• Hypothetical: Radical Opposites: Living in Communist vs. Fascist Society
    288 replies, posted
I've taken many political, economic and history classes throughout high school and need no clarification as to what commuism or fascism are. It didnt cross my mind that I'd have to create a fucking picture book for facepunch to understand this. Thankfully there are a few people who even know more than I do. I took a lot less interest in Soviet politics when Lenin wasn't in the hot seat.
[QUOTE=That_Crazy_Gman;26096361] Um... you really believe that? or are you defending your dated Ideas of facism? [/QUOTE] well if i were i probably wouldn't call facists stupid people [I](but i called commies stupid so i [B]so[/B] have to be wearing an SS-cap and leaderhosen and gassing jews since i dislike a system that works only in a very idealistic mind) [/I] and i do believe that extremists in both ends are stupid people, only people worse than those skinhead wannabe-"fascists" beating up people are those wannabe-antifacist "communists" beating up people / throwing stones or molotovs. the closer we get to the center of political spectrum, the less holocausts/gulags happen, and people living are happier, and the governments seem to last longer. [I] "but boohoo evilking that isn't communism, communism is perfect that was stalinism you described"[/I] yeah yeah and fascism can be perfect as everybody just assimilates to the society and everybody gives up to fascism and everybody is one big global fascist party and they all eat cake and live happy everafter and by stupid i mean believing in those naivistic thoughts of communism/facism actually working in the long run
[QUOTE=skifer;26087445]No, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" meaning ability and need are inseparable when referring to "gain". This means if you are capable of doing work you will get more to survive than someone who is capable of doing work and doesn't do so. It's either work and get more than the lazy fucker or be the lazy fucker and get the bare minimum to survive. Communism is rooted in the idea that the government owns business rather than business own government. Communist society it based on these main principles to drive society, money is a big motivator you cannot deny it. Studies have shown than when people perform manual labour the more they are paid the better they preform. But when we apply this to jobs that require only rudimentary cognitive skill and creativity the opposite happens. It actually gets worse, people have wondered why this happens? and it has been reiterated over and over again and the same picture is shown. So here they are. It so happens that when you include Mastery, Autonomy and Purpose into a society intelligent thinking becomes much more apparent. If you take money out of the image it demonstrably fails. You need enough money to take the idea of money off the table which therefore stops the person worrying about the amount of money they require. I am not one to think that communism will work, when implemented into today's society it utterly fails. This is because of corruption, dictatorship and power. Communism would only work if you have a awesome dictator someone who actually cared about society and not their own gain which unfortunately is what every communist leader has shown, Communism puts all power into the government and if abused and take all of the pieces with it and create a form of authoritarian society rather than liberalization. Secondly you will need a form of automated labour, when we have robots to do work for us. We will not have to worry about the labour theory of value as robots would not require payment but only power. This then in return would only result in higher intelligence rates as we would no longer need stupid people to do stupid people work in affect. Expanding on my point earlier about rudementary cognitive skill we would see a paradigm shift in our society. This is why Marx and many other communists think capitalism will eventually destroy itself. There is much confusion on what Marx wrote only a small fraction of his work was based upon communism. I put it as simply as I could there may be a few points I missed out. But that is my explanation on communism, If there are any flaws I will edit them tomorrow I need to goto bed. I suggest you watch these videos and educate yourselves on these principles [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e8rt8RGjCM&playnext=1&list=PLBA03FF87BCD7F952&index=39[/media] enjoy ;D[/QUOTE] Don't worry, conscript and that other guy bitched at me enough, I just felt like starting a nice little fight.
[QUOTE=Miskatonic;26090205]The first world has fucked over the third world, ie. through monetary policies. Not to mention wars of conquest and for resources.[/QUOTE] We sure did. That doesn't mean the USSR isn't a failed state.
[QUOTE=Miskatonic;26049727]What? Everyone has varying opinions. What your dad went through isn't analogous to the soviet union as a whole.[/QUOTE] They make opinions without thinking, rate dumb because its related to "Not thinking" [editline]16th November 2010[/editline] Also i would choose none actually, but i think facist makes more sense then USSR
[QUOTE=TH89;26098012]We sure did. That doesn't mean the USSR isn't a failed state.[/QUOTE] It was a failed state because it [b]wasn't[/b] communist. Communism is hard to achieve, and has never been achieved anywhere, this is it's main flaw. There have been plenty of pseudo communist states, that where communist by name only, but were really fascist. The question was whether I'd rather live in a communist or a fascist state, seeing as all the times communism has failed, it has become similar to fascism, then I'd chose communism.
