• Hypothetical: Radical Opposites: Living in Communist vs. Fascist Society
    288 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Miskatonic;25990235]Does that same argument apply to nomadic people, Indians, and tribesmen? Does it apply to people of eastern descent that live in collectivist cultures? Greed was introduced with the advent of capital (i.e. :10bux:).[/QUOTE] Quite right.
[QUOTE=Fippe;25990168]seems like a lot of you are missing on some info here Soviet Russia was stalinist, not communist. They were fascists. Nazis were fascists. Fascism is left-wing.[/QUOTE] You're right, it's not right to use the word fascism to refer to extreme right-wing political views only, but it's been established that way...
I don't get why these hypothetical question threads are being rated as dumb,. it's just a poll to get people thinking, jesus christ.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;25983294]Radical right any day. I'm you're average straight white guy so race or anything wouldn't be a problem and I believe you should make your income based on your job, not on what everyone elses income is. Plus you couldn't live in a Communist nation if you wanted to because like history shows, it would never get past the dictator stage. Radical racism/anti-semitism has been shown from both sides anyways.[/QUOTE] This.
[QUOTE=Lonestriper;25989913]Can I have a fascist communist dictatorship? [editline]11th November 2010[/editline] If not, perhaps a socialist/capitalist society.[/QUOTE] Yea its called a mixed economy, your almost definetley living in one. [editline]14th November 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Miskatonic;25990174]How about instead of saying that it will or will not work, give a brief explanation as to why you think that. :downs:[/QUOTE] the critical flaw of communism is greed, you can never have an equal society because value comes with money mostly, for example a doctor will have no motivation to work because he gets payed the same as a farmer, so why should he bother dealing with the stress of having someones life on his hands if he can just plant corn for the same pay and with more ease? (but i know this has been discussied but i have emphasis it more.)
Hmm. If we're talking about the [i]ideal[/i] version of both, then: 1. Fascism glorifies in national identity, war, and totalitarianism 2. Communism glorifies in communal identity, no private property, and stuff done for the good of the collective Hm. Can't really choose between those two. Communism would probably be better for a larger number of people, in an ideal world. Fascism relies on war as a way of strengthening the nation. ...I'd err on the side of communism. Now, the reality of such versions: 1. Fascism. War, genocide/wide-ranging murder of those who disagree with the state, totalitarianism 2. Communism. War (again!) Corruption, totalitarianism. Both really suck in real-life, to be honest. I wouldn't really want to choose. Now, the [i]stereotypical[/i] versions: 1. Fascism: Nazis. Marching and large bands. Jodhpurs, lots of black and grey. Eagles, aryans and racial hatred. Toothbrush moustaches. 2. Communism: Eastern-Europeans. "Commies". Fur hats, red stars and vodka. Enthusiasm mixed with pessimism. Big moustaches. [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IU49Y81EvYM]The Red Army Choir[/url]. Easy choice here. If I had to live in the stereotypical version, then it would be communism. Beards, kalashnikovs and vodka for everyone!
Communism can't work because people can still say "I'm going to run my own business!" until the cops come in and beat you to death with sickles and hammers. Also, China is a sausage fest thanks to the Communists. In a fascist society, maybe those people would learn to get off their asses and make their own money instead of waiting for the government to pay them all the same. I mean, you can't just pay every job the exact same wage - That means the same for flipping a burger at McDonald's or finding the Higgs Boson. It's just a fact of life that not everyone's role is of the same importance.
the problem with fascism is that you always need some greater evil to unite the country against. jews, commies, gypsies, the rest of europe. the problem with communism is that some people just like to own stuff. democratic socialism master race.
Indeed. I'm glad I live in a Democratic country with a nice blend of Capitalism and Socialism. Enough capitalism to let people have nice things, whilst having enough socialism to stop life sucking for too many people.
Communist. In the very long term, it should be the goal of society to reach true communism. Obviously it can never happen quickly otherwise it's simply too prone to corruption, but a VERY gradual set in (I mean centuries probably) where people are gradually educated to a state of non-cuntery then perhaps it can work, and also gradual removal of the cultural desire to own everything and win everything. Past/current 'communist' countries have been far from it due to the means of introduction. Also to make it clear, in a true communist society everybody is not paid the same, there is simply no need for currency - work is for the mutual benefit of all people rather than a reward in tokens of trade. "But there's no place for creativity in communism!!11"? As Charles Dickins once said "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burden of it to anyone else." A stupid proportion of anti-communist people simply haven't a fucking clue what it actually is, and 'The USSR' isn't what it is. I'm looking at you, America.
True super-right wing politics would be more akin to anarchism rather than fascism.
