Whenever I study art, sometimes I get problems translating written/oral feedback into a visual solution.
Under the premise that other people feel the same, I try to give feedback visually, i.e. by 'redline' or photoshop magic.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/facepunch/PD/face.png[/IMG]
If anyone is interested they can post their work or parts of their work here, and I'll try to dissect any issues you may have with anatomy, light, brushstrokes, etc. etc.
And obviously anyone can help critique work too.
[IMG]http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2012/300/f/5/yare_yare_daze__by_agnithefire-d5j0gui.jpg[/IMG]
been trying to make a less crappy painting for months, but still being a lazy ass, can you give me some tips?
Alright, to start there are a couple things you can adjust. The tone is aggressive and 'actiony' so I suggest a direct contact between the subject and the viewer. There are two technical obstacles to this though.
I think it would help if direct eye contact should be made unless you were going for the 'I don't care but I'm pointing anyways' thing
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/daze/2.jpg[/IMG]
The other is that he's not directly pointing at the viewer. That's just an anatomy thing, if that's something you want to practice then there are tons of websites that have anatomy exercises and photos to draw from.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/daze/1.jpg[/IMG]
I'm not asking you to completely overhaul your drawing, but for future notice there is a more efficient method of digi-drawing that you should look into.
It's a style of lineart + stencil shading that makes the most of drawing software. You don't need a tablet, just a scanned drawing with thick line art, but I hope this diagram explains the rest.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/daze/3.jpg[/IMG]
Any additional effort should be used to make more complicated lineart/shading, rather than tiny subtle brushstrokes that don't add to the painting as a whole. That was one of the mistakes I did when I was younger.
No takers?
uh, gosh, well, if you're offering, then sure!
[IMG]http://th04.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2013/110/c/e/ice_and_dust_by_bynineb-d62eupt.png[/IMG]
here's something i made about a month ago, but a couple things about her definitely seem off, any advice?
Alrighty then. Well the one thing I noticed first hand was the mouth:
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/blam/2.jpg[/IMG]
Aside from that there are just a few general things to look into the drawing.
I'd advise that you check up on your lightmap, there's a few inconsistencies with the shadows. I know it's not the most prevalent thing, but with a good lightmap you can get a lot more contrast and defined form.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/blam/3.jpg[/IMG]
As far as your comfort with anatomy will take you, I'd also suggest experimenting with more expressive posture and angles in the future. For example:
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/blam/4.jpg[/IMG]
Oh and I didn't note this but the neck seemed relatively thin and long compared to her body, she doesn't have that weird ridge thing everyone has:
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/blam/5.jpg[/IMG]
and I know it'd be too hard to change but the posture of her holding her gun seems like it'll break a wrist.
Anyhow, I hope that helps.
For a last time, would anyone like me to check their work? I just like threes.
You may not have much to go on but could you try this?
[QUOTE] [IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/rjqfj5.png[/IMG] [/QUOTE]
I realize most of her head is missing but i can't do hair so it'll stay that way until i learn a decent technique
Sure. There's not much to say in terms of small details that you can fix at this point (although you are missing some eyelashes), but in terms of the piece overall I'd suggest you work with a different method. With the one you're currently working with you're using too much of your brushstrokes working with little details instead of covering general shading and tones.
This is just one answer in a set of many but I think you should look into an airbrush + eraser painting style. Where you create a layer, paint with a large 'airbrush' brush, erase part of it, and then create another layer and repeat.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/vladnag/1.jpg[/IMG]
The soft edges can create effective gradient shadows, shading that looks natural on skin, and the style itself can be effective and fast if used correctly. I used it once as a placeholder to traditional painting methods so I could study human faces and contours faster.
Here's my take on it. Of course I'm not expecting you to work at this level, but I believe shading a face with large airbrush strokes is faster than with lots of tiny little hard brush strokes.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/vladnag/2.jpg[/IMG]
With more shading detail, a drawing is more visually comprehensive in terms of how much anatomical details you can put into it, i.e. the subtle bulges and protruding parts of the face.
Lastly, I really would like to help you on the hair, but it I'm not that great at rendering it. If you do happen to look into the airbrush + eraser method though, it's an adequate way to look into how you can shade a mass of hair.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/vladnag/3.jpg[/IMG]
Hope that helps.
based_artgod
heres a practice thingy i did
[IMG]http://puu.sh/36DdU.png[/IMG]
i dont know. sometimes i feel like my lineart makes my drawing look worse. heres the structure and other layers and stuff.
[IMG]http://puu.sh/36Dcp.png[/IMG]
no colors or shading yet. still trying to practice proper anatomy.
