• Should "Under God" be removed from pledge?
    180 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Shiftyze;32384388]Also while in court you put your hand on the bible and swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth so help me God. What if you don't believe, can you just lie then?[/QUOTE] If a man honestly didn't take that pledge and stated exactly why was because his religion- I'd believe him more than any of the thousands of liars who put there hand on that book.
It doesn't need to be removed. If words like "Under God" offend you, then that's just pretty silly.
[QUOTE=Octave;32384228]It was put in in 1954 to give the pledge the "characteristic and definitive factor in the American way of life". I feel it should be taken out because it's unconstitutional, not to mention definitely doesn't to accomodate for polytheistic religions.[/QUOTE] One nation, under (insert 30 Roman gods here), one and indivisible.
[QUOTE=JumJum;32384448]It doesn't need to be removed. If words like "Under God" offend you, then that's just pretty silly.[/QUOTE] I think its sillier that people got offended that it wasn't in there.
Also when I was in highschool (I don't know if this is still true) you didn't have to say the pledge as you couldn't be forced too all you had to do was stand up and pay respect for the moment of silence.
[QUOTE=ntzu;32384121]Not really, im pretty sure that line was put in at a time where an atheist was such a rare find, that the whole christian thing really was appropriate.[/QUOTE] It was put in during the cold war when atheism=communism=Soviet Union=evil.
[QUOTE=SNNS-SEAN;32384470]One nation, under (insert 30 Roman gods here), one and indivisible.[/QUOTE]Obviously I'm suggesting they remove the phrase, not add some other phrase to encompass every belief. The point is that it asserts there's one central god and certainly doesn't follow the doctrine of freedom of religion.
[QUOTE=loco;32384510]Also when I was in highschool (I don't know if this is still true) you didn't have to say the pledge as you couldn't be forced too all you had to do was stand up and pay respect for the moment of silence.[/QUOTE] In my area you just had to not interrupt anybody else that was doing the pledge. If you just sat quiet you would be alright. I guess this differs depending on area.
[QUOTE=JumJum;32384448]It doesn't need to be removed. If words like "Under God" offend you, then that's just pretty silly.[/QUOTE] it's less about offence and more about sticking to your beliefs. there are millions of americans who follow other religions or are non believers. favoring christianity excludes them and thus negates any possibility of true equality
Doesn't do any harm if it's there. If kids really don't want to say it, they don't have to.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;32384567]Doesn't do any harm if it's there. If kids really don't want to say it, they don't have to.[/QUOTE] I head to football games and don't say it; people yell at me all the time or call me a terrorist. Again just general public it happens not just with kids, at least with kids they'd get in trouble if they started yelling at Timmy for not pledging.
[QUOTE=Fables;32384598]I head to football games and don't say it; people yell at me all the time or call me a terrorist. Again just general public it happens not just with kids, at least with kids they'd get in trouble if they started yelling at Timmy for not pledging.[/QUOTE] And if they remove it? The public would have a bigger uproar.
The United States of America was founded on freedom of religion Plus I don't understand how saying "under god" would cause someone to try to get it removed.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;32384567]Doesn't do any harm if it's there. If kids really don't want to say it, they don't have to.[/QUOTE] I don't get why it ended up making the news a couple years ago when some kid would sit down during the pledges. I could tell that a few teachers didn't like me for not believing in God, the fun part is that they'd get sued if they didn't defend me.
I'll probably get boxed for this. It is indeed unconstitutional, but it's been there for so long, the only difference it would make if it was removed would be even more right wing fucknuts thinking that everybody but them is part of a gigantic communist satanist conspiracy to destroy the U.S.
[QUOTE=Smug Bastard;32384661]I'll probably get boxed for this. It is indeed unconstitutional, but it's been there for so long, the only difference it would make if it was removed would be even more right wing fucknuts thinking that everybody but them is part of a gigantic communist satanist conspiracy to destroy the U.S.[/QUOTE]1954. "Under God" was added in 1954. It has only been approximately 57 years. It's really not that much and the modified Pledge is NOT the traditional form. Also "In God We Trust" should be removed from the bills. Unnecessary, violates separation of chuch and state, etc etc.