I would definitely go with communism.
Facist, they has a reason why they were doing it. Soviet didn't, they just wanted to have power and russians suck at constructive critism. [editline]14th November 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=cheesedelux;26045202]Communist. In the very long term, it should be the goal of society to reach true communism. Obviously it can never happen quickly otherwise it's simply too prone to corruption, but a VERY gradual set in (I mean centuries probably) where people are gradually educated to a state of non-cuntery then perhaps it can work, and also gradual removal of the cultural desire to own everything and win everything. Past/current 'communist' countries have been far from it due to the means of introduction. Also to make it clear, in a true communist society everybody is not paid the same, there is simply no need for currency - work is for the mutual benefit of all people rather than a reward in tokens of trade. "But there's no place for creativity in communism!!11"? As Charles Dickins once said "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burden of it to anyone else." A stupid proportion of anti-communist people simply haven't a fucking clue what it actually is, and 'The USSR' isn't what it is. I'm looking at you, America.[/QUOTE] My dad was in soviet union, as a soldier also. Its very awfull and bad there he wanted to leave and he did. (But if he did and lost) He would be in jail. [editline]14th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ghost656;26049688]Facist, they has a reason why they were doing it. Soviet didn't, they just wanted to have power and russians suck at constructive critism. [editline]14th November 2010[/editline] My dad was in soviet union, as a soldier also. Its very awfull and bad there he wanted to leave and he did. (But if he did and lost) He would be in jail. [editline]14th November 2010[/editline][/QUOTE] What? Everyone has varying opinions. What your dad went through isn't analogous to the soviet union as a whole.
id rader be a communist den a fascist
Totalitarianism: because free will gets in the way of progress
This thread is so god damn stupid, and i don't just mean the OP
[QUOTE=Miskatonic;26049727]What? Everyone has varying opinions. What your dad went through isn't analogous to the soviet union as a whole.[/QUOTE] Communism implemented in soviet union was a failure as a whole... That's a fact.
[QUOTE=Miskatonic;25990235]Does that same argument apply to nomadic people, Indians, and tribesmen? Does it apply to people of eastern descent that live in collectivist cultures? Greed was introduced with the advent of capital (i.e. :10bux:).[/QUOTE] Yes because you know so much about those cultures... greed is inherent to the human condition because our emotions are always complemented by the opposite. You cannot have selfless behaviour without the ability to be selfish. To be able to love you also have to be able to hate. So those cultures faced as much greed as they did face selfless behaviour. P.S greed is ridiculously vague term
[QUOTE=Miskatonic;25990235]Does that same argument apply to nomadic people, Indians, and tribesmen? Does it apply to people of eastern descent that live in collectivist cultures? Greed was introduced with the advent of capital (i.e. :10bux:).[/QUOTE] Nope, greed existed beyond the invention of currency. [editline]14th November 2010[/editline] I sometimes relised if the soviet union still existed these communist supporters on Facepunch wouldn't criticize it but would actually have a favorable view of it's actions. [editline]14th November 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Miskatonic;25986870]Capitalism is closer to fascism and "evil".[/QUOTE] If Fascism was closer to capitalism, how come every how come the German government made sure every German had a car from the government rather than working to buy one.` [img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Nazi_Volkswagen.jpg[/img] [QUOTE=Miskatonic;25986870]Once a country reaches super power status it cannot sustain itself without fucking another country up. This is called imperialism. It's done either by direct occupation of another country or by fucking it up even more royally by indebting it and enslaving the people into decades of poverty.[/QUOTE] [img]http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/053/602/original/1274276378738.jpg?1276096889[/img]
[QUOTE=s0beit;26050304]This thread is so god damn stupid, and i don't just mean the OP[/QUOTE] Ironic considering you haven't made any threads of your own, claim to be a libertarian but say: "Send everyone who smokes to labor camps fuckers deserve it"
Fascism.
Communism =/= everyone gets paid the same For a start no one gets paid because in communism there is no money, the good are simply distributed [b]fairly[/b] this doesn't mean everyone gets the same, for example the man who is larger and can get more stuff done gets more food because he needs it to continue to get more stuff done. The guy who is disabled gets whatever he needs to live a fulfilling life. The person who lazes about and does nothing (without a good reason) gets the bare minimum to survive.
[QUOTE=Kingy_who;26080471]Communism =/= everyone gets paid the same For a start no one gets paid because in communism there is no money, the good are simply distributed [b]fairly[/b] this doesn't mean everyone gets the same, for example the man who is larger and can get more stuff done gets more food because he needs it to continue to get more stuff done. The guy who is disabled gets whatever he needs to live a fulfilling life. The person who lazes about and does nothing (without a good reason) gets the bare minimum to survive.[/QUOTE] Finally, someone clears it up.
