[QUOTE=archangel125;24210580]Right. North Americans seem horrified when people say that they got beat by their parents as kids. I don't get it. Now I'm no parent or anything yet, but I'm almost 21 now, and yeah, I got beat by my parents when I messed up as a kid, back when I was living in the Middle East. They used the strap of a belt. Stings enough to get the point across, but doesn't scar or do any other permanent damage.
In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with corporal discipline. When your kids are too young or stupid to understand why they shouldn't do something even after you explain it to them, other forms of negative reinforcement may be needed. Mind you, I'm not saying that a huge 200lb dad should be able to kick the shit out of a toddler, I'm talking about stuff like slaps on the wrist and, when the kid is older, maybe the strap of a belt. Do I harbor any resentment towards my parents for the punishments I received in that manner? No. I was a stupid kid and it helped me straighten out. And they never overdid it, and always explained things first and gave me a chance to correct myself before they resorted to it.
I don't think I'm traumatized or psychologically scarred or anything. It made me a little tougher.
All I'm saying is that people shouldn't see it as the difference between two extremes: Not touching your kid as opposed to beating the very life out of him. There's moderation for everything, and as a conditioning tool, corporal punishment in careful moderation can be useful.
You're almost all westerners here. What do you think?[/QUOTE]
When kids are small they take in information of what to do. By hitting them you learn them that violence is right for the greater good, when all you really need is a good tounge and some well placed words to make both parts benefit from a situation.
Corporal judgement can indeed work, but in my opinion it's better to not hit your kids.
[QUOTE=archangel125;24217523]I was told to put stuff away after I'd used it when I was seven or eight. I was told this politely several times. They even grounded me a few times, but I didn't get the point. Finally, I got a couple of straps with the belt, and decided it was time I made the effort to improve, if only to avoid the stinging belt again. And now I'm glad I did. They didn't hit me more than twice with the damn thing, but it got the point across when nothing else did. Do I resent it? No. It stung only a little more than a slap would, and it did no damage at all. My reason for improving then might have been just to avoid the punishment, but now I'm glad my parents got me into the habit of doing it, or I'd be very, very disorganized and inconsiderate. They only ever used it when I was being an asshole for no good reason, as kids are wont to do. The result? I care more about how others feel now and I have learned the value of diplomacy and compromise in any conflict.[/QUOTE]
Again, words are silent, actions are loud, but that's still the wrong kind of action. You might have gotten the right idea from it, but it has certainly even if you do not know it shaped you into a lesser, more submissive person and to think all the ways...
all the ways you could have so easily gotten the wrong idea.
[QUOTE=BmB;24217876]Again, words are silent, actions are loud, but that's still the wrong kind of action. You might have gotten the right idea from it, but it has certainly even if you do not know it shaped you into a lesser, more submissive person and to think all the ways...
all the ways you could have so easily gotten the wrong idea.[/QUOTE]
Uh, no it hasn't. I'm not submissive at all. FFS, I'm in the Police Academy.
When I was a kid, my mom hit me for walking onto the roads near my school.
I didn't learn jack and continued.
Then one day I found her crying in her room, because she was afraid I would run out and get ran over by a car.
I learned my lesson and never did it again.
And why do you think that's the right thing to do? I'll say you more easily accept the norms of society as true without question because of your upbringing. That's a kind of submission.
These kinds of archaic parenting methods were made to create obedience, but what we need today is creativity.
[QUOTE=BmB;24218347]And why do you think that's the right thing to do? I'll say you more easily accept the norms of society as true without question because of your upbringing. That's a kind of submission.
These kinds of archaic parenting methods were made to create obedience, but what we need today is creativity.[/QUOTE]
Uh. I was raised catholic. I'm an Atheist now, though my parents don't like it, and I'm openly Atheist. I bash the Catholic Church all the time and I think someone should shoot the Pope because he's an asshole and they can't get a new one until he's dead. This is me being submissive and not questioning anything, right? I argue endlessly with people on such issues, and my parents most of all.
[QUOTE=archangel125;24218424]Uh. I was raised catholic. I'm an Atheist now, though my parents don't like it, and I'm openly atheist. I bash the catholic church all the time and I think someone should shoot the pope because he's an asshole and they can't get a new one until he's dead. This is me being submissive and not questioning anything, right?[/QUOTE]
You're going to hell.