[QUOTE=RIPBILLYMAYS;32384567]Doesn't do any harm if it's there. If kids really don't want to say it, they don't have to.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=JumJum;32384448]It doesn't need to be removed. If words like "Under God" offend you, then that's just pretty silly.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Michael haxz;32384640]Plus I don't understand how saying "under god" would cause someone to try to get it removed.[/QUOTE] really you guys? the current pledge excludes the beliefs of a giant subcategory of americans, how can you think that is possibly okay? maybe this will help you put it into perspective: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBqGpQ1RDU[/media]
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;32384222]"Under God" is a divisive, non-inclusive statement that undermines the very beliefs and goals of America's founding fathers. And don't think I can't talk about this as a Canadian, I've read a lot more about American history and the people who created the nation than most Americans ever will, and I can assure you, the founding fathers would be rolling in their graves if they could, screaming "SEPARATION OF CHRUCH AND STATE"[/QUOTE] you obviously put too much faith in the founding fathers then
It is unconstitutional and needs to be removed.
It's honestly not that big of a deal
[QUOTE=TropicalV2;32384793]really you guys? the current pledge excludes the beliefs of a giant subcategory of americans, how can you think that is possibly okay? maybe this will help you put it into perspective: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwBqGpQ1RDU[/media][/QUOTE]That was a really good video, thanks for that.
[QUOTE=TropicalV2;32384793]really you guys? the current pledge excludes the beliefs of a giant subcategory of americans, how can you think that is possibly okay? maybe this will help you put it into perspective: [/QUOTE] I don't see how thats shunning other religions, thats like saying each time a Muslim kid prays in school, it shuns my religion (which is Christianity).
[QUOTE=Octave;32384847]That was a really good video, thanks for that.[/QUOTE] no problem, I had to watch it in conflict resolution last year along with all the other videos that were submitted for the secularist values project. here are the rest if you're interested [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-fCOsTafEsp[/media]
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;32384640]The United States of America was founded on freedom of religion Plus I don't understand how saying "under god" would cause someone to try to get it removed.[/QUOTE] It was founded so people could practice religion freely, but the government can't push (even subtly) a national religion either. In the first amendment, it states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", and having the words "Under God" in the pledge is promoting the establishment of a monotheistic religion, which is unconstitutional.
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;32384919]I don't see how thats shunning other religions, thats like saying each time a Muslim kid prays in school, it shuns my religion (which is Christianity).[/QUOTE] It's not so much shunning other religions as it is essentially stating that one religion is more valid than other systems of beliefs. I forgot who said this, but equality is an all or nothing deal, either you represent everyone equally or represent no one.
In response to people who say that by the time a child is in middle school they can decide if they want to say it or not; what about the elementary school kids? I remember being in kindergarten, and being taught the pledge. I said the whole thing, "Under God" and all, despite having never gone to church or ever having any religion in my life. My point is that those little 5-year-olds aren't going to chose if they want to say it because they'll just do what their taught to do. It isn't anything related to religion even, all it means to them is that it's part of being a good American to be "Under God".
[QUOTE=loco;32384632]And if they remove it? The public would have a bigger uproar.[/QUOTE] Maybe they should recognize other religions exist besides Abrahamic ones? I'm opposed to it because it doesn't just exclude atheists it excludes other religions.
the people who say it's not a big deal don't get it the reason we are so mad about this is that it is ignorant of the principles that we were fucking founded on and that's a bit of a big fucking deal
It is very unconstitutional and should be removed, it basically offends other religions, and America has the greatest diversity of religons and cultures in the world.
[QUOTE=Michael haxz;32384919]I don't see how thats shunning other religions, thats like saying each time a Muslim kid prays in school, it shuns my religion (which is Christianity).[/QUOTE] It excludes by being an official thing. Muslim kids praying in your school doesn't shun your religion, but imagine if there was a schoolwide designated time for Muslim prayer. That's a much more extreme example but it's the same principle.
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