[QUOTE=Kingy_who;26080471]Communism =/= everyone gets paid the same For a start no one gets paid because in communism there is no money, the good are simply distributed [b]fairly[/b] this doesn't mean everyone gets the same, for example the man who is larger and can get more stuff done gets more food because he needs it to continue to get more stuff done. The guy who is disabled gets whatever he needs to live a fulfilling life. The person who lazes about and does nothing (without a good reason) gets the bare minimum to survive.[/QUOTE] Wait isn't this basically capitalism without money and everyone gets the bare minimum?
Wouldn't the furthest right you can go be anarchy?
Not really. There is an up and down to the political scale as well, Anarchy being at the lowest, and authoritarian at the top
[QUOTE=Earthen;26082522]Wait isn't this basically capitalism without money and everyone gets the bare minimum?[/QUOTE] No, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" meaning ability and need are inseparable when referring to "gain". This means if you are capable of doing work you will get more to survive than someone who is capable of doing work and doesn't do so. It's either work and get more than the lazy fucker or be the lazy fucker and get the bare minimum to survive. Communism is rooted in the idea that the government owns business rather than business own government. Communist society it based on these main principles to drive society, money is a big motivator you cannot deny it. Studies have shown than when people perform manual labour the more they are paid the better they preform. But when we apply this to jobs that require only rudimentary cognitive skill and creativity the opposite happens. It actually gets worse, people have wondered why this happens? and it has been reiterated over and over again and the same picture is shown. So here they are. It so happens that when you include Mastery, Autonomy and Purpose into a society intelligent thinking becomes much more apparent. If you take money out of the image it demonstrably fails. You need enough money to take the idea of money off the table which therefore stops the person worrying about the amount of money they require. I am not one to think that communism will work, when implemented into today's society it utterly fails. This is because of corruption, dictatorship and power. Communism would only work if you have a awesome dictator someone who actually cared about society and not their own gain which unfortunately is what every communist leader has shown, Communism puts all power into the government and if abused and take all of the pieces with it and create a form of authoritarian society rather than liberalization. Secondly you will need a form of automated labour, when we have robots to do work for us. We will not have to worry about the labour theory of value as robots would not require payment but only power. This then in return would only result in higher intelligence rates as we would no longer need stupid people to do stupid people work in affect. Expanding on my point earlier about rudementary cognitive skill we would see a paradigm shift in our society. This is why Marx and many other communists think capitalism will eventually destroy itself. There is much confusion on what Marx wrote only a small fraction of his work was based upon communism. I put it as simply as I could there may be a few points I missed out. But that is my explanation on communism, If there are any flaws I will edit them tomorrow I need to goto bed. I suggest you watch these videos and educate yourselves on these principles [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e8rt8RGjCM&playnext=1&list=PLBA03FF87BCD7F952&index=39[/media] enjoy ;D
[QUOTE=cheesedelux;26045202]Communist. In the very long term, it should be the goal of society to reach true communism. Obviously it can never happen quickly otherwise it's simply too prone to corruption, but a VERY gradual set in (I mean centuries probably) where people are gradually educated to a state of non-cuntery then perhaps it can work, and also gradual removal of the cultural desire to own everything and win everything. Past/current 'communist' countries have been far from it due to the means of introduction. Also to make it clear, in a true communist society everybody is not paid the same, there is simply no need for currency - work is for the mutual benefit of all people rather than a reward in tokens of trade. "But there's no place for creativity in communism!!11"? As Charles Dickins once said "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burden of it to anyone else." A stupid proportion of anti-communist people simply haven't a fucking clue what it actually is, and 'The USSR' isn't what it is. I'm looking at you, America.[/QUOTE] Even without the equal pay thing there's always the issue of people having no reason to succeed. I mean, why go through the education and training of being a doctor when you can get an easy job that requires no skill and still come out equal to everyone else? We SHOULD do things just for the good of doing them but most people just don't work that way.
[QUOTE=John the Gr8;26051554]Communism implemented in soviet union was a failure as a whole... That's a fact.[/QUOTE] Again, no explanation. You're being too vague. How and why did it fail? [editline]15th November 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Meller Yeller;26089095]Even without the equal pay thing there's always the issue of people having no reason to succeed. I mean, why go through the education and training of being a doctor when you can get an easy job that requires no skill and still come out equal to everyone else? We SHOULD do things just for the good of doing them but most people just don't work that way.[/QUOTE] If you don't want to work, you'll simply receive less.
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