Hypothetical: Radical Opposites: Living in Communist vs. Fascist Society
288 replies, posted
[QUOTE=ripsipiirakk;26101168]Workers of the world unite!
Communism was good idea but the human greed is what made it so crap.[/QUOTE]
This is the truth.
There aren't communistic countries, there never were any. I can create a party and call it whatever I want but it doesn't change what it does.
Let's take USSR for an example: They had single party, "Communist Party". In true communism, there would be no government, no parties, nothing. It'd be ideal situation of everyone gets the same rights.
What USSR was, was a fascist state with state owning everything. Nazi Germany allowed private property to some extent.
[editline]16th November 2010[/editline]
So technically Nazi Germany was more left-wing than USSR.
I'd only like to live in a fascist society if I was in charge, so I'm going to have to swing left. That is assuming my government isn't corrupt.
I don't know why I keep reading this thread so often, a lot of people seem to just be saying one or the other without evidence. Why people would want Fascism is beyond me, its very core ideas are based on absolute authority and indifference to total war and if that 'absolute' is something you'd choose over true communism then you'd better waltz on back to Nineteen Eighty Four and give a big wet kiss to the Thought Police.
[QUOTE=sloppy_joes;26090908]All empires/countries eventually result in failure.
[editline]15th November 2010[/editline]
I'm in university for engineering, I can safely say people don't get graduate degrees and help the world for fame.
People who truly want to help the world, will help the world.[/QUOTE]
Most people aren't going to choose to be an engineer or doctor in a country where they are either paid the same as everyone else or nothing at all when there are capitalist countries that actually pay you for what you deserve based on what you do.
This is why countries that have tried this approach have had to actually use force to keep people in because they knew there was no reason for them to want to stay.
Yes there are people who will do what they do to help the world but they are fewer and farther between. Besides, if you moved to a captitalist country, you would still be helping the same way but also get paid well and actually have the funding to make new advancements. Communism in even its purest form is too flawed for reality.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;26102563]Most people aren't going to choose to be an engineer or doctor in a country where they are either paid the same as everyone else or nothing at all when there are capitalist countries that actually pay you for what you deserve based on what you do.
This is why countries that have tried this approach have had to actually use force to keep people in because they knew there was no reason for them to want to stay.
Yes there are people who will do what they do to help the world but they are fewer and farther between. Besides, if you moved to a captitalist country, you would still be helping the same way but also get paid well and actually have the funding to make new advancements. Communism in even its purest form is too flawed for reality.[/QUOTE]
Did you read my post, there are incentives for working hard, i.e. the person who does the most work gets the most. If you could be a doctor, would you rather be a doctor or a farm labourer, if the pay was the same? I'm sure the potential doctor would like to be a doctor rather than a labourer.
[QUOTE=MovingSalad;26101260]Exactly my reasoning for flaming him in the fitst place. I kind of did it out of sick enjoyment rather than anything. Like who doesn't want to say: you've got the linguistic capacity of a shit eating toddler."[/QUOTE]
people who aren't mad
[QUOTE=Kingy_who;26103327]Did you read my post, there are incentives for working hard, i.e. the person who does the most work gets the most. If you could be a doctor, would you rather be a doctor or a farm labourer, if the pay was the same? I'm sure the potential doctor would like to be a doctor rather than a labourer.[/QUOTE]
I thought they only got what they needed, so whoever worked the hardest only got enough food to keep him working? Doesn't sound like a good incentive to me.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;25955127]Is there one that is between them? Like not so Communist but not so Fascist either?[/QUOTE]
anarchy
[QUOTE=evilking1;26096893]
[I](but i called commies stupid so i [B]so[/B] have to be wearing an SS-cap and leaderhosen and gassing jews since i dislike a system that works only in a very idealistic mind)
[/I]
[/QUOTE]
When the fuck did I say any of that shit? I'm just saying Facism is a tried and failed type of government that fails everytime.
Right wing ideology: Progress. Technologically, economically.
Left wing ideology: Equality. Human rights, future thinking.
[editline]16th November 2010[/editline]
Facism and communism can't be categorized under these.
[QUOTE=Earthen;26104482]I thought they only got what they needed, so whoever worked the hardest only got enough food to keep him working? Doesn't sound like a good incentive to me.[/QUOTE]
Um, no.
Lazy bastards who won't work (Not can't work) only get bare minimum without 'luxury'. Otherwise there is greater reward for greater work done or skill. You seem to be thinking this means everybody only gets what they need to live and no more, makes me miss Bad Reading.
And Spetzaz, your definitions of Left and Right are far too general/incorrect. Consider 'Left' and 'Right' in the USA, 'Right' is pretty much the opposite of being for progress and technology, but to be fair that's Conservatism, or the desire to keep society as it is/was - doesn't sound much like progress?
