Ahahahahaha.
I'm putting you on my ignore list. :v:
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;21069041]Guess they decided to leave out the pictures of all the dead Ukrainians and others who were killed.
Bah no one cares about them anyway.
Im convinced Wakka, socialism is good. I was a fool.[/QUOTE]
socialism != what the russians called communism
please get learned
[QUOTE=Wakka;21069093]Ahahahahaha.
I'm putting you on my ignore list. :v:[/QUOTE]
No, don't. Then he'll just be convinced that he's winning the argument, and you're just ignoring him because you can't think of a response.
[QUOTE=kmathis;21069086]I could probably go to Iraq and take some nice pictures and put them in a Youtube video too.
I'm sure during the 20's and 30's you could find some examples of people living well in the U.S.S.R.
Let me just refer you to this-
[URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor[/URL][/QUOTE]
Two words: accident, famine.
Also, during the 20's and early 30's Russia was still developing it's infrastructure. Much of the Soviet Union was still as bad as it was during the feudal period of Imperial Russia.
Completely different story during the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's.
[QUOTE=SamPerson123;21069117]No, don't. Then he'll just be convinced that he's winning the argument, and you're just ignoring him because you can't think of a response.[/QUOTE]
This.
[QUOTE=Wakka;21069153]Two words: accident, famine.
Also, during the 20's and early 30's Russia was still developing it's infrastructure. Much of the Soviet Union was still as bad as it was during the feudal period of Imperial Russia.
Completely different story during the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's.[/QUOTE]
I agree - if Khrushchev had been in power longer, the USSR would have been much more successful.
[QUOTE=Wakka;21069153]Two words: accident, famine.
Also, during the 20's and early 30's Russia was still developing it's infrastructure. Much of the Soviet Union was still as bad as it was during the feudal period of Imperial Russia.
Completely different story during the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's.[/QUOTE]
Its an accident that they took all the grain from Ukraine and sold it to other countries?
Stalin must have been like "I accidentally the whole Ukraine"
[QUOTE=Wakka;21069153]Two words: accident, famine.
Also, during the 20's and early 30's Russia was still developing it's infrastructure. Much of the Soviet Union was still as bad as it was during the feudal period of Imperial Russia.
Completely different story during the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's.[/QUOTE]
Why are we still talking about Russia anyway? Russia is just a single case of socialism. Aren't there a bunch of socialized countries that are doing fine in Europe?
[QUOTE=Wakka;21069153]Two words: accident, famine.
Also, during the 20's and early 30's Russia was still developing it's infrastructure. Much of the Soviet Union was still as bad as it was during the feudal period of Imperial Russia.
Completely different story during the 1950's, 1960's, and 1970's.[/QUOTE]
ACCIDENT? are you out of your fucking mind? most major countries recognize Holodomor as a genocide. Between 7 and 10 million people died and you say it's an accident? Stalin TOOK the food these farmers grew themselves and sent it elsewhere.
[QUOTE=Leaf Runner;21067637]Socialism is much better then Democracy, in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
your opinion is incorrect
[QUOTE=SamPerson123;21069204]Why are we still talking about Russia anyway? Russia is just a single case of socialism. Aren't there a bunch of socialized countries that are doing fine in Europe?[/QUOTE]
The USSR was not socialism.
It was a brand of communism that wasn't fair, didn't help the people, and was completely fucked in the pooper by Stalin.
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;21069173]Its an accident that they took all the grain from Ukraine and sold it to other countries?
Stalin must have been like "I accidentally the whole Ukraine"[/QUOTE]
"The root cause of the Holodomor is [B]a subject of scholarly debate[/B].[11] Some scholars have argued that the [B]Soviet policies that caused the famine may have been designed as an attack on the rise of Ukrainian nationalism, and therefore fall under the legal definition of genocide[/B].[12][13][14][15][16] The Holodomor is also known as the "terror-famine in Ukraine"[17][18] and "famine-genocide in Ukraine".[19] Others, however, [B]conclude that the Holodomor was a consequence of the economic problems associated with radical economic changes implemented during the period of[/B] [B]Soviet industrialization[/B]"
:iiam:
[QUOTE=SamPerson123;21069204]Why are we still talking about Russia anyway? Russia is just a single case of socialism. Aren't there a bunch of socialized countries that are doing fine in Europe?[/QUOTE]
non of Europe's countries are socialist
France, Germany, The Netherlands, The United Kingdom, and Scandinavia are extremely capitalistic.
