Should bullies be accountable for suicides that they caused?
122 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Typhoonx10;34097770]No, the bully hasn't exactly forced suicide onto someone and probably had no intent of making someone want to kill themself.[/QUOTE]
The same way a drunk driver has no intention of murdering the family of 4 he crashes into?
The cause of the death should be accounted for. And since you can't blame the victim really as the cause of death, the bully is the true target to be faulted.
They indirectly murdered someone. And if they didn't "intend" to, that sucks for them. They should be held entirely accountable, because it shows that being an asshole to other people for no reason will get you nowhere. Sure, accidents happen, but when it's under the circumstance that you are attacking someone in a negative manner then it gets to the point in which it's just mean to do so.
And unlike the drunk driver situation, that wasn't preventable to as much of an extent as bullying someone. If you bully someone, you are entirely aware of the situation at hand.
So yes, in my opinion the bully should be accounted for the death of the victim. Assisted suicide is an entirely possible fault on the bully. It's impossible for the bully to defend their case. If they said, "Well I didn't fuckin know they were gonna hang themselves."
Well stop acting like such a shit head and think for a second. You also can't use the argument of, "I was beaten by my dad as a child. So I became bad." Sure it can happen, but using that as a primary argument is a load of shit. All of this is entirely preventable from the bully's side. Under circumstances, the victim can't change anything.
If there is any proof of the bully antagonizing the victim on any level, they should be accounted for and faulted. However to the extent of how much they actually bullied the victim, it's still bullying none the less. On any level.
[QUOTE=OvB;34101140]The same way a drunk driver has no intention of murdering the family of 4 he crashes into?[/QUOTE]
But there the family couldn't have done anything to prevent this.
The bullied can speak about it to some grown people. Or just sucker punch the bully and become a fight bro with him.
[QUOTE=Musculus;34101431]But there the family couldn't have done anything to prevent this.
The bullied can speak about it to some grown people. Or just sucker punch the bully and become a fight bro with him.[/QUOTE]
You obviously haven't been bullied before.
it may possibly be classed as involuntary manslaughter (UK) if the bullying is extreme. I would also say they should be held accountable as they have effectively unlawfully caused the death of another person
Oh I had been.
And I won, thanks to my superior intelligence.
My brother was too, and he won thanks to his fists.
Mommy always tells I'm the thinker one.
[QUOTE=Musculus;34101703]Oh I had been.
And I won, thanks to my superior intelligence.
My brother was too, and he won thanks to his fists.
Mommy always tells I'm the thinker one.[/QUOTE]
Watch out, we've got a badass over here.
I can't tell if you're serious or not. You can't just write off victims as not being man enough to handle bullying. There are plenty of them who do go for help, but don't receive any.
I say no. In probably the least assholish way i can this, i agree that it's like a form of natural selection.
The real world is not all cotton candy and unicorns, where everyone loves you for you and nothing is bad. If a kid killed themselves because a bully kept calling an openly gay kid a faggot, well you have a weak kid. A kid who is too afraid to stand up for himself. If he killed himself because some random fucker called him a faggot, just "faggot" then i'd hate to see what that kid would have done if people did something more than use a word that barely even means "gay" anymore.
Also i want to clarify that i'm not saying it is natural selection, it's reminiscent of a form of it. Like said above, proper therepy could help, but there are people who are too afraid to even as so much ask for help.
[QUOTE=Ploo;34097706]Suicide is just the modern society's natural selection
Let it be.[/QUOTE]
Get out.
On topic, I think they should, I mean you continually harass someone to the point where they end their own life and you are probably the reasoning behind the fact that they ended it so many years early. Of course you should be held accountable, at the very least it is verbal assault, possibly physical is you beat the fuck out of them. There's NO reason you should not be held accountable.
They should but they shouldn't be charged with murder or anything, a lot of them don't intend to cause the victim to suicide.
Should they be accountable? Yes.
Now will we actually punish bullies who cause suicides? No.
Until we can read peoples minds, we can't tell if the person was intentionally trying to make them suicide.
