Coolest/Ugliest Weapons V5 - Bullpup AKs are the best - General

So apparently some Canadians are trying to make the Type-97 (civilian QBZ-95) less ugly and more functional: [img]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/T97upper.jpg[/img] Aside from the clash of materials it looks pretty good so far. Doesn't fix some of the ergonomic issues though.

No it looks worse, The original looks fine.

[QUOTE=Jagur;42974344]No it looks worse, The original looks fine.[/QUOTE] They both look cheap and flimsy, and even the Chinese don't like it and developed an SKSish assault rifle to supplement it/replace it.

[QUOTE=Trekintosh;42961999]I saw the new Hunger Games movie yesterday. They use white P90s in it. They look very sharp in it. [t]http://www.imfdb.org/images/e/eb/HGCF_P90_1.jpg[/t] Only picture I could find of it, unfortunately. Also the pistol they use in it looks fantastic in these colors, too. [t]http://www.imfdb.org/images/a/ac/Thehungergamespistol.jpg[/t] I think it's a Vector.[/QUOTE] It bothered me how their uniforms didn't have any places for extra mags. But that was only a minor gripe with [B]that[/B] movie.

idk where to post this but i'm sure the russians would have weaponised this at some point [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Aeroflot_Mil_V-12_%28Mi-12%29_Groningen_Airport.jpg/800px-Aeroflot_Mil_V-12_%28Mi-12%29_Groningen_Airport.jpg[/t] [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] oh ya it was ment to transport ICBMs around

Preview from Shot Show: Polymer frame 1911 [IMG]http://photos.gunsamerica.com/d/13490-2/eaa-plastic-1911.jpg[/IMG] Polymer AR lower with a steel insert where the buffer tube connects, so that should fix the main issue with polymer lowers. [IMG]http://photos.gunsamerica.com/d/13466-2/ati-omni-ar-lower-polymer.jpg[/IMG] .22lr MP40 [IMG]http://photos.gunsamerica.com/d/13460-2/ati-german-gun.jpg[/IMG] 10mm auto 1911 from RIA (or .40S&W, article didn't specify) [IMG]http://photos.gunsamerica.com/d/13538-2/rockislandarmory-10mm.jpg[/IMG] And the coolest of all: M1 carbine in 9mm that takes Baretta M9 mags [IMG]http://photos.gunsamerica.com/d/13514-2/legacy-citadel-m9.jpg[/IMG]

[t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Mil_Mi-12_aug_2008_2.jpg/800px-Mil_Mi-12_aug_2008_2.jpg[/t] they essentially looked at their cargo plane, and some goverment official said "but can it fly like helicopter?" [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] [t]http://photos.gunsamerica.com/d/13514-2/legacy-citadel-m9.jpg[/t] i wanna say you could do more damage using that as a club

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42977689]Preview from Shot Show: Polymer frame 1911 [IMG]http://photos.gunsamerica.com/d/13490-2/eaa-plastic-1911.jpg[/IMG] Polymer AR lower with a steel insert where the buffer tube connects, so that should fix the main issue with polymer lowers. [IMG]http://photos.gunsamerica.com/d/13466-2/ati-omni-ar-lower-polymer.jpg[/IMG] .22lr MP40 [IMG]http://photos.gunsamerica.com/d/13460-2/ati-german-gun.jpg[/IMG] 10mm auto 1911 from RIA (or .40S&W, article didn't specify) [IMG]http://photos.gunsamerica.com/d/13538-2/rockislandarmory-10mm.jpg[/IMG] And the coolest of all: M1 carbine in 9mm that takes Baretta M9 mags [IMG]http://photos.gunsamerica.com/d/13514-2/legacy-citadel-m9.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE] Neither is really cool. 10mm 1911 [I]would[/I] be, if it wasn't because the Delta Elite already exist and is way cooler.

[QUOTE=Sableye;42977695] [t]http://photos.gunsamerica.com/d/13514-2/legacy-citadel-m9.jpg[/t] i wanna say you could do more damage using that as a club[/QUOTE] Don't underestimate 9x19 out of a 16+ inch barrel. [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Riller;42977740]Neither is really cool. 10mm 1911 [I]would[/I] be, if it wasn't because the Delta Elite already exist and is way cooler.[/QUOTE] Well I'm looking at it from a practical stand point. 10mm auto 1911 for sub $1,000. RIA has pretty high quality and reliable 1911 models for around $500, so a $500 or $600 1911 in 10mm auto, or even .40, would be rad as hell.

