[QUOTE=GamerKiwi;17082166]Europe is not a factor in how America works, just because Europe does something doesn't mean America should follow, even if it works. Socialism is putting the government in total control which is exactly the opposite of what the founding fathers had in mind. America was meant to be capitalist, it's the most free system that there is, with a socialist government or communist government, that's taking the free out of the free market.
The only services that the government should give is essential services such as a fire department, a police department, etc. I do believe that if we get a good plan for healthcare, we should pass it.[/QUOTE]
OH NO! The free market not free? NOOOO.
The free market has failed in America, time and time again. The founding fathers wanted state power, not central power. That's neither socialist or capitalist.
[editline]04:22PM[/editline]
[QUOTE='[LOA] SonofBrim;17083674']hahahahaha WHAT DO YOU MEAN WHERE WAS THIS HATE FOR BUSH?!? There used to be a thing where if you typed in "failure" on google it brought him up, mad magazine made a whole issue on how much they hated him, and much much more. Jeez.[/QUOTE]
It was unfounded?
[QUOTE=Trotsky;17083681]OH NO! The free market not free? NOOOO.
The free market has failed in America, time and time again. The founding fathers wanted state power, not central power. That's neither socialist or capitalist.
[editline]04:22PM[/editline]
It was unfounded?[/QUOTE]
All economies go up and down. It's the natural business cycle. You can't claim that the free market has failed us, when all economies drop and rise.
[QUOTE=IronPhoenix;17082045]What is wrong with socialism if it helps the people? We can't all be rich and afford the best.[/QUOTE]
"I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine"
Ayn Rand
[QUOTE=Kingy_who;17080809]I personaly think it's time for america to go socalist, the europe manages just fine, conservatives here are more or less socalist though.[/QUOTE]
No. Socialism fails. Here is why: A large portion of socialism revolves around taking money from people with greater income and giving it to those with less. Why is this bad? As the people who make money begin to realize they can still make money without working, they begin to stop working themselves, and collect that which is given out to them. As time goes on, less and less people actually work, until eventually, almost nobody does. When this happens, [highlight]there is no more money to give out.[/highlight] Now everybody is hopelessly poor, the government is practically bankrupt, and, now, to keep the country from falling apart, they have to force people to work, and heavily tax the little bit which you make. (essentially communism in its early stages, although i'm not calling Obama a communist)
So, [highlight]Socialism FAILS.[/highlight]
[QUOTE='[LOA] SonofBrim;17083755']No. Socialism fails. Here is why: A large portion of socialism revolves around taking money from people with greater income and giving it to those with less. Why is this bad? As the people who make money begin to realize they can still make money without working, they begin to stop working themselves, and collect that which is given out to them. As time goes on, less and less people actually work, until eventually, almost nobody does. When this happens, [highlight]there is no more money to give out.[/highlight] Now everybody is hopelessly poor, the government is practically bankrupt, and, now, to keep the country from falling apart, they have to force people to work, and heavily tax the little bit which you make. (essentially communism in its early stages, although i'm not calling Obama a communist)
So, [highlight]Socialism FAILS.[/highlight][/QUOTE]
Amen!
[QUOTE='[LOA] SonofBrim;17083755']No. Socialism fails. Here is why: A large portion of socialism revolves around taking money from people with greater income and giving it to those with less. Why is this bad? As the people who make money begin to realize they can still make money without working, they begin to stop working themselves, and collect that which is given out to them. As time goes on, less and less people actually work, until eventually, almost nobody does. When this happens, [highlight]there is no more money to give out.[/highlight] Now everybody is hopelessly poor, the government is practically bankrupt, and, now, to keep the country from falling apart, they have to force people to work, and heavily tax the little bit which you make. (essentially communism in its early stages, although i'm not calling Obama a communist)
So, [highlight]Socialism FAILS.[/highlight][/QUOTE]
You're right! Let us give absolutely no help to whoever is poor! It's their own fault for being born poor, and we should refuse to give them any form of decent health care or education! USA! USA!
