[QUOTE=Kybalt;24308730]not really. you really don't need it, it really doesn't help anything. the golden rule pretty much explains it pretty well, without the need for angels and demons.[/QUOTE]
But not everyone heeds the Golden Rule, sadly. While it may be true for certain parts of the world, others are darker.
[editline]02:42AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=PeanutTHENINJA;24308792]Maybe not a god that created us, but a massive intelligence?[/QUOTE]
Or a foreign intelligence, i.e. Xenu. Terrible example, but you know what I mean. Aliens.
[QUOTE=amcwatters;24308608]I believe this entirely, and believe[B] he knows your heart before you commit your action[/B]s, but I still feel that [B]we have free will[/B]. Pardon me if I just sound ignorant based on the logic of it, but that's just me, I suppose.[/QUOTE]
That's impossible.
[QUOTE=hehe;24308663]The Columbine massacre is an example of people taking atheism/Darwinism out of context.[/QUOTE]
Didn't they kill people that annoyed them? The hell, man.
[QUOTE=Drasnus;24308805]That's impossible.[/QUOTE]
I think AMC is saying that God would know what you Want to do (where your heart is), but that you still have a choice (you don't always follow your heart), perhaps?
[QUOTE=hehe;24308789][b]Both Clebold and Harris wrote on their blogs about their grudge against humanity and their hate for many people at their school.[/b]
Not to mention one of them wore a natural selection t shirt on the day.
[/QUOTE]
this has nothing to do with atheism or darwinism.
the natural selection t shirt, could have been them being "ironic". you really don't know. i have yet to find their religious views anywhere right now, so i think you're pulling shit out of your ass.
[QUOTE=Azurionas;24308835]I think AMC is saying that God would know what you Want to do (where your heart is), but that you still have a choice (you don't always follow your heart), perhaps?[/QUOTE]
God would also know exactly what you're going to do. But since no matter what, that one thing is what you are going to do, then you aren't really making a choice. Therefore, omnipotent God and free will are incompatible.
well i joined in a little late, but i would like to say if Christians were sensible then there would be no Christians
[QUOTE=PeanutTHENINJA;24308792]Maybe not a god that created us, but a massive intelligence?[/QUOTE]
okay this explains why we can trace evolution back down to the beginnings of life and stuff. unless you want to get into abiogenesis, which by itself works fairly well without outside help. the fact here is that you're trying to fill in the gaps with a deity, or something deityious, and i can't for the life of me understand why you can't just accept that we don't know.
[editline]02:48AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Azurionas;24308835]I think AMC is saying that God would know what you Want to do (where your heart is), but that you still have a choice (you don't always follow your heart), perhaps?[/QUOTE]
the fact of the matter is that he still knows what the fuck it is you're going to end up doing.
[QUOTE=TheBatman;24308849]God would also know exactly what you're going to do. But since no matter what, that one thing is what you are going to do, then you aren't really making a choice. Therefore, omnipotent God and free will are incompatible.[/QUOTE]
Not necessarily. Remember, since we're talking about religion everyone has their own take. Maybe God's observations are like watching a play, with sides? That he sees their thoughts and desires, but not the outcome until it occurs?
[QUOTE=PeanutTHENINJA;24308792]Maybe not a god that created us, but a massive intelligence?[/QUOTE]
It sounds possible, like, a sort of all-powerful being that's watching us. He/She/It does not make choices for us, but simply watches us. Maybe for entertainment, maybe to give us problems to see if we can find solutions for them. And so on.
[QUOTE=thirty9th;24308594]I suppose my main reason for wanting God is that such a reality would mean happiness or peace for anyone would never have to end. Also, the human mind probably can't perceive what's beyond life without an afterlife besides "black". And that's just depressing. Pondering that in itself would upset me to no end.[/QUOTE]
But what if it's true? It opens up a whole new path of thinking, one that shouldn't be ignored. Why should you guide your life on a lie? Why would you want to do this to yourself?
I like to think of it this way: Either way, you're not going to be here anymore. I just think it's going to be the ultimate relaxation. You'll be dead, but you will become the soil. New life will emerge from you. You will live on in the way you affected the world. Your presence in the world can never be undone, and hopefully, your children will pick up where you left off. How is this worse than an eternal life of boredom?
[QUOTE=Azurionas;24308892]Not necessarily. Remember, since we're talking about religion everyone has their own take. Maybe God's observations are like watching a play, with sides? [b]That he sees their thoughts and desires, but not the outcome until it occurs?[/b][/QUOTE]
then he is not all knowing.
[img]http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n316/rust2007/Epicurus.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Kybalt;24308876]okay this explains why we can trace evolution back down to the beginnings of life and stuff. unless you want to get into abiogenesis, which by itself works fairly well without outside help. the fact here is that you're trying to fill in the gaps with a deity, or something deityious, and i can't for the life of me understand why you can't just accept that we don't know.[/QUOTE]
Not really, I'm thinking of something more like a star cluster or a nebula that would make these types of things on accident, the whole mass intelligence thing was just part of my brainstorm. Of course it would be created like other anomalies are.
[QUOTE=TAU!;24308893]It sounds possible, like, a sort of all-powerful being that's watching us. He/She/It does not make choices for us, but simply watches us. Maybe for entertainment, maybe to give us problems to see if we can find solutions for them. And so on.[/QUOTE]
why must we wonder this? Its like wondering if there are monkeys at the middle of the earth. why is it that people with no real reason must cling to a god?
Everyone's perception of God is different. There is no definitive God, only beliefs.
[QUOTE=Azurionas;24308949]Everyone's perception of God is different. There is no definitive God, only beliefs.[/QUOTE]
then you're saying that god doesn't exist?
