• The perfect way to end poverty (atleast, in Vancouver)
    103 replies, posted
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28739142]You cant say communism failed if it was never really tried. Im not making an argument for communism Im saying your making a bad one against it.[/QUOTE] Lol it was tried many times in different countries. It has not worked well in any.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28739142]You cant say communism failed if it was never really tried. Im not making an argument for communism Im saying your making a bad one against it.[/QUOTE] Yes you can say it failed because in a communist society you first have to go through a temporary stage that puts one person or group of people in charge (dictatorship really) but the problem is that they never get past that stage because the person in power isn't going to give it up to try and create a true communist society so it has technically been attempted but has failed the same way every time and probably always will.
[QUOTE=Meller Yeller;28739421]Yes you can say it failed because in a communist society you first have to go through a temporary stage that puts one person or group of people in charge (dictatorship really) but the problem is that they never get past that stage because the person in power isn't going to give it up to try and create a true communist society so it has technically been attempted but has failed the same way every time and probably always will.[/QUOTE] The term is "Dictatorship of the Proletariat". [editline]21st March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Explosions;28739171]Lol it was tried many times in different countries. It has not worked well in any.[/QUOTE] There have been some fairly successful small communes. [editline]21st March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Explosions;28739101][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman[/url][/QUOTE] A false argument. They weren't real communism not because there is a perfect ideal, but because they never made it to communism, just a theoretically necessary stage known as "Dictatorship of the Proletariat", in which some people who, in theory aren't greedy and understand the needs of the workers and the needs of the next stage set things up with their ultimate power, and then step down to a communist society.
[QUOTE=Explosions;28739171]Lol it was tried many times in different countries. It has not worked well in any.[/QUOTE] I'm assuming imasillypiggy means marxism, which is the ground for all other socialist ideologies. In a marxist society, the state is merely temporary and is to be abolished once complete socialism has been achieved. [QUOTE=Meller Yeller;28739421]Yes you can say it failed because in a communist society you first have to go through a temporary stage that puts one person or group of people in charge (dictatorship really)[/QUOTE]It's intentional. It's called "dictatorship of the proletariat", as Treybutched said.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28738152]Born greedy? find me the greedy gene before you act like environment isn't the main factor.[/QUOTE] ...you're just a more greedy person than the next guy, its just how you were born. Some people lust after money and power more than others, environment doesn't have much to do with it. There are greedy people in all walks of life.
[QUOTE=Blanketspace;28724706]Where does the money to pay these homeless people appear from?[/QUOTE] Why the agrees ? You can feed the whole African continent for a month if you sell one of those B2's, money would not be a problem. This is valid for any government by the way, before you question me about the B2.
[QUOTE=Monomiro;28730799]The only reason you can't get rid of money is because humans are by influence of society greedy and selfish. They don't care about society as a whole, they only care when they benefit from caring. That doesn't just mean a paycheck, it can mean a reputation, recognition by another, feeling better about themselves, etc. Humans refuse to understand the concept of working to better society as a whole with no incentive or reward.[/QUOTE] We are greedy and selfish because of evolution. When populations grow they begin to compete for resources and thus they become greedy and wrathful. Just because we can go against our instincts doesn't mean we can go against our primal needs.
I like to use the Facepunch Wurm Online towns as an example for a society without currency, sadly, it isn't possible now that free users are on the freedom server.
[QUOTE=zydos;28747113]...you're just a more greedy person than the next guy, its just how you were born. Some people lust after money and power more than others, environment doesn't have much to do with it. There are greedy people in all walks of life.[/QUOTE] Im sorry but thats the least scientific thing I heard all day. You cant just say some people are greedy for no reason there is a cause of it and most scientists would agree its environmental. Your some people are just born bad thing is an easy way of not solving problems and allowing you to just blame the person who did the act instead of looking into what caused it. There is a reason that diferent countries have different crime rates you know.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28754930]Im sorry but thats the least scientific thing I heard all day. You cant just say some people are greedy for no reason there is a cause of it and most scientists would agree its environmental. Your some people are just born bad thing is an easy way of not solving problems and allowing you to just blame the person who did the act instead of looking into what caused it. There is a reason that diferent countries have different crime rates you know.[/QUOTE] I'm not trying to be scientific dude, its plain logic. Some people have greedier personalities, you're diving too deep into it you silly piggy. When did this go from "how to end poverty" to "how people are greedy"?
Well you trying to say people are naturally born greedy when we know thats not true. Peoples personalities come from the environment. Also logic is kind of scientific in that its logical to be scientific and that logic is scientific.
No, dude, think about it, its a personality trait. My older brother is a greedy little fuck, and I live in a somewhat normal household, and he goes to a normal school, and has normal friends, and a normal job, so no, it's not his environment. It's just the way my bro is. [editline]23rd March 2011[/editline] he always stole like all the cookies and chips and coke and crackers and cereal and everything
Can't fix Vancouver [editline]23rd March 2011[/editline] ever
[QUOTE=Explosions;28739101][url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman[/url][/QUOTE]Is the Democratic Republic of Korea a democratic republic because they say so? Is Gaddafi loved by all of his people just because he said so? Same deal here. None of the countries, former and present, labelled communist have gotten there yet. They probably never will, either, for 2 reasons: 1: The system is not viable in a pure form 2: The people in power in those countries don't want it to be. The ones in power in those countries are/were quite happy with their corrupt, authoritarian regimes.
