• Should "Under God" be removed from pledge?
    180 replies, posted
It shouldnt matter, it wasnt in the pledge till the fifties due to fear of communists.
I don't think it should be there, it wasn't there in the beginning.
all the versions here [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance[/url]
We should also substitute "Holiday" for "Christmas" ex. Merry Christmas! - Wrong. Happy Holidays! - Correct. [sp]sarcasm[/sp]
Perhaps lol [editline]20th September 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Nightstyle;32399829]We should also substitute "Holiday" for "Christmas" ex. Merry Christmas! - Wrong. Happy Holidays! - Correct. [sp]sarcasm[/sp][/QUOTE] I know your being sarcastic but thats a person to person thing, not a government institution. I dont want anyone, including government, telling me what I cant say.
I don't really mind if it goes or stays. I just think we need to remove the "... with liberty and justice for ALL" part of the pledge. Funny story: I used to get in trouble in 1st grade for not saying the "under God."
The government guarantees protection of religion, not protection from religion. I don't think those two words in the pledge are harming anyone, it seems pointless to remove them.
Well religious stuff like this should really be optional or even completely omitted, because why would someone who doesn't believe in "god" say it just because some people believe it's correct? It's like expecting everyone to be under one religion, when really the whole concept of religion is personal belief and that's it, not facts.
I believe yes. They were added for little reason and those who don't believe in god are not supported by it. It goes against the constitution by making our government non-secular and should be removed. The only reason it isn't already is (my guess) because those in power are too afraid of being called anti-religious. I leave out the 'Under God' in the pledge anyway when I say it at school, but I shouldn't have to leave anything out at all.
I don't know if this has been said but they should simpily change it from "under god" to "under our deity"
[QUOTE=Sam xD;32401740]I don't know if this has been said but they should simpily change it from "under god" to "under our deity"[/QUOTE] That doesn't solve the root problem of it being unconstitutional because of the mixing of state and religion.
[QUOTE=Sam xD;32401740]I don't know if this has been said but they should simpily change it from "under god" to "under our deity"[/QUOTE] Or just scrap the whole thing because it's crap anyway, and was never there in the beginning.
Hell yes it needs to be removed. I actually don't say it when reciting the pledge regardless of the fact that I believe in a higher power, because it just simply [I]isn't right.[/I]
[QUOTE=Tunak Mk. II;32400189]The government guarantees protection of religion, not protection from religion. I don't think those two words in the pledge are harming anyone, it seems pointless to remove them.[/QUOTE] Attention Facepunch Posters. A smart person has entered the forum. I say again, a smart person has entered the forum.
[QUOTE=rosar0980;32401953]Attention Facepunch Posters. A smart person has entered the forum. I say again, a smart person has entered the forum.[/QUOTE] Mind getting off your high horse there?
[QUOTE=Megafanx13;32402045]Mind getting off your high horse there?[/QUOTE] Being 6' 4", that's not easy unless I go to my knees.
Isn't hurting anything, though honestly I believe it shouldn't be in there.
Yes it should be done away with but it won't happen or long from now. It's just part of our country and is very meaningless now but its just...there. It's like people who bitch over changing over to metric, we're too set in our ways to change, at this point it'd just be a pain in the ass.
Absolutely.
Children shouldn't have to say the pledge, because regardless of any god, you're also instilling nationalism into them. They should be allowed to decide whether America is any good or not without bias.
Not like anyone says the pledge anymore, so there's no point in removing it.
[QUOTE=TropicalV2;32397210]it's understandable that you aren't sure of how court appeals work since you're a foreigner supreme court rulings supersede district court rulings, and although a distract court found the pledge unconstitutional, that decision was overturned by the supreme court[/QUOTE] ah, gotcha [editline]21st September 2011[/editline] to tell the truth, I'm not sure why I'm trying to argue it unconstitutional - it just seems to go against separation of church and state
[QUOTE=Rubs10;32402753]Children shouldn't have to say the pledge, because regardless of any god, you're also instilling nationalism into them. They should be allowed to decide whether America is any good or not without bias.[/QUOTE] sorry that some people think a national identity is important? our fervent patriotism is one of the best parts of our country. no matter where my ancestors have hailed from, i can assimilate with other individuals from different cultures because we're all americans in the end. you're thinking of american exceptionalism, which is the dumb and unfounded idea that america is this great fucking nation where nothing bad happens and that we are morally superior to every other country / culture.
Since this is a debate on the subject I'll just leave this here... [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance#Legal_challenges[/URL] The general consensus is that the term "One Nation Under God" is ceremonious in nature, not religious in nature. That, and the 1st Amendment and Federal Law basically state you aren't required to say the Pledge. I haven't go to high school in about five years so beyond what I've already stated I have nothing further to add.
I don't know about you guys, but where I'm from the pledge is totally optional to say. I still stand up and do the hand over heart thing out of respect for the country, but I don't say the pledge because not everyone has "freedom and justice" yet.
[QUOTE=TropicalV2;32403233]sorry that some people think a national identity is important? our fervent patriotism is one of the best parts of our country. no matter where my ancestors have hailed from, i can assimilate with other individuals from different cultures because we're all americans in the end. you're thinking of american exceptionalism, which is the dumb and unfounded idea that america is this great fucking nation where nothing bad happens and that we are morally superior to every other country / culture.[/QUOTE] Patriotism creates that problem in the first place. If no one was patriotic to their culture or country, then you could assimilate with anyone because you're all just people in the end.
[QUOTE=Rubs10;32402753]Children shouldn't have to say the pledge, because regardless of any god, you're also instilling nationalism into them. They should be allowed to decide whether America is any good or not without bias.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rubs10;32403928]Patriotism creates that problem in the first place. If no one was patriotic to their culture or country, then you could assimilate with anyone because you're all just people in the end.[/QUOTE] I agree with this. People can't argue that nationalism plays a large role in politics today, national identity is irrelevant. People on these forums bitch about the indoctrination of the church all the time, the state does the same with the "pledge of allegiance". There's no reason children mostly not being mentally capable of legitimately criticizing the state should have to "pledge allegiance" to it, in the same way there's no reason to indoctrinate children into the church if it's reasoning is sound and being critical of it is not warranted. If the state is always right nobody will have to pledge allegiance to it at the age of 5 in the first place. Non-Americans probably think it's creepy as fuck, to be perfectly honest. I've always thought that it was.
In this country most primary schools, religious or not force children to sing Christian hymns at some point during the week. Lower class scum typically stereotype Muslims and complain when mosques are built. It really is pathetic. I believe in no religion myself, but the views on life I agree with most are in [i]Sikhisim[/i] philosophy, and I am not even from any eastern background. Children should be taught the true definition of religion : [b]what you believe.[/b]
Yes, because if you do not believe in a higher being, you should not be forced to salute him. Anyone who says "who cares" doesn't see the bigger picture. If we allow this to contiune, they it will forever be ingrained in the culuture, and it will never leave.
I'll admit I was too much of a pussy in high school to not say the pledge. I really wish I had done something to protest it back then. The pledge as a whole is retarded, not just the "under god" part.
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