I'm working on this 3d model and I'm having a hard time understanding how the wrinkles on the shirt should look (front and back)
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/QmUKV09.png[/IMG]
you can see I already started on the chest and under the arms but it still looks wrong to me.
I'm also having trouble with how the hair should be highlighted/shaded
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/J3O4HG0.png[/IMG]
[URL="http://imgur.com/lB9fhjm.png"]Here[/URL]'s my original concept image of her
Well as a disclaimer, drawing cloth wrinkling is one of my worse skillsets so I will be working mostly from intuition, i.e. I won't have a great logical explanation.
I read somewhere though that you find the position of wrinkles by thinking of cloth as 'flowing' around the body, so if it takes any sharp turns or hit any bulges, they will be there. Kinetic movement and gravity also apparently affects them.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/Tovip/1.jpg[/IMG]
I thought the best example to work into your 3D model was the character design in The Walking Dead, so I pretty much copied Lee's shirt shading onto your model. It was a style of black lines and photoshop pen + gradient tool. I'm not sure if that's what you were expecting but I think it's a good exaggeration of where the wrinkles might be.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/Tovip/2.jpg[/IMG]
When you have 3D hair like that I was expecting that you'd use the program's cell shading tool of some sort, but if you plan to do that by hand then here's a tip. Figure out where light would be hitting the surface of the hair mass, then segregate the two areas with different tones. You could also shade the dark part of the hair with the gradient style if you wanted to.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/Tovip/3.jpg[/IMG]
Anyhow good luck, it's commendable how much effort it takes to make human models.
[QUOTE=dongalator;40875468]heres a practice thingy i did
[IMG]http://puu.sh/36DdU.png[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
When you're practicing anatomy, which I presume was the purpose of your piece, I wouldn't suggest you work with clean dark outlines. From my experience the nature of studying anatomy takes lots and lots of sketches and gesture drawings of many different poses. So it doesn't help to render lineart for one single pose when for the same time and effort you could've sketched one or two dozen. Regardless of whether you take your time or not on an anatomy study though, I'd suggest you work with a pencil-like brush on your tablet program or better yet just grab a pencil and paper. For a long while I just drew poses w/ crayon on my notebook since it was just a fast and easy medium.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/dongalator/5.jpg[/IMG]
In terms of nitpicking your drawing there are some things to look into.
I'm not trying to patronize your work, but I've taken the liberty of trying to render the face realistically under the impression that it'll help you see what might be off.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/dongalator/1.jpg[/IMG]
It's not really a big deal though since it's anatomy practice, but I hope it helps for future reference.
When you're analyzing anatomy I'd also suggest different styles of rendering the figure, trying to see what you don't normally see. For me it always helped to render form geometrically so proportions and parts are easier to gauge.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/dongalator/2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/dongalator/3.jpg[/IMG]
When you're practicing anatomy you can also use different 'skeletons', here are some of mine that helped me analyze different properties of the figure.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/dongalator/4.jpg[/IMG]
I'm know I didn't go too in depth with your drawing itself, but I really think you should just keep moving with studies. Focusing on one figure at a time probably won't help you in the long run unless you're working with a live model. Anyhow, good luck.
Not mine, but one my friend had done and we thought you may as well have a look. This was for one part of her A-Level work:
[IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/223486_10200258577962892_1694815983_n.jpg[/IMG]
Are you still red lining? I would love to get some real critique on something.
Yeah of course. To the extent that redline can help with the feedback anyways.
[QUOTE=Top Cat;40904928]Not mine, but one my friend had done and we thought you may as well have a look. This was for one part of her A-Level work:
[IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/223486_10200258577962892_1694815983_n.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Well, I believe one of the the more prominent attribute of your friend's piece is it's blunt content mixed in with a somewhat inconsistent style, but before I get into that there are just some anatomy stuff to mention.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/Top%20Cat/1.jpg[/IMG]
Also some notes about the snake and the hands, unless that was a specific style the piece was going for.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/Top%20Cat/2.jpg[/IMG]
The thing is, because the subject matter of the drawing carries a bit of a heavy serious tone (a large naked lady nailed to a fucking cross), I don't think the style of the piece compliments the content very well, giving it a bad first impression before the subject can even be assessed. The problem with the style is that it's inconsistent, e.g. textured grass and wood juxtaposed to a 'cartoon'-outlined figure, and it makes it a bit tacky. Instead of mixing different elements of digital artwork I feel like your friend should go all the way with one specific style.