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;24308935]why must we wonder this? Its like wondering if there are monkeys at the middle of the earth. why is it that people with no real reason must cling to a god?[/QUOTE]
There are real reasons.
Some people have lost hope and need it.
Some were raised on it and refuse to believe otherwise.
Some personally experience it and accept it.
I don't believe in a God. At least, I don't think so. But regardless, I believe that people should be allowed to have faith in what they wish, so long as they do not judge others upon it.
[QUOTE=Azurionas;24308835]I think AMC is saying that God would know what you Want to do (where your heart is), but that you still have a choice (you don't always follow your heart), perhaps?[/QUOTE]
If he can't see what everyone will do, he is not all powerful.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;24308935]why must we wonder this? Its like wondering if there are monkeys at the middle of the earth. why is it that people with no real reason must cling to a god?[/QUOTE]
Like clinging onto a strength you do not have yourself. Being told that there is a power out there, and that if you give your eternal belief to it and love it endlessly, you will gain the strength you desire. Maybe you're promised a place in "heaven," or some other place based on paradise. Or something along those lines.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;24308962]then you're saying that god doesn't exist?[/QUOTE]
I'm saying there's no proof one way or the other and people believe in it. Whether your opinion is different, as long as they're not hurting anyone I don't see the problem. Sometimes having a God can help people.
[editline]02:57AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Drasnus;24308990]If he can't see what everyone will do, he is not all powerful.[/QUOTE]
Then someone's God is a tragic hero.
[QUOTE=Azurionas;24308979]There are real reasons.
Some people have lost hope and need it.
Some were raised on it and refuse to believe otherwise.
Some personally experience it and accept it.
[b]I don't believe in a God. At least, I don't think so. But regardless, I believe that people should be allowed to have faith in what they wish, so long as they do not judge others upon it.[/b][/QUOTE]
me too. and then i see threads In The News like this
[url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=990449[/url]
or
[url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=990576[/url]
and realize just how much of an idealistic view that is.
[editline]02:58AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Azurionas;24308999]I'm saying there's no proof one way or the other and people believe in it. Whether your opinion is different, [b]as long as they're not hurting anyone I don't see the problem.[/b] Sometimes having a God can help people.
[editline]02:57AM[/editline]
Then someone's God is a tragic hero.[/QUOTE]
refer to linked threads.
[editline]02:59AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=TAU!;24308993]Like clinging onto a strength you do not have yourself. Being told that there is a power out there, and that if you give your eternal belief to it and love it endlessly, you will gain the strength you desire. Maybe you're promised a place in "heaven," or some other place based on paradise. Or something along those lines.[/QUOTE]
or maybe they can just stop being wankers. you either do, or you do not. you either can, or you cannot. believing in yourself is more productive then believing in a god. it also doesnt bring the nasties of religion with it.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;24309010]me too. and then i see threads In The News like this
[url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=990449[/url]
or
[url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=990576[/url]
and realize just how much of an idealistic view that is.
[editline]02:58AM[/editline]
refer to linked threads.
[editline]02:59AM[/editline]
or maybe they can just stop being wankers. you either do, or you do not. you either can, or you cannot. believing in yourself is more productive then believing in a god. it also doesnt bring the nasties of religion with it.[/QUOTE]
Separation of church and state is another thing. In which case, yeah. Religion should not be involved.
Also, first thread second post. See all the dumbs?
The people who rated dumb agree with you.
I agree with you, for the most part. But I'm not one to discriminate by belief. I find it hypocritical.
[QUOTE=Azurionas;24309068]Separation of church and state is another thing. In which case, yeah.[b] Religion should not be involved.[/b]
Also, first thread second post. See all the dumbs?[/QUOTE]
i completely agree. except it still is. got a better plan?
[QUOTE=Kybalt;24309089]i completely agree. except it still is. got a better plan?[/QUOTE]
Of course, genocide.
[editline]03:03AM[/editline]
Human genocide.
LET THE ROBOT WARS COMMENCE
[editline]03:04AM[/editline]
But really, it's an issue that needs to be tackled in due time. Progression, remember? I think we can take this on earlier than finding the origin of existence.
Concerning religion, I really hate how certain people will automatically think "God wills it" if their child is diagnosed with some horrible disease. Along with "It's up to God to see what happens" as if he/she/it will let the child live or die.
well poverty makes people turn to religion, so does war and bad education. it seems that if we fix this world then religion will go away.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;24309123]well poverty makes people turn to religion, so does war and bad education. it seems that if we fix this world then religion will go with it[/QUOTE]
i like this idea.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;24309123]well poverty makes people turn to religion, so does war and bad education. it seems that if we fix this world then religion will go away.[/QUOTE]
That will take time, and seems nearly impossible with devotion and all.
[QUOTE=TAU!;24309117]Concerning religion, I really hate how certain people will automatically think "God wills it" if their child is diagnosed with some horrible disease. Along with "It's up to God to see what happens" as if he/she/it will let the child live or die.[/QUOTE]
That situation is truly a traumatic experience. Not everyone can handle it I suppose, so they turn to a higher power for help.
Story: my classmate, a few years back died from Cystic Fibrosis. I didn't know her well, but she had no faith. She knew what she had for what it was, a terminal illness. However, after her passing her mother turned to God.
Her mother wrote a book, it's called Beyond Breathing.
[editline]03:10AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=TAU!;24309151]That will take time, and seems nearly impossible with devotion and all.[/QUOTE]
'Nearly impossible' being the key words. It's still possible, and because of human nature we'll try our hardest to achieve it.
[editline]03:10AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Kybalt;24309137]i like this idea.[/QUOTE]
Same here.
It could be entirely possible if an explanation was made, to all those faithful and unfaithful, on how we could further human progress and survival if they dropped their grievances for one another (and towards the beliefs of each group.) But, that's nothing simple.
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