How you can consider the soviet union anything but a failed state, it's a fact not an opinion that the soviet union ceased to function in '91
It is also fact not opinion that the Soviet Union, although ceasing to function in '91, went from 3rd world to world superpower in the matter of 50 years-- starvation and oppression aside.
With Fascism, there would be no freedom. With Communism, there would be greed, and lots of it.
At least communism has good intentions :saddowns:
[QUOTE=KillerPopcorn;26098514]With Fascism, there would be no freedom. With Communism, there would be greed, and lots of it.[/QUOTE] I'd say it'd be the opposite. As in, Greed in Fascism.
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26098486]It is also fact not opinion that the Soviet Union, although ceasing to function in '91, went from 3rd world to world superpower in the matter of 50 years-- starvation and oppression aside.[/QUOTE] I don't disagree with that, though that hardly takes away from the point that it ultimately collapsed.
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26098486]It is also fact not opinion that the Soviet Union, although ceasing to function in '91, went from 3rd world to world superpower in the matter of 50 years-- starvation and oppression aside.[/QUOTE] So did USA.
[QUOTE=evilking1;26098567]So did USA.[/QUOTE] No they didn't
And germany did pretty well in the first years of the third reich
[QUOTE=evilking1;26098567]So did USA.[/QUOTE] Except they weren't third world at the beginning of the 50 year period, were they,
[QUOTE=O'10er;26098581]No they didn't[/QUOTE] USA in the early 1900's wouldn't be something I'd call a "superpower" [editline]16th November 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=MovingSalad;26098589]Except they weren't third world at the beginning of the 50 year period, were they,[/QUOTE] Well, neither were they still a 3rd world country at the end of that 50 year period
[QUOTE=evilking1;26098593]USA in the early 1900's wouldn't be something I'd call a "superpower" [/QUOTE] I wouldn't call it a third world country either.
[QUOTE=evilking1;26098593]USA in the early 1900's wouldn't be something I'd call a "superpower" [/QUOTE] You're the one talking about the USA. We never said it was a superpower. It certainly wasn't third world like how shitty things were going in Russia. [QUOTE=evilking1;26098593] Well, neither were they still a 3rd world country at the end of that 50 year period[/QUOTE] What the fuck are you talking about? No of course not. Nobody was saying that. Learn to fucking type, or go pick up a book and read some history, politics, and economics please-- because either you don't know a stitch about what you're talking about, or you've got the linguistic capacity of a shit eating toddler.
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26098736] [QUOTE=MovingSalad;26098736] What the fuck are you talking about? No of course not. Nobody was saying that. Learn to fucking type, or go pick up a book and read some history, politics, and economics please-- because either you don't know a stitch about what you're talking about, or you've got the linguistic capacity of a shit eating toddler.[/QUOTE] u mad? i meant ussr being a 3rd world country after the 50 years unlike usa, but u mad!
[QUOTE=evilking][QUOTE=MovingSalad;26098736] u mad?[/QUOTE] That really makes you look intelligent.
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26100854] That really makes you look intelligent.[/QUOTE] but man you were mad
Stop flaming each other, we are fellow brothers living on this planet. At the end of the day, we wish for the same thing, helping our fellow man, but differ significantly in our proposed method for doing so. Rather than insult and fight one another and call this vicious text war 'debate', we should start the argument by embracing the fact that at the very core of the debate, both sides are arguing over the better path for humanity. We are not enemies, we are friends with different opinions. Why not debate like friends, rather than fight like petty enemies?
Stop bitching around, jesus, that's not how you debate.
[QUOTE=Miskatonic;26101126]Stop bitching around, jesus, that's not how you debate.[/QUOTE] Debating doesn't work if the other person doesn't know how to read and write, sorry.
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26101144]Debating doesn't work if the other person doesn't know how to read and write, sorry.[/QUOTE] Debating doesn't work if you use insults on the other fellow
Workers of the world unite! Communism was good idea but the human greed is what made it so crap.
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26101144]Debating doesn't work if the other person doesn't know how to read and write, sorry.[/QUOTE] Or know anything of what they're arguing against aside from little tidbits of information.
[QUOTE=Miskatonic;26101174]Or know anything of what they're arguing against aside from little tidbits of information.[/QUOTE] Exactly my reasoning for flaming him in the fitst place. I kind of did it out of sick enjoyment rather than anything. Like who doesn't want to say: you've got the linguistic capacity of a shit eating toddler."
[QUOTE=ripsipiirakk;26101168]Workers of the world unite! Communism was good idea but the human greed is what made it so crap.[/QUOTE] Many people fail to realize that sadly.
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