[QUOTE=Azurionas;24307695]I think I remember Dr. Freeman being a source of a lot of trouble.
[b]Also, cannot get enough of this damn quote system. It is pretty awesome.[/b][/QUOTE]
did you like just get here. you joined in december 09... :v:
[quote=amcwatters]This wasn't so bad, I can sort of agree with that, but it's pushing it for me.[/quote]
Yeah, it is a stretch. It's honestly kind of asking for trolling/flamewars that way.
[QUOTE=superdinoman;24307714]It is, you can go to any animal and a reward will always be a powerful thing. Why do you think dogs are easy to train?[/QUOTE]
I can't think of rewards much outside of the human population, maybe I'm a bit dim right now, or I'm thinking more about the [i]idea[/i] of the concept of rewards being around longer than humans, which couldn't be possible, if the idea is relative to our understanding, if you catch my drift.
well, i want to get this discussion back on track, so let me state my view here.
it is irrational to believe a god exists. if base the concept of someone being sensible, on them being rational, then no, being a sensible Christian is not possible.
[QUOTE=Azurionas;24307746]Yeah, it is a stretch. It's honestly kind of asking for trolling/flamewars that way.[/QUOTE]
Why are you removing the post numbers from your quotes... They make the "Posted by..." link to that post.
[quote=Kybalt]
[quote=Azurionas]
I think I remember Dr. Freeman being a source of a lot of trouble.
[/quote]
Also, cannot get enough of this damn quote system. It is pretty awesome.
did you like just get here. you joined in december 09...
[/quote]
I'm a lurker :L have been since '08, I believe. Never had the guts to post. Got started in the Homestuck thread (epic raps in there) and I've tried to post more often in general.
[QUOTE=Azurionas;24307773]I'm a lurker :L have been since '08, I believe. Never had the guts to post. Got started in the Homestuck thread (epic raps in there) and I've tried to post more often in general.[/QUOTE]
ah, see, i started posting in like, early 07.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;24307768]well, i want to get this discussion back on track, so let me state my view here.
it is irrational to believe a god exists. if base the concept of someone being sensible, on them being rational, then no, being a sensible Christian is not possible.[/QUOTE]
This was settling down to be a good thread ending, until that post.
If you read much of the earlier stuff, you'd know by now that's entirely relative, and your statement is completely relative to a non-religious individual.
You act as if you've never interacted with a nice religious person. I'm sure much of your elders would be displeased in your statement.
[QUOTE=Bobv2;24307672]I never meant that. I'm just saying, if you want to discuss something, you'd better be prepared to defend what you have to say. I'm not for discussion turning into fights, but it's kind of aggravating to be accused of advocating thought control and being some sort of thought Nazi when all I'm trying to do is understand.
I'm just saying, if you want me to not question your beliefs, don't ask me to question your beliefs.[/QUOTE]
I may have misunderstood your original post.
Question away, and I will try to answer as best as I can.
I will not accuse you of being closed minded.
[QUOTE=Azurionas;24307773]I'm a lurker [b]:L[/b] have been since '08, I believe. Never had the guts to post. Got started in the Homestuck thread (epic raps in there) and I've tried to post more often in general.[/QUOTE]
we have a pretty cool list of emotes here...
[url]http://www.facepunch.com/misc.php[/url]
and many people here dont take well to :) or D: and such... :smile:
[QUOTE=amcwatters;24307762]I can't think of rewards much outside of the human population, maybe I'm a bit dim right now, or I'm thinking more about the [I]idea[/I] of the concept of rewards being around longer than humans, which couldn't be possible, if the idea is relative to our understanding, if you catch my drift.[/QUOTE]
The idea is yes, but I am talking about a physical reward. If you give a dog a treat after tapping his hind quarters and saying sit a few times, eventually he will learn that if he sits he will get a reward. In the case of the dog the reward is food and not starving, in the case of a human you can give them the reward of eternal life after dying in the name of their god and they will have little to no qualms about doing so.
This is really really really basic psychology at work, it works best though when children are told about this by their parents or an adult authority figure.
[quote=Elecbullet]Why are you removing the post numbers from your quotes... They make the "Posted by..." link to that post.[/quote]
Because I don't know how :frog: just learned how to quote, still not really sure how it works.
I'm kinda retarded when it comes to code, which is sad because I want to make a career out of game programming.
also Kybalt, I knew about the smilies :smile: I've actually implemented a few into MSN. But by nature, I still tend to use them. Like the :L face, for example. There's nothing on the smilies list for that, that's just something of mine.
[QUOTE=Azurionas;24307825]Because I don't know how :frog: just learned how to quote, still not really sure how it works.
I'm kinda retarded when it comes to code, which is sad because I want to make a career out of game programming.[/QUOTE]
You don't have to use code, just hit the "reply" button in the corner of the post you're replying to.
[QUOTE=amcwatters;24307795]This was settling down to be a good thread ending, until that post.
If you read much of the earlier stuff, you'd know by now that's entirely relative, and your statement is completely relative to a non-religious individual.