[QUOTE=Riller;42977740]Neither is really cool. 10mm 1911 [I]would[/I] be, if it wasn't because the Delta Elite already exist and is way cooler.[/QUOTE] The only reason to make a polymer frame, double stack 1911 is to help it compete with more modern designs that can hold 12, 13, 15 rounds of .45. There are a decent number of 10mm 1911 manufacturers out there now, and I believe Colt is making new 10mm Delta Elites. Edit: RIA makes the only 10mm 1911 under $1000, heck, its priced close to a G20. I'm curious how 10mm 1911s stand up to full power 10mm loads (Buffalo Bore, Underwood Ammo, etc...) and how they feel when firing those loads. G20 with a 22-24lb recoil spring soaks 'em up just fine.

[QUOTE=MAC21500;42978272]The only reason to make a polymer frame, double stack 1911 is to help it compete with more modern designs that can hold 12, 13, 15 rounds of .45. There are a decent number of 10mm 1911 manufacturers out there now, and I believe Colt is making new 10mm Delta Elites.[/QUOTE] I have said it many, many times. There is [I]absolutely no reason[/i] on this green earth of God's for one to modernize the 1911.

[QUOTE=Riller;42978306]I have said it many, many times. There is [I]absolutely no reason[/i] on this green earth of God's for one to modernize the 1911.[/QUOTE] So many said the same thing about the AK platform, and yet here we are with AK-107s and AK-12s... Hey, I didn't say I agreed with it, but from a marketing standpoint, someone will buy it. Maybe not the die-hard 1911 purists, but a 1911 enthusiast or someone who likes the 1911 over a Glock but wishes it had a higher capacity and less weight. There is always room for innovation, it drives firearms development. [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] Classy early MP-5 [img]https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/q71/1455154_10152020598121870_1706125451_n.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=MAC21500;42978471]So many said the same thing about the AK platform, and yet here we are with AK-107s and AK-12s... Hey, I didn't say I agreed with it, but from a marketing standpoint, someone will buy it. Maybe not the die-hard 1911 purists, but a 1911 enthusiast or someone who likes the 1911 over a Glock but wishes it had a higher capacity and less weight. There is always room for innovation, it drives firearms development.[/QUOTE] The AK is only 66 years old, sliightly older than the M16, and there has been no big breaks* in the assault rifle market since then. The 1911 is 102 years old, and pretty much every single feature it has is outdated by today's standards. *The AK's sights are still [I]absolute crap[/I]. The rifle design might only be 65ish years old, but the sight design is 122 years old, lifted straight off the Mosin Nagant. [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] And an [I]actually[/I] classy early MP5. [t]http://24.media.tumblr.com/5653e72de475062832cc331f7518b628/tumblr_mprxqdp9dq1rv2gk5o1_1280.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=MAC21500;42978471]So many said the same thing about the AK platform, and yet here we are with AK-107s and AK-12s... Hey, I didn't say I agreed with it, but from a marketing standpoint, someone will buy it. Maybe not the die-hard 1911 purists, but a 1911 enthusiast or someone who likes the 1911 over a Glock but wishes it had a higher capacity and less weight. There is always room for innovation, it drives firearms development.[/QUOTE] I think you're confusing what firearms development really means. Firearm development isn't making slight updates to a 100 year old gun. Firearm development is making new guns with improved systems, not the same gun.

[QUOTE=Riller;42978557]The AK is only 66 years old, sliightly older than the M16, and there has been no big breaks* in the assault rifle market since then. The 1911 is 102 years old, and pretty much every single feature it has is outdated by today's standards. *The AK's sights are still [I]absolute crap[/I]. The rifle design might only be 65ish years old, but the sight design is 122 years old, lifted straight off the Mosin Nagant. [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] And an [I]actually[/I] classy early MP5. [t]http://24.media.tumblr.com/5653e72de475062832cc331f7518b628/tumblr_mprxqdp9dq1rv2gk5o1_1280.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure Ivory and inlaid gold are classier than wood...

[QUOTE=MAC21500;42978680]I'm pretty sure Ivory and inlaid gold are classier than wood...[/QUOTE] No, not classy, just tackytical.

[QUOTE=MAC21500;42978680]I'm pretty sure Ivory and inlaid gold are classier than wood...[/QUOTE] You're confusing classy with ostentatious.

[QUOTE=NightWig;42978595]I think you're confusing what firearms development really means. Firearm development isn't making slight updates to a 100 year old gun. Firearm development is making new guns with improved systems, not the same gun.[/QUOTE] So tell me how modern pistols are all that different from the 1911 or a Hi-Power, since most modern (non-blowback) pistols use a tilting breech design. How are modern rifles all that different from each other, considering the majority of rifles (that aren't DI) are piston operated, rotating bolt designs. Most bolt guns still use the Mauser action. Striker fired designs aren't even new, nor is DI (yes, I realize that the AG-42B, while it is DI, uses a different action than an M16, which makes the M16 a further development of the DI operation.), so realistically, unless you come up with a new method of operation for a firearm, you're just updating an old design into a new gun. You may have [i]developed[/i] a new gun, but the action/principles of operation stay the same. The Kriss Vector is a new gun with an improved system <- Development The AK-107 is an old gun with an improved system <- Update I said innovation drives firearms development, not that updating is development... Didn't we do this already? like 40+ pages ago? [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=MegaChalupa;42978751]You're confusing classy with ostentatious.[/QUOTE] I agree, it would classify as ostentatious, but its no gold AK or druglord dress-up, which I would call tackytical.