You guys seem to be thinking that everything will shift to one of the extremes. It's as if some sort of balance is impossible to achieve.
[QUOTE=GamerKiwi;17082166]Socialism is putting the government in total control.[/QUOTE]
Not really.
[QUOTE='[LOA] SonofBrim;17083755']No. Socialism fails. Here is why: A large portion of socialism revolves around taking money from people with greater income and giving it to those with less. Why is this bad? As the people who make money begin to realize they can still make money without working, they begin to stop working themselves, and collect that which is given out to them. As time goes on, less and less people actually work, until eventually, almost nobody does. When this happens, [highlight]there is no more money to give out.[/highlight] Now everybody is hopelessly poor, the government is practically bankrupt, and, now, to keep the country from falling apart, they have to force people to work, and heavily tax the little bit which you make. (essentially communism in its early stages, although i'm not calling Obama a communist)
So, [highlight]Socialism FAILS.[/highlight][/QUOTE]
so true, look at countries like france and germany, they're sitting on their asses all day long and eat their strange food!
[QUOTE=deltasquid;17083827]You're right! Let us give absolutely no help to whoever is poor! It's their own fault for being born poor, and we should refuse to give them any form of decent health care or education! USA! USA!
You guys seem to be thinking that everything will shift to one of the extremes. It's as if some sort of balance is impossible to achieve.[/QUOTE]
What this guy said. People (especially those picky, snobby and scaredy-cat Americans) tend to think to the extreme a bit too much.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;17083827]You're right! Let us give absolutely no help to whoever is poor! It's their own fault for being born poor, and we should refuse to give them any form of decent health care or education! USA! USA!
You guys seem to be thinking that everything will shift to one of the extremes. It's as if some sort of balance is impossible to achieve.[/QUOTE]
You say not to think that everything is in extreme, so I suppose the poor aren't that bad in needing help.
Besides, I take care of myself and my family. Everyone else is their own problem.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;17083827]You're right! Let us give absolutely no help to whoever is poor! It's their own fault for being born poor, and we should refuse to give them any form of decent health care or education! USA! USA!
You guys seem to be thinking that everything will shift to one of the extremes. It's as if some sort of balance is impossible to achieve.[/QUOTE]
I am not saying the poor should not be helped. I am saying they should have more restrictions (i can't stand seeing fat druggies walking into some convenience store and buying a kart full of tastycakes with foodstamps)
and i think they should have to try to get a job, before the government has to get one for them.
I think poor people deserve our help. [highlight]However, I can't stand those people who make no effort to get a job and put back into what they are taking out of, but rather sit on their buts all day collecting government checks.[/highlight]
[QUOTE=deltasquid;17083827]You're right! Let us give absolutely no help to whoever is poor! It's their own fault for being born poor, and we should refuse to give them any form of decent health care or education! USA! USA!
You guys seem to be thinking that everything will shift to one of the extremes. It's as if some sort of balance is impossible to achieve.[/QUOTE]
Compromising good and evil only leads evil to win.
Claiming that a virtue, such as production is a man's most ultimate vice is the true definition of immorality. Allowing leaches to lead the most productive of our society essentially to the sacrificial alter is immorality in it's work. When the most productive of our society are finally sacrificed, we can happily return to the dark ages of mysticism. If you think money is the root of all evil, then what is the root of money? The symbol of the productivity of man's mind and reason.
[QUOTE='[LOA] SonofBrim;17083906']
and i think they should have to try to get a job, before the government has to get one for them.[/QUOTE]
You have the government already regulating jobs for poor people (which is 'socialist' as you people say it) and seem to be fine with that, yet government-regulated healthcare is bad?
America's system benefits the rich.
The rest of the Socialist system of the rest of the world benefits the poor.
Therefore America needs to change and adapt.
[QUOTE=StukovCA;17083921]Compromising good and evil only leads evil to win.