[b]You act as if you've never interacted with a nice religious person. I'm sure much of your elders would be displeased in your statement.[/b][/QUOTE]
first off, my elders, have nothing to do with this. second, nice or not nice has nothing to do with this either. i'm simply making a statement that you can't believe in a god, and claim that to be a rational decision.
[QUOTE=Kybalt;24307840]first off, my elders, have nothing to do with this. second, nice or not nice has nothing to do with this either. i'm simply making a statement that you can't believe in a god, and claim that to be a rational decision.[/QUOTE]
What's not rational about it?
[QUOTE=Kybalt;24307840]first off, my elders, have nothing to do with this. second, nice or not nice has nothing to do with this either. i'm simply making a statement that you can't believe in a god, and claim that to be a rational decision.[/QUOTE]
Sensible isn't rational.
[editline]10:32PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=1STrandomman;24307853]What's not rational about it?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kybalt;24307840]first off, my elders, have nothing to do with this. second, nice or not nice has nothing to do with this either. i'm simply making a statement that you can't believe in a god, and claim that to be a [B]rational decision.[/B][/QUOTE]
And so it begins.
[QUOTE=1STrandomman;24307837]You don't have to use code, just hit the "reply" button in the corner of the post you're replying to.[/QUOTE]
This is beautiful! Thank you.
No it is not possible to be a sensible Christian. Anyone who wheres the title Christain is a raciest, sexist, homophobic asshole, and anyone who denies any of that is not a real christian because they do not follow the bible. I would say less then 1 percent of the population preach the real bible. Like it or not the Westburo baptist church actually preach just whats in the bible, that's what makes it even sicker and funny. I see them as hero's for what they are doing. They are exposing the bible for what it really is.
Now a christian will tell you that god was different in the OT but this says different
"God is unchangeable. His counsel, nature, motivations, agenda, purpose and character are always the same."
[B]Malachi 3:6[/B] I the LORD do not change.
So then do you really want to follow a book that preaches things as below?
"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. ([URL="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Sa/1Sa015.html#top"]I Samuel 15:2-3[/URL])
"Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." ([URL="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Num/Num031.html#16"]Numbers 31:16-18[/URL])
[QUOTE=superdinoman;24307811]The idea is yes, but I am talking about a physical reward. If you give a dog a treat after tapping his hind quarters and saying sit a few times, eventually he will learn that if he sits he will get a reward. In the case of the dog the reward is food and not starving, in the case of a human you can give them the reward of eternal life after dying in the name of their god and they will have little to no qualms about doing so.
This is really really really basic psychology at work, it works best though when children are told about this by their parents or an adult authority figure.[/QUOTE]
I believe anyone wanting to further research this should look into "Pavlov's Dogs". Correct me if I'm wrong.
[QUOTE=Mudbone;24307898]No it is not possible to be a sensible Christian. Anyone who wheres the title Christain is a raciest, sexist, homophobic asshole, and anyone who denies any of that is not a real christian because they do not follow the bible. I would say less then 1 percent of the population preach the real bible. Like it or not christian the Westburo baptist church actually preach just whats in the bible, that's what makes it even sicker and funny. I see them as hero's for what they are doing. They are exposing the bible for what it really is.
Now a christian will tell you that god was different in the OT but this says different
"God is unchangeable. His counsel, nature, motivations, agenda, purpose and character are always the same."
[FONT=CiteMarker][COLOR=Navy][B]Malachi 3:6[/B][/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=BibleText][COLOR=Navy]I the LORD do not change.[/COLOR][/FONT]
So then do you really want to follow a book that preaches things as below?
"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. ([URL="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Sa/1Sa015.html#top"]I Samuel 15:2-3[/URL])[/QUOTE]
What a surprise, someone else who didn't read the OP... If you don't feel like reading the other pages, we were kind of trying to establish whether or not the Bible was divinely inspired, and how it's just a collection of books.
Better yet, the more recent pages were discussions on some elemental theories about the nature of man, if you'd like to join.
I won't ask you to leave, that would be naive, but please at least make an effort not to stir up dissent.
[QUOTE=thirty9th;24307703]I'm asking you, by all means, to question my beliefs.
And, for the third time, I apologize for misunderstanding your point, if that's what you're referring to by the 'thought control' part.[/QUOTE]
However, that's what this all boils down to. You have faith that there is a God. I guarantee that this has to do with something abstract, not logical. That's the thing, human beings have a knack of turning abstract things into real actions. It's not rational inquiry that led you to believe this, it's a philosophical question. I'm beginning to think that this is what it's all about. You see, with things like abortion and the like, opinions are based on logical thinking and certain facts. The question remains, what need is there to believe in a God? Why did you think I was being some sort of thought Nazi when I was pointing out the flaws? Why selectively believe certain scriptures over the others? When you try to discuss something like this, that's what it really boils down to. It's a pretty deep question, and being accused of being closed minded seems like a straw man for another motive.