[QUOTE=thisispain;21069265]non of Europe's countries are socialist
France, Germany, The Netherlands, The United Kingdom, and Scandinavia are extremely capitalistic.[/QUOTE]
Oh well. :ms:
[QUOTE=OvB;21069251]"The root cause of the Holodomor is [B]a subject of scholarly debate[/B].[11] Some scholars have argued that the [B]Soviet policies that caused the famine may have been designed as an attack on the rise of Ukrainian nationalism, and therefore fall under the legal definition of genocide[/B].[12][13][14][15][16] The Holodomor is also known as the "terror-famine in Ukraine"[17][18] and "famine-genocide in Ukraine".[19] Others, however, [B]conclude that the Holodomor was a consequence of the economic problems associated with radical economic changes implemented during the period of[/B] [B]Soviet industrialization[/B]"
:iiam:[/QUOTE]
On January 12, 2010, the court of appeals in [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiev"]Kiev[/URL] opened hearings into the "fact of genocide-famine Holodomor in Ukraine in 1932-33", in May 2009 the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_Service_of_Ukraine"]Security Service of Ukraine[/URL] had started a criminal case "in relation to the genocide in Ukraine in 1932-33".[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor#cite_note-25"][26][/URL] [B]In a ruling on January 13, 2010 the court found [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Stalin"]Joseph Stalin[/URL] and other [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolshevik"]Bolshevik[/URL] leaders guilty of genocide against the Ukrainians; [/B]however, the court dropped criminal proceedings against the leaders, Joseph Stalin, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyacheslav_Molotov"]Vyacheslav Molotov[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazar_Kaganovich"]Lazar Kaganovich[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Kosior"]Stanislav Kosior[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pavel_Postyshev"]Pavel Postyshev[/URL] and others, due to their deaths.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor#cite_note-26"][/URL]
[QUOTE=thisispain;21069265]non of Europe's countries are socialist
France, Germany, The Netherlands, The United Kingdom, and Scandinavia are extremely capitalistic.[/QUOTE]
Hooray Capitalism!
[QUOTE=SamPerson123;21069204]Why are we still talking about Russia anyway? Russia is just a single case of socialism. Aren't there a bunch of socialized countries that are doing fine in Europe?[/QUOTE]
A lot of European countries after WW2 did socialize. Like Britain adding a Welfare State, Germany's Christian Democrats, and Italy had many communist and socialist parties.
I'm a staunch supporter of the Capitalism/Socialism third way. People who disagree with this are either historically uneducated, or (in case of Wakka) very committed to their views.
[QUOTE=thisispain;21069370]I'm a staunch supporter of the Capitalism/Socialism third way. People who disagree with this are either historically uneducated, or (in case of Wakka) very committed to their views.[/QUOTE]
He is so committed that he ignores people who have opposing views.
My idol.
[QUOTE=thisispain;21069370]I'm a staunch supporter of the Capitalism/Socialism third way. People who disagree with this are either historically uneducated, or (in case of Wakka) very committed to their views.[/QUOTE]
That means a mix of the two, right? It always seemed the most reasonable one to me as well.
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;21069416]
My idol.[/QUOTE]
who what where
[editline]07:40PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=SamPerson123;21069427]That means a mix of the two, right? It always seemed the most reasonable one to me as well.[/QUOTE]
Essentially, the way it is right now is pretty much the way I like it.
[QUOTE=thisispain;21069429]who what where
[editline]07:40PM[/editline]
Essentially, the way it is right now is pretty much the way I like it.[/QUOTE]
Pretty much this, yeah.
[QUOTE=FacepunchZen;21068146]The USSR killed off millions of people in their so called "class war" so that they could create the perfect human.
Socialism is great you are all right awesome shit right there.[/QUOTE]
Stop getting USSR and Hitler/Nazi Germany mixed up, Stalin and Lenin eliminated those who opposed them in order to create the system they wanted. Although Stalin was ruthless in some methods that failed utterly, Lenin was more sensible and eliminated only his opposition. They did not strive for any perfect human, that was Hitler's plan in order to create the master race: Aryans.
[QUOTE=Wakka;21067570]The following text is sliced from an editorial from AlterNet, written by Frances Moore Lappé.
[release]
For, if freedom means in part enjoying power over one’s destiny, workers in [b]Germany[/b] arguably have much more freedom than U.S. workers.
[/release]
[/QUOTE]
And this, is why I'm moving there when I am done with school and such
[QUOTE=beanhead;21070101]And this, is why I'm moving there when I am done with school and such[/QUOTE]
6 weeks of work off by law.
Damn it.
U.S. is 2 weeks for comparison.
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