Claiming that a virtue, such as production is a man's most ultimate vice is the true definition of immorality. Allowing leaches to lead the most productive of our society essentially to the sacrificial alter is immorality in it's work. When the most productive of our society are finally sacrificed, we can happily return to the dark ages of mysticism. If you think money is the root of all evil, then what is the root of money? Productivity of man's mind and reason.[/QUOTE]
Sharrup, Randroid.
Alright, extreme socialist.
Ooh, it's a black-or-white one-or-another, is it?
[QUOTE=dutchah;17083932]You have the government already regulating jobs for poor people (which is 'socialist' as you people say it) and seem to be fine with that, yet government-regulated healthcare is bad?[/QUOTE]
Then explain to me why the government regulated healthcare is good. But don't just throw crap about "NOW EVERYBODY CAN HAVE IT" out there.
[editline]11:47AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=HubmaN V2;17083962]Ooh, it's a black-or-white one-or-another, is it?[/QUOTE]
Wait, what?
[QUOTE='[LOA] SonofBrim;17083755']No. Socialism fails. Here is why: A large portion of socialism revolves around taking money from people with greater income and giving it to those with less. Why is this bad? As the people who make money begin to realize they can still make money without working, they begin to stop working themselves, and collect that which is given out to them. As time goes on, less and less people actually work, until eventually, almost nobody does. When this happens, [highlight]there is no more money to give out.[/highlight] Now everybody is hopelessly poor, the government is practically bankrupt, and, now, to keep the country from falling apart, they have to force people to work, and heavily tax the little bit which you make. (essentially communism in its early stages, although i'm not calling Obama a communist)
So, [highlight]Socialism FAILS.[/highlight][/QUOTE]
Socialism requires a good government. But what you're saying is true and yet not. No sane person would make it so the jobless fucks can suck on the taxes and welfare system that the highly educated and hard working people contribute to. The government can control the people pretty well with the right rules and paragraphs.
However, capitalism is worse in my opinion. In its nature you can rename it "survival for the fittest". No taxes at all will result in extremely expensive healthcare systems and just about everything a socialistic country provides its citizens with for free is freaking expensive in the capitalistic country. The the idea of "those with money will get more money, if they don't they can fuck off" doesn't really sound nice too.
But my ideal government would be a slightly socialistic one. Healthcare and help for those we need it is preserved but you can still benefit from having a good job.
Get your government hands off of my medicare!
:downs:
[QUOTE=Negrul1;17083838][quote]Socialism is putting the government in total control.[/quote]
Not really.[/QUOTE]
My problem is that although it doesn't initially, it leads to that, as eventually the government has to get too involved with people's lives, has to increase taxes, etc, because of an over-all lack of money once less people work on their own. Socialism works in theory, just not in real life.
Please tell me, how is it fair that I work hard for money, and then it gets taken away for someone else?
[quote=emperor scorpious ii;17084029]please tell me, how is it fair that i work hard for money, and then it gets taken away for someone else?[/quote]
yes. This is my point.
[QUOTE=Kingy_who;17082005]why is America so scared of the slightly left[/QUOTE]
Many human beings are scared of change. They simply don't want changes to be made.
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;17084047]Many human beings are scared of change. They simply don't want changes to be made.[/QUOTE]
But Obama's campaign was
CHANGE
WE NEED
[QUOTE=Jet-fly;17083985]Socialism requires a good government. But what you're saying is true and yet not. [highlight]No sane person would make it so the jobless fucks can suck on the taxes and welfare system that the highly educated and hard working people contribute to.[/highlight] The government can control the people pretty well with the right rules and paragraphs.
[/QUOTE]
The thing that scares me is that this is what it looks like may be happening...
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;17084047]Many human beings are scared of change. They simply don't want changes to be made.[/QUOTE]
Then how did Obama get elected??
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;17084085]Then how did Obama get elected??[/QUOTE]
People didn't take the time to look into him. They just trusted what the media fed to them. People are already beginning to regret him, his approval ratings are slowly going down.
[QUOTE='[LOA] SonofBrim;17084100']People didn't take the time to look into him. They just trusted what the media fed to them. People are already beginning to regret him, his approval ratings are slowly going down.[/QUOTE]
+1 Agree
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