So really the motive of this thread seems less to me as a "let's discuss our beliefs" and more of a discussion of "why can't you just accept me for my beliefs?" thread. In all honesty, I can. I do it all the time. I know religious people and we get along just fine in mutual acceptance. But when you go "let's discuss" and I do and then you turn around and then suggest I'm closed minded for questioning your beliefs, it's just frustrating and confusing. There's a time and place for simple acceptance, but this isn't one of them.
Also, that rant was directed more to the guy calling me names.
[QUOTE=amcwatters;24307556]I'm a Christian, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_life]live in America[/url], but I still don't believe in right to life or human rights. No where are we declared rights in life as much as humanity likes to say we have human rights, which are all self-declared.
I don't know anywhere in the Bible where it's stated we have the right to live, as far as I understand in Christianity - it's a privilege. If I'm incorrect or uninformed, I'm fine and grateful if someone can correct me otherwise.[/QUOTE]For what reasons should the concept of human rights be revoked or done away with?
[QUOTE=Mudbone;24307898]No it is not possible to be a sensible Christian. Anyone who wheres the title Christain is a raciest, sexist, homophobic asshole, and anyone who denies any of that is not a real christian because they do not follow the bible. I would say less then 1 percent of the population preach the real bible. Like it or not the Westburo baptist church actually preach just whats in the bible, that's what makes it even sicker and funny. I see them as hero's for what they are doing. They are exposing the bible for what it really is.
Now a christian will tell you that god was different in the OT but this says different
"God is unchangeable. His counsel, nature, motivations, agenda, purpose and character are always the same."
[B]Malachi 3:6[/B] I the LORD do not change.
So then do you really want to follow a book that preaches things as below?
"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. ([URL="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Sa/1Sa015.html#top"]I Samuel 15:2-3[/URL])[/QUOTE]
lol, you don't know anything about the bible at all. You know less than I do, and that's very little.
You're most likely pulling these from the Internet, because you've never read the Bible before, and couldn't name lightly where things were spoken of.
[QUOTE=amcwatters;24307859]Sensible isn't rational.
[editline]10:32PM[/editline][/QUOTE]
then why are you replying to me. i said,
"[b]if you base the concept of someone being sensible, on them being rational,[/b] then no, being a sensible Christian is not possible."
[editline]01:40AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=1STrandomman;24307853]What's not rational about it?[/QUOTE]
given that, rational is a synonym for logical, they are believing in something without evidence to support it. this is illogical.
[QUOTE=Mudbone;24307898]No it is not possible to be a sensible Christian. Anyone who wheres the title Christian is a raciest, sexist, homophobic asshole, and anyone who denies any of that is not a real christian because they do not follow the bible. I would say less then 1 percent of the population preach the real bible. Like it or not christian the Westboro baptist church actually preach just whats in the bible, that's what makes it even sicker and funny. I see them as hero's for what they are doing. They are exposing the bible for what it really is.
Now a christian will tell you that god was different in the OT but this says different
"God is unchangeable. His counsel, nature, motivations, agenda, purpose and character are always the same."
[B]Malachi 3:6[/B] I the LORD do not change.
So then do you really want to follow a book that preaches things as below?
"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. ([URL="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/1Sa/1Sa015.html#top"]I Samuel 15:2-3[/URL])[/QUOTE]
I think that's a bit generalizing. What defines 'real' followers of any religion? Isn't the name for it, simply that- a name? Can't one follow parts of the Bible, as many have admitted (and I would call them Christians if they accept the title) there are parts of the Bible that are to be treated with a grain of salt, and thus still be considered Christians? Is the name not for those who follow the same general beliefs, and from there have their own personal takes and opinions on such?
[QUOTE=thirty9th;24307901]I believe anyone wanting to further research this should look into "Pavlov's Dogs". Correct me if I'm wrong.[/QUOTE]
Basically a physical stimuli gives rise to a subconscious feed to whatever specific part of the brain was triggered from past occurrences in a similar situation, so in a way you are sort of right.
[QUOTE=amcwatters;24307935]lol, you don't know anything about the bible at all. You know less than I do, and that's very little.
You're most likely pulling these from the Internet, because you've never read the Bible before, and couldn't name lightly where things were spoken of.[/QUOTE]
I'm fairly knowledge in the bible, Its history and early church history. However I'm not going to pull one up dig through the pages and type out what I can copy and paste. Instead of you just bashing how about you explain what was wrong with what I said? or can you?
[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;24307931]For what reasons should the concept of human rights be revoked or done away with?[/QUOTE]
I think the intentions of human rights ideals and laws are great, they work towards fantastic things, but I'm saying we don't have rights, not that they should be done away with.
Hey guys it was nice to pretend to participate but I'm tired and going to bed now, good night.
Good night all, I hope none of your opinions have changed by morning.
[editline]12:43AM[/editline]
[img]http://www.facepunch.com/image.php?u=259068&dateline=1266814267[/img]:hf:[img]http://www.facepunch.com/image.php?u=126341&dateline=1275786074[/img]
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