I've taken the liberty of sketching up a few concepts that might work; if your friend has the time I suggest him/her to look into these styles if not incorporate them. I think a 'woodcut' style could compliment the religious-esque themes of the drawing fairly well, not having to romanticize it as much as I did. On the other hand an abstracting of the subject matter might handle the nudity and violence in a less blunt way, if you guys don't hate Picasso.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/Top%20Cat/3.jpg[/IMG]
Could also go blunt all the way w/ [URL="https://www.google.com/search?gs_rn=16&gs_ri=psy-ab&tok=2aYCDDwhgskn0fAaKjIWtg&suggest=p&pq=the+cat+lady&cp=13&gs_id=4&xhr=t&q=the+cat+lady+game&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.47534661,d.aWM&biw=1366&bih=667&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=-SqxUfj_OpT1qwGx5oG4Bg#facrc=_&imgrc=ieyU7VfnQ_wIGM%3A%3B3Oe_fn0RKOU3bM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.justadventure.com%252Ffiles%252Farticles%252F319%252F20130108182551.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.justadventure.com%252Farticle%252F319%252Freviews-the-cat-lady%3B800%3B600"]The Cat Lady[/URL] style , stencils, gritty photos, and avoiding outlines. Maybe look into some sort of collage style, I've never tried it before, but I imagine mixing different digi-art tools can be put to good use with that.
Anyhow that's about all I can say in the matter, I hope I helped.
Thanks, I would really appreciate the feedback.
[QUOTE=Boone_Sedford;40930623]Being a nice guy
[/QUOTE]
I imagine you've more than helped, that was some excellent feedback to read through despite it not being my work. So thank you very much!
My friend hasn't seen it yet but I imagine her response to you would be "What an utter babe".
Spoke to her, she's very happy. She said you've given her more constructive feedback than her teacher ever did and she thanks you very much for it. It's a tad too late as all the coursework and such has been sent off but still, it will remain helpful for any future work she desires to do. So, thanks again!
I appreciate it. You know I kinda made this thread because my studio art teachers were usually too broad in their feedback, anyhow I'm glad your friend liked it.
[QUOTE=Hanso;40941732]Thanks, I would really appreciate the feedback.
[IMG]http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/158/1/0/r_by_zekehimberry95-d686jdr.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
So there's nothing inherently wrong with your piece, any anatomical anomalies are quite subtle and could be excused with the exaggerated art style. But if I should redline I'll still point them out to you.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/Hanso/1.jpg[/IMG]
It would seem that the feet is correct in length, but take into consideration how much longer shoe thickness adds to that. The foot in the back should also be raised a bit on a tip toe as that leg is at an angle.
Before I analyse too much about a drawing's butt I'll just leave it with this Photoshop edit.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/Hanso/2.jpg[/IMG]
To me it seems unnatural that the pants press out at such an angle, unless you were going for that I suggest 'flattening out' the backside to the width of the leg or increasing the leg width to match the backside.
Either way I'd suggest raising the hips and reducing the calf length for anatomy sake.
I know it didn't make it to the final rendering but your background gave me the notion that the figure was under a point perspective view. It's just that I usually work that way w/ full body portraits and I'd suggest it too if you were looking for a more natural and 3D illustration.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/Hanso/3.jpg[/IMG]
Awesome, you gave me things to think about that I usually would pay no mind. Thanks a lot for putting time into giving me feedback man.
Np
My friend, as you know, absolutely loved your critique and she's begged me to ask you for more; if you please?
You're doing a great service!
[IMG] https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/577919_3543522182517_1285607779_n.jpg[/IMG]
Hey if people are interested in this thread then I will be too.
So uh, about your friend's drawing, I'm not going to fault it in terms of light or anatomy because I don't have the reference photo, but I am looking at the lineart and brushstrokes. I'm not a big fan of soft edge lines, I dunno if that's an issue with the software/settings, but I usually attribute that with concept sketches instead of a final rendering.
In terms of brushstrokes, skin shading seemed a bit iffy to me because there are prevalent 'inconsistencies' in the regions of shading; I know it's unnatural and boring to have solid tones for regions for shading, but instead of randomizing large basic brushstrokes to simulate pores and what not's, I personally use a mixture of textured brushes and the basic brushstrokes instead.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/Top%20Cat/5.jpg[/IMG]
I'm not actually sure if the somewhat inconsistent brushstrokes were deliberate, and I imagine Baron von Tease (or whatever her name actually is) doesn't actually show pores in her photoshoots, but I think looking into texture brushes can help your friend in the future.
The thing is, for a while, I tried to draw up concepts of what would I imagined would improve your friend's effort by using different rendering styles. The point was to substitute her use of soft lines but all in all they all kind of look mediocre anyways.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/Top%20Cat/4.jpg[/IMG]
They all have their goods and bads, but at the end of it I don't believe a rendering of the portrait photo can actually beat the photo itself without a complete re-imagining of it's content. I think your friend did an acceptable job for what it was, the soft lines can work in the original photo's possibly soft and seductive tone, or maybe I'm just having a brain fart today.