[QUOTE=Bean Shoot;34101775]I can't tell if you're serious or not. You can't just write off victims as not being man enough to handle bullying. There are plenty of them who do go for help, but don't receive any.[/QUOTE]
Problem with the bullied is that they usually try to reason with the bullies, or call some adults to tell the bully to stop.
And he realizes, too late, that this is the most retarded way to cope with the problem. Bullies aren't some evil incarnations who just doesn't understand what being good is and keep annoying people because they can't handle social things. They are just kids who want to have some fun, and will beat up the most socially awkward pupil of their class, because he is totally unworthy of some respect.
I had amazing marks at school and I knew how to make them laugh, thus respect. My bro beat up some guy who liked to fight (being a boy, that stuff), thus respect.
And thanks to those bullies, I learned better how to deal with other people. They're useful mang.
While someone who provoke the suicide should have some accountability for it, they should not be held solely responsible. People who commit suicide are mentally ill, and it's their decision to kill themselves.
[QUOTE=OvB;34101140]The same way a drunk driver has no intention of murdering the family of 4 he crashes into?[/QUOTE]
Touche, only he actually physically killed them himself. Not suicide.
[QUOTE=RobbL;34097872]No, bullies should be accountable for what they directly do to the victim, not what the victim does to themselves.[/QUOTE]
This. It would be completely insane to hold someone accountable for something they have not directly caused. Schools and other institutions should just take better care to stop bullying.
[QUOTE=OvB;34101140]The same way a drunk driver has no intention of murdering the family of 4 he crashes into?[/QUOTE]
That is a flawed analogue since drunk driving is illegal while being a dick is not. If the bullying itself is not a crime, it should be not illegal if it leads someone to suicide either.
For example : If you fire an employee that has been slacking off at work and he kills himself, you technically caused him to kill himself and should be held accountable.
Nope, not as murder.
But yes, they should be held accountable.
[QUOTE=legolover122;34102091]Should they be accountable? Yes.
Now will we actually punish bullies who cause suicides? No.
Until we can read peoples minds, we can't tell if the person was intentionally trying to make them suicide.[/QUOTE]
This.
[QUOTE=Ploo;34097706]Suicide is just the modern society's natural selection
Let it be.[/QUOTE]Yeah, that's not how natural selection works at all, but okay.
[editline]7th January 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=tier56;34102286]This.[/QUOTE]You don't have to intend to commit a crime to commit a crime. Most cases where bullying results in a suicide it's not the intention of the bully to make the victim kill themselves, it doesn't make any difference what their intent was though, that's not how law works.
If I killed myself because Bush was re-elected, should he be held accountable for murder?
Yes, they should.
No, they shouldn't. Most people who commit suicide have undiagnosed mental problems.
[QUOTE=BigOwl;34103324]If I killed myself because Bush was re-elected, should he be held accountable for murder?[/QUOTE]Bullying is not equal to harassment, it's more comparable to a person being elected president. Good, good argument!
Of course!!
If a bully causes someone to get to the state of commiting suicide, then they should be held accountable, even though they did not directly kill the person.
Its like me destroying a car with people in it - the car burns them to death. Even though i did not directly kill them(unlike if i, for example, stabbed them to death) im still going to court for it - I know its a bad example but the point still stands.
[QUOTE=Musculus;34102104]Problem with the bullied is that they usually try to reason with the bullies, or call some adults to tell the bully to stop.
And he realizes, too late, that this is the most retarded way to cope with the problem. Bullies aren't some evil incarnations who just doesn't understand what being good is and keep annoying people because they can't handle social things. They are just kids who want to have some fun, and will beat up the most socially awkward pupil of their class, because he is totally unworthy of some respect.
I had amazing marks at school and I knew how to make them laugh, thus respect. My bro beat up some guy who liked to fight (being a boy, that stuff), thus respect.
And thanks to those bullies, I learned better how to deal with other people. They're useful mang.[/QUOTE]
Please give me some data supporting your claim instead of trying to justify bullying by saying "respect" a lot.
[QUOTE=Rolond Returns;34097779]Get out.