Communist, it doesnt kill you and it doesnt have private property or government
[QUOTE=Spetzaz;26105186]Right wing ideology: Progress. Technologically, economically.
[/QUOTE]
funny because most right wings hate progress
[editline]16th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=Melnek;26101297]Many people fail to realize that sadly.[/QUOTE]
Communism was made to take out greed. If they could make enough resources then no one would get an advantage if they horded resources
[QUOTE=Kingy_who;26098342]It was a failed state because it [b]wasn't[/b] communist.[/QUOTE]
lol
Arguing with you guys is like arguing with Objectivists. If I point to examples of communism/free market capitalism going terribly awry in real life, the answer is always "well they didn't DO it right! They weren't REAL communists/free market capitalists, so their horrible failure doesn't count." But it doesn't change the fact that you're advocating a system of government that has led to horrific things pretty much every time someone has tried to implement it.
[QUOTE=TH89;26106546]lol
Arguing with you guys is like arguing with Objectivists. If I point to examples of communism/free market capitalism going terribly awry in real life, the answer is always "well they didn't DO it right! They weren't REAL communists/free market capitalists, so their horrible failure doesn't count." But it doesn't change the fact that you're advocating a system of government that has led to horrific things pretty much every time someone has tried to implement it.[/QUOTE]
so i can advocate a charity and run it bad, doesnt mean all charity is bad
If every charity ever started in the history of the world ended in disaster, it would not be unreasonable to say that starting a charity is a bad idea
[QUOTE=TH89;26106909]If every charity ever started in the history of the world ended in disaster, it would not be unreasonable to say that starting a charity is a bad idea[/QUOTE]
firsty there are not that many examples of communism and 2 those examples always had something added like, its communism and we have a crazy leader or its communism but we dont have a proper amoun of resources
Yes, that's called "real life"
A good political system will still work in real life, and be able to overcome challenges like corrupt leaders and resource shortages
i dont care what kind of political system you have, not having enough food to feed everyone in your country makes that country fucked no matter what way you look at it
Are we talking Nazi Fascism? Because that would have been decent living for the average Aryan, provided you mind your own business. Pretty much just a capitalist society with a dictator I guess...
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;26107524]i dont care what kind of political system you have, not having enough food to feed everyone in your country makes that country fucked no matter what way you look at it[/QUOTE]
Yes, that's why you adopt a good political system that allows you to fix that problem
I don't look at political systems and say that ones the best, it will never fail... I think its safe to assume every government has a expiration date, just pick the one that can last the longest under pressure.
communism... is a system that crumbles easier then others.
[QUOTE=gnoob;26107581]Are we talking Nazi Fascism? Because that would have been decent living for the average Aryan, provided you mind your own business. Pretty much just a capitalist society with a dictator I guess...[/QUOTE]
A capitalist society based off of racial superiority, restrictions on freedom of speech, harsh laws and the average person having no say in anything.
[QUOTE=TH89;26107584]Yes, that's why you adopt a good political system that allows you to fix that problem[/QUOTE]
No thats science that solves problems like that, politics cant make resources out of no were unless it starts a war
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;26107723]No thats science that solves problems like that, politics cant make resources out of no were unless it starts a war[/QUOTE]
Or you could just import food from another country.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;26107723]No thats science that solves problems like that, politics cant make resources out of no were unless it starts a war[/QUOTE]
yeah but most scientists rely on political aid and funding.
so if you're a researcher and you say "fuck politics" chances are you won't get to far with you're ideas no matter how good they are.
One has a nice theory, the other doesn't.
Regardless of execution, I don't see why this is a hard choice -- communism sounds good on paper and fascism sounds horrendous.
Also, for "Radical leftist" are we talking about authoritarian communism like the USSR or North Korea, or democratic communism like Sweden?
[QUOTE=berryman13;26107820]One has a nice theory, the other doesn't.
Regardless of execution, I don't see why this is a hard choice -- communism sounds good on paper and fascism sounds horrendous.[/QUOTE]
Honestly I agree. If Fascism were to be executed flawlessly, the result would be a horrible, brutal society. If Communism were to executed flawlessly, it would be a paradise.
[QUOTE=Micr0;26107760]Or you could just import food from another country.[/QUOTE]
that would need money, something a resourceless country would not have, also would stop the point of communism
[editline]16th November 2010[/editline]
[QUOTE=ScoutKing;26107762]yeah but most scientists rely on political aid and funding.
so if you're a researcher and you say "fuck politics" chances are you won't get to far with you're ideas no matter how good they are.[/QUOTE]
you can still do science without government funding, if your willing to do something for no pay that is
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