[QUOTE=Boone_Sedford;41008308]Excellent feedback[/QUOTE]
Once again, I'll thank you in advance before my friend sees it. She's only drawn these two 'realistic' photos, as in, of real people. Her usual style is manga/anime or however you wish to refer to it which seem significantly better. I imagine she just requires practice, but the feedback will do wonders in making that progression move at a better pace which is why she asked me to come to you again with that second image! So yes, thanks once more!
[QUOTE=Boone_Sedford;40888990]When you're practicing anatomy, which I presume was the purpose of your piece, I wouldn't suggest you work with clean dark outlines. From my experience the nature of studying anatomy takes lots and lots of sketches and gesture drawings of many different poses. So it doesn't help to render lineart for one single pose when for the same time and effort you could've sketched one or two dozen. Regardless of whether you take your time or not on an anatomy study though, I'd suggest you work with a pencil-like brush on your tablet program or better yet just grab a pencil and paper. For a long while I just drew poses w/ crayon on my notebook since it was just a fast and easy medium.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/dongalator/5.jpg[/IMG]
In terms of nitpicking your drawing there are some things to look into.
I'm not trying to patronize your work, but I've taken the liberty of trying to render the face realistically under the impression that it'll help you see what might be off.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/dongalator/1.jpg[/IMG]
It's not really a big deal though since it's anatomy practice, but I hope it helps for future reference.
When you're analyzing anatomy I'd also suggest different styles of rendering the figure, trying to see what you don't normally see. For me it always helped to render form geometrically so proportions and parts are easier to gauge.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/dongalator/2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/dongalator/3.jpg[/IMG]
When you're practicing anatomy you can also use different 'skeletons', here are some of mine that helped me analyze different properties of the figure.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/dongalator/4.jpg[/IMG]
I'm know I didn't go too in depth with your drawing itself, but I really think you should just keep moving with studies. Focusing on one figure at a time probably won't help you in the long run unless you're working with a live model. Anyhow, good luck.[/QUOTE]
hey, just want you to know that this helps a lot. and you were right, it was just an anatomy practice thing i did. i'll definitely be doing more of these, and i might post some more here too.
also that realistic rendition of the face was great, made me realize how hilarious my faces look :v:
Great thread top poster
So it seems like my course work is clearing up a bit. If perchance anyone would like to post/repost their work here, I'd be happy to look into it.
No poor soul wants to face judgement? Shame :(
My buddy saw me browsing the thread and asked me to post one of his arts
[t]http://i.imgur.com/9W7AiPs.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=kirby2112;42143228]My buddy saw me browsing the thread and asked me to post one of his arts
[t]http://i.imgur.com/9W7AiPs.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
So uh, I've been spending a bit of time on this, with debatable success, but here's what I saw:
At a first glace I really liked your friend's detailing on the piece. But the thing is, as much as those details work to bring each object into view, they don't necessarily work with one another. Because each object has it's own style and dimension, I find it slightly jarring to look from one object to another, i.e. from the flat stencil-like 'eye' to the 3D shaded tower to the fading out outlines of bricks. Because of that, the piece feels more like a notebook page filled with separate sketches than a single deliberate piece.
Another trait that contributes to the 'notebook' feel is a sense of unbalanced composition. One. there's a large negative space on the left side of the canvas, and two, when checking the rule of thirds, points of visual interest should be centered more near the intersection of the red lines when they aren't. Visual points may include the pupil of the 'eye', the 'brains of the octopus', and the like.
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/kirby2112/3.jpg[/img]
So what I've done is that I've drawn up some compositions that my answer the balancing issues. I get that my interpretation of the content has probably betrayed your friend's original premises, but hey...
Out of convenience I used a stencil style, but here I'm trying to point out that the piece can be read better if all of the content is integrated into a 3D space. Here the eye isn't 2D 'pasted' on the background, but reaches out through the horizon. Also, the position of the objects are more clearly defined from foreground to background, so the viewer doesn't have to switch from '2D' to '3D' all the time.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/kirby2112/1.jpg[/IMG]
Here's another composiotion, albiet a bit more tacky and metal album covery, but this is also another answer to that negative white space. In the original piece the tower is at an angle, but if that leaves empty spaces on the sides/corners of the canvas, maybe your friend could consider a different angle of perspective that has it cover up more of the canvas. This is a possible interpretation.
[IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4565878/visual%20critique/kirby2112/2.jpg[/IMG]
Anyhow, I like the original piece, great details and styles. It'd just be nice if they were more balanced and composed to the viewer.
Hope that helps.
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