Edit: And the devil will beat some sense into you.
[QUOTE=Ali Legend;24218443]You're going to hell.[/QUOTE]
That's where the party is.
The music is on until 11. Bring your own belt.
It depends on HOW it's carried out. When a parent beats the shit out of their kid, something is VERY, VERY WRONG. My parents, however, at times did spank me, sometimes even slap me, but very rarely, if I did something dangerously stupid or so. (Like, falling into a frozen lake 'cause I ran on thin ice, almost killing myself when I first learned to ski, or once for really bad grades).
However, they never did it with the intention of causing pain. It was usually hurt just enough to be unpleasant. What mattered was the OH SHIT I SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ACTING STUPID lesson, which I learned in every single case. I guess I'll spank my kids when they almost kill themselves, too.
[QUOTE=archangel125;24217822]I said in my OP that it's not right if the kid doesn't know why he's being punished. Nobody reads shit anymore.[/QUOTE]
I was acknowledging the guy above me's post.
[QUOTE=archangel125;24218424]Uh. I was raised catholic. I'm an Atheist now, though my parents don't like it, and I'm openly Atheist. I bash the Catholic Church all the time and I think someone should shoot the Pope because he's an asshole and they can't get a new one until he's dead. This is me being submissive and not questioning anything, right? I argue endlessly with people on such issues, and my parents most of all.[/QUOTE]
Religious beliefs are hardly the norm anymore though.
[QUOTE=BmB;24218626]Religious beliefs are hardly the norm anymore though.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. I'm Christian, but I've acknowledged that I'm going to hell by now, so I don't really care about sinning.
[QUOTE=BmB;24218626]Religious beliefs are hardly the norm anymore though.[/QUOTE]
Please, BmB. I just want to hear you admit that while some people may react badly to physical discipline, there are exceptions, like me. All your theories so far on the effects of it have been proven false anyway. Though admittedly, for some people they may prove true. It's all a matter of context.
Trust me, the effect is there, however subtle.
Look for it and you will find it.
I was only ever spanked like 3 times by my father and I deserved every one of them and I believe it was good for my development of the concept of right and wrong, good and bad
[QUOTE=BmB;24218721]Trust me, the effect is there, however subtle.
Look for it and you will find it.[/QUOTE]
You've never experienced it before, as I have. You don't know me at all, and you have no way of knowing what my personality is like. The fact that I'm bothering with this argument at all shows that I'm not submissive, let alone my other posts on this forum and my general attitude. What hell kind of effect are you talking about? If anything, it toughened me up. Made me nice and strong. From what authority are you saying there's some invisible negative effect when I've only ever known the positive ones?
It makes more sense to ground them. If they break the law in real life they won't be able to do anything, either.
Unless you're in like, L.A., then the cops would beat you [I]then[/I] throw you in jail.
I remember my parents had hit me not so hard when I was younger, but I deserved it because I had done stupid things. But it's not like they grabbed an object and hit me with it, just a slap on the face. It also did not happen often.
But in the end it actually helped, but that does not mean I recommend parents to hit their children. Another bad idea is to scream and shout to your child (in an excessive way of course).
I think the best way to raise your child is that you make (or try to make) your points clear when the child is very young. Like at the age of 2 and with simple things. Like when a child draws on the wall. And when the child cries, you let him cry until he is done. I think (and I obviously don't know for sure but my thoughts are) that the child will see that crying and begging will have no effect at all.
It's how I got raised except when I cried a lot, I got a slap in the face.
Oh and what I really have noticed is when I was at holiday in Turkey, I've seen that most of the children there are a lot more mannered than the ones here. They seem to be more grateful for things. Oh and respect, they have lots of respect to the elder, especially their grand parents.
[editline]11:47PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kalibos;24218754]I was only ever spanked like 3 times by my father and I deserved every one of them and I believe it was good for my development of the concept of right and wrong, good and bad[/QUOTE]
so this basically
I'm fine with it. I only got beat when I did absolutely stupid shit as a kid and I deserved it. Everybody does stupid shit as a kid. It's normal so don't act like you were all angels who never did anything wrong because their parents were perfect too.
[QUOTE=BmB;24218721]Trust me, the effect is there, however subtle.
Look for it and you will find it.[/QUOTE]
Christ, you're one of those people that think they know more than they do.