[QUOTE=MAC21500;42978915]So tell me how modern pistols are all that different from the 1911 or a Hi-Power, since most modern (non-blowback) pistols use a tilting breech design. How are modern rifles all that different from each other, considering the majority of rifles (that aren't DI) are piston operated, rotating bolt designs. Most bolt guns still use the Mauser action. Striker fired designs aren't even new, nor is DI (yes, I realize that the AG-42B, while it is DI, uses a different action than an M16, which makes the M16 a further development of the DI operation.), so realistically, unless you come up with a new method of operation for a firearm, you're just updating an old design into a new gun. You may have [i]developed[/i] a new gun, but the action/principles of operation stay the same. The Kriss Vector is a new gun with an improved system <- Development The AK-107 is an old gun with an improved system <- Update I said innovation drives firearms development, not that updating is development... Didn't we do this already? like 40+ pages ago?[/QUOTE] Alright, first off; "Man, fuck the 1911, Hi-Power is where it's at, motherfucker. Plain-out better." - John Moses Browning (paraphrased). Second, the M16 or AK design hasn't been replaced with anything else so far because there's nothing else that's all that much better. However, the 1911 is outdated because everything else is better and every part of it is improved. The magazines are double-stacked now, the triggers are double-action/single-action now, not plain single-action. The pistols of today don't have twenty seven different safeties. The barrel link is utterly outdated and needless in all modern designs. Short story long, the 1911 has no right to still live outside of classic gun collections when the FNP-45 or USP or 226 or Browning HiPower exist. [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] You don't need to make a new design to make a modernized weapon, you just need to [I]actually[/I] improve it. Which the 1911 cannot be, because it is, quite simply, too horrendously outdated by all measures. It's a beautiful looking handgun, and most [I]certainly[/I] deserves it's place in history as the gun that settled how handguns work over all the other actions out there in the early 1900's, but that's it. It's a museum-piece and an antique range-gun, like the M1 Garand, the Luger P08 and the Mauser C96. It is [I]not[/I] a modern pistol, and no matter what you do short of tossing it in the bin and buying an FNP, it will never be a modern pistol.

[QUOTE=Riller;42978963]Alright, first off; "Man, fuck the 1911, Hi-Power is where it's at, motherfucker. Plain-out better." - John Moses Browning (paraphrased). Second, the M16 or AK design hasn't been replaced with anything else so far because there's nothing else that's all that much better. However, the 1911 is outdated because everything else is better and every part of it is improved. The magazines are double-stacked now, the triggers are double-action/single-action now, not plain single-action. The pistols of today don't have twenty seven different safeties. The barrel link is utterly outdated and needless in all modern designs. Short story long, the 1911 has no right to still live outside of classic gun collections when the FNP-45 or USP or 226 or Browning HiPower exist. [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] You don't need to make a new design to make a modernized weapon, you just need to [I]actually[/I] improve it. Which the 1911 cannot be, because it is, quite simply, too horrendously outdated by all measures. It's a beautiful looking handgun, and most [I]certainly[/I] deserves it's place in history as the gun that settled how handguns work over all the other actions out there in the early 1900's, but that's it. It's a museum-piece and an antique range-gun, like the M1 Garand, the Luger P08 and the Mauser C96. It is [I]not[/I] a modern pistol, and no matter what you do short of tossing it in the bin and buying an FNP, it will never be a modern pistol.[/QUOTE] How is giving it a double stack polymer frame not making the 1911 better? Plastic is the future, right? *Sarcsam I agree, and believe the Marine's adoption of the M45 (while constrained by fiscal limitations, among other things) was dumb. Its why I prefer an FNX-45 or G21 to a 1911 for a carry piece. There is another good question for you guys/gals: I prefer DA/SA or a Glock style (striker fired,safe action?) trigger for my carry piece; who among you thinks the single action of the 1911 (let alone the redundant safties) is a good idea for a carry gun and why? Who disagrees and why? I suppose this would also involve discussion of appropriate trigger weight...

[QUOTE=MAC21500;42979143]How is giving it a double stack polymer frame not making the 1911 better? Plastic is the future, right? *Sarcsam [/QUOTE] It's a moot upgrade, since a 1911 with polymer frame and double stack magazine is still an outdated weapon, since every pistol made post-1970 is still plain-out better.

[QUOTE=MAC21500;42978471]So many said the same thing about the AK platform, and yet