[QUOTE=zydos;28761558]No, dude, think about it, its a personality trait. My older brother is a greedy little fuck, and I live in a somewhat normal household, and he goes to a normal school, and has normal friends, and a normal job, so no, it's not his environment. It's just the way my bro is. [editline]23rd March 2011[/editline] he always stole like all the cookies and chips and coke and crackers and cereal and everything[/QUOTE] Did you have the exact same life as your brother? of course not so you 2 will not be the same. Cause and effect is the most basic parts of science and nothing ever is something just because. Your brother had a different life then you so you reacted differently.
We're one year apart [editline]24th March 2011[/editline] We basically had the exact same lives
Just steal from every recycling bin everywhere and deposit all the cans for nickels.
[QUOTE=zydos;28791655]We're one year apart [editline]24th March 2011[/editline] We basically had the exact same lives[/QUOTE] No you didn't or else you would be exactly the same person. Think about it since he was still a baby when you were born she had to stop looking after him as much which has an effect on him which could explain why he is a jerk to you. I mean its like you saying you don't believe in evolution because your goldfish isn't a frog.
No, two people with similar lives aren't the same person, they're two different people with similar lives Fuck you're dense [editline]25th March 2011[/editline] Goldfish? Frog? Ok, are you trying to sound like an idiot? That analogy is useless
[QUOTE=zydos;28747113]...you're just a more greedy person than the next guy, its just how you were born. Some people lust after money and power more than others, environment doesn't have much to do with it. There are greedy people in all walks of life.[/QUOTE] But that's not how genes work. [QUOTE=zydos;28802024]No, two people with similar lives aren't the same person, they're two different people with similar lives[/QUOTE] That's because you can't replicate the 100% exact same stimuli for two people. Twins share exact DNA but are really often completely different people. There goes your gene hypothesis.
Why is it that when somebody comes up with an idea that will cost money, they conveniently leave out that they want somebody other than themselves to pay for it?
[QUOTE=ChrisDom;28730528]Like what?[/QUOTE] well crime for one thing without a regulated medium of exchange (ie currency) it becomes [B]muuuuuch[/B] easier for the strong (criminals, particularly organized crime, corrupt government in an anarchistic setting which we'd almost certainly be talking about if everybody decided to just up and abolish currency, and basically everyone who sees an opportunity and decides to be a dick) to take advantage of the weak and/or misinformed in a barter system the idea that poverty wouldn't exist without money is ludicrously naive
-snip-
[QUOTE=zydos;28802024]No, two people with similar lives aren't the same person, they're two different people with similar lives Fuck you're dense [editline]25th March 2011[/editline] Goldfish? Frog? Ok, are you trying to sound like an idiot? That analogy is useless[/QUOTE] Im sorry I forgot about this conversation but you showed you know nothing of what your talking about so I think I win this argument. This was the least logical scientific argument I ever had.
And neither did you, you tried to over complicate things. Ugh, amateurs.
I tried to explain it scientifically but you didn't get it. Just look up how the environment shapes us on google.
Here's a better idea. Fixes poverty and the economy and costs less than other programs that don't actually work (such as bailing out the banks) There are 308,000,000 people in the united states (roughly). Assuming that 25% of the population is under 18 (it's between 23 and 26 percent), there are 231,000,000 over the age of 18 in the United States. If the government gave everyone over 18 $1,000,000 with three stipulations, the economy would be fixed. 1- Must buy a new american car 2- Must buy a new home or pay off existing mortgage 3- Everyone 50 and over must retire (assuming 15% of the population is 50+ that's 46.2m jobs) voilà
I understand your point man. I really do. You can stop trying to make it make sense. We ALL get it. I'm saying you're over-complicating everything. Environment isn't the only thing that makes us who we are. You're saying that one factor is the ONLY factor. They all tie in. I'm saying that people are also born the way they are, greedy or not. Environment only adds or takes away from that greed. [editline]30th March 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Ven Kaeo;28900049]Here's a better idea. Fixes poverty and the economy and costs less than other programs that don't actually work (such as bailing out the banks) There are 308,000,000 people in the united states (roughly). Assuming that 25% of the population is under 18 (it's between 23 and 26 percent), there are 231,000,000 over the age of 18 in the United States. If the government gave everyone over 18 $1,000,000 with three stipulations, the economy would be fixed. 1- Must buy a new american car 2- Must buy a new home or pay off existing mortgage 3- Everyone 50 and over must retire (assuming 15% of the population is 50+ that's 46.2m jobs) voilà[/QUOTE] Thanks for the input, but I'm talking about Vancouver, BC, Canada.
[QUOTE=zydos;28900060]I understand your point man. I really do. You can stop trying to make it make sense. We ALL get it. I'm saying you're over-complicating everything. Environment isn't the only thing that makes us who we are. You're saying that one factor is the ONLY factor. They all tie in. I'm saying that people are also born the way they are, greedy or not. Environment only adds or takes away from that greed. .[/QUOTE] Sorry but there is no greedy gene. There are a few genes that are linked to emotions that vary in people but they are rare, don't change to much and most6 importantly are only triggered by the environment (yes genes can turn on and off) again you don't know about what you are talking about ask any scientist and they will say no one is born greedy or nice or anything it doesn't work that way at all. Well ok unless there was an environmental effect as the child was in the womb which does happen every now and then like if his mother stopped eating during her birth the child inside would gain fat easier and be hungry more and it might somehow relate to other non hunger greeds as well.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;28900252]scientist and they will say no one is born greedy or nice or anything it doesn't work that way at all.[/QUOTE] So I should ask a nuclear physicist about it? They're called geneticists. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. It's their fucking personality, kid. Just stop trying. [url]http://www.iol.co.za/news/science/greedy-gene-linked-to-obesity-1.810251[/url] [editline]30th March 2011[/editline] What's that? "Greedy gene"? Thanks for playing
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