How can you possibly act like you know for a fact that he being hit as a kid has some sort of detrimental affect on his present personality?
You literally have no fucking idea what you're talking about. Do you even have ANY experience with this other than 'your girlfriend's kid' or a bunch of studies you found on wikipedia?
My parents smacked me as a kid. Usually on the ass, once. I used to do shit stupid stuff. Its taught me to be remorseful of what i did, i hate the feeling so i usually don't do bad shit anymore. I am living proof it works. Some kids in my school has got everything but discipline from the tit. They get D's and E's (F's, the took F's away because it "made the student feel bad") I am a A student, with an interest in game design and physiology, and i have friends. Also those people are assholes to everyone outside there friends circle. I think it implants a negative association to doing something bad with spanking.
You're absolutely setting completely wrong examples when you beat your children. It isn't even a matter of opinion. Children who were beaten have been proven to have much higher homicide and violence rates; I know there's going to be someone in high school who says, "But my teacher says correlation doesn't equal causation!", and the short answer is that they're usually wrong.
BmB stop making assumptions about people you've never met.
It makes you look stupid.
Because it's stupid.
[QUOTE=Destitide;24223241]You're absolutely setting completely wrong examples when you beat your children. It isn't even a matter of opinion. Children who were beaten have been proven to have much higher homicide and violence rates; I know there's going to be someone in high school who says, "But my teacher says correlation doesn't equal causation!", and the short answer is that they're usually wrong.[/QUOTE]
There's the problem: Beating your child, and spanking your child in the ass once or twice if he does stupid shit is not the same.
If a parent actually BEATS, in the word's everyday aggressive sense, then there's a huge problem. But you see, if done right (and rarely), it can teach the kid without doing harm. I'm a living proof, among many others.
[QUOTE=Destitide;24223241]You're absolutely setting completely wrong examples when you beat your children. It isn't even a matter of opinion. Children who were beaten have been proven to have much higher homicide and violence rates; I know there's going to be someone in high school who says, "But my teacher says correlation doesn't equal causation!", and the short answer is that they're usually wrong.[/QUOTE]
Citation needed, otherwise I shall simply assume what you said is absolute bullshit.
Corporal punishment is only used by parents who do not know how to raise their children correctly; they get frustrated and then turn to some sort of physical violence to get their way.
It's quick.
It's simple.
It's the lazy person's style of parenting.
Parents nowadays don't have as much time to sit down with their children and have talks, or to use methods which, while more time-consuming, are successful without resorting to physicality.
It doesn't solve the issue, it only makes it worse and causes many more problems than it solves.
[QUOTE=Mad Chatter;24216406]Corporal Punishment should be taken as seriously as hitting a dog on the nose with a newspaper when he does something bad.
You're trying to train your child to be a better person by letting them know that there are harsh consequences for when they fuck up. They'll eventually stop fucking up because they don't want to get hit. It's as simple as that.
You're not supposed to full on kick the kid's ass but spanking or a slap upside the head every once in a while would do them good.[/QUOTE]
You hit dogs because they can't be reasoned with. As opposed to a human, which can be reasoned with. You can explain to a child why they shouldn't do whatever and convince them that it's not the right thing to do.
[QUOTE=Kontradaz;24223457]Citation needed, otherwise I shall simply assume what you said is absolute bullshit.
Corporal punishment is only used by parents who do not know how to raise their children correctly; they get frustrated and then turn to some sort of physical violence to get their way.
It's quick.
It's simple.
It's the lazy person's style of parenting.
Parents nowadays don't have as much time to sit down with their children and have talks, or to use methods which, while more time-consuming, are successful without resorting to physicality.
It doesn't solve the issue, it only makes it worse and causes many more problems than it solves.[/QUOTE]
Which wasn't the case with my parents.
In other words,
[citation needed]
[QUOTE=archangel125;24223820]Which wasn't the case with my parents.
In other words,
[citation needed][/QUOTE]
Citation needed does not apply to something that should be common knowledge. And what didn't apply to your parents? Just because you ended up one way due to the way they treated you does not mean that you would have turned out worse had they not used force. Who knows, maybe you would be a better individual now had they used a different method?
Sounds like a whole lot of babies in here. I'm a firm believer in corporal punishment. Children need to be disciplined not negotiated with.
It's about respecting your parents, too. When your parent tells you to do something, you do it. It's not a matter of discussion.
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