Yes, they should be held entirely accountable; it is essentially murder.[/QUOTE]
Lol no, actually the bully victims require some good parenting in that case, wise parenting, shit that I'd hope to offer some day. (Same would apply for the bullies.. Implying it's often about families too. Having known some bullies and being friends with some, knowing their families as well made me understand them in a way.. whatever)
Kids that off themselves at the age of 12-14 is just plain fucking sad.. for them. Obviously they didn't think about all the shit they could have done, but I don't blame them directly either.. But ultimately, bullying is nothing. And then there's also just stupid douchebags, but they get recognized as such at later age inside your group of people if you ever "survive" that far, again good parenting helps tremendously.
Someone may have already stated this but
I think its hard a question but i would say no, firstly [B]wouldn't that encourage kids to do suicides when you would know that it would make the bullies life harder[/B],
secondly the[B] bullying should be prevented by any means before the suicide happens![/B]
[QUOTE=Bean Shoot;34108811]Please give me some data supporting your claim instead of trying to justify bullying by saying "respect" a lot.[/QUOTE]
There's not. What's your point? No sociologist made studies about those facts, so I can't make hypothesises?
Tell me why you find it wrong. What I said is what I used to get rid of bullies. Maybe you have some elements which can invalidate my idea.
No, if someone killed themselves than people would begin pointing fingers. And the suicide usually isn't intentionally caused. Bullying already is illlegal, kid should have gone for help.
And yes its just modern natural selection.
I think yes if the bullying was on an extreme level. If the bully/bullies were harassing the victim constantly, sending them hate mail, using violence, threatening them regularly, genuinely making their lives a misery then yes they should be punished for it. Perhaps not charged with murder but definitely punished. They may not have intended to get that person to kill themselves but they did intend to cause them great pain and misery for their own entertainment. They couldn't not know that they were causing great suffering to someone else, it is psychological torture and pure cruelty.
Those who bully on a mild level are stupid fucks who I look down upon but if someone killed themselves over milder bullying I think getting the law involved is too much, the person who killed themselves was probably exceptionally sensitive. I hate bullying, these people don't understand how they can scar a person for life (myself included) but giving them a criminal record over stupid immature behavior is too much.
[QUOTE=Musculus;34102104]Problem with the bullied is that they usually try to reason with the bullies, or call some adults to tell the bully to stop.
And he realizes, too late, that this is the most retarded way to cope with the problem. Bullies aren't some evil incarnations who just doesn't understand what being good is and keep annoying people because they can't handle social things. They are just kids who want to have some fun, and will beat up the most socially awkward pupil of their class, because he is totally unworthy of some respect.
I had amazing marks at school and I knew how to make them laugh, thus respect. My bro beat up some guy who liked to fight (being a boy, that stuff), thus respect.
And thanks to those bullies, I learned better how to deal with other people. They're useful mang.[/QUOTE]
I learnt to deal with bullies in the end with sarcasm (they were not physically violent), sadly I discovered the method too late, I still have issues with myself today seven years later. Sure I've grown a lot stronger, I'm not sitting around crying over it or blaming it for all of my problems, but I will never claim bullying is useful or in any way acceptable.
[QUOTE=xXDictatorXx;34111938]I think yes if the bullying was on an extreme level. If the bully/bullies were harassing the victim constantly, sending them hate mail, using violence, threatening them regularly, genuinely making their lives a misery then yes they should be punished for it. Perhaps not charged with murder but definitely punished. They may not have intended to get that person to kill themselves but they did intend to cause them great pain and misery for their own entertainment. They couldn't not know that they were causing great suffering to someone else, it is psychological torture and pure cruelty.
Those who bully on a mild level are stupid fucks who I look down upon but if someone killed themselves over milder bullying I think getting the law involved is too much, the person who killed themselves was probably exceptionally sensitive. I hate bullying, these people don't understand how they can scar a person for life (myself included) but giving them a criminal record over stupid immature behavior is too much.[/QUOTE]
Doing that is already illegal.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;34112124]Doing that is already illegal.[/QUOTE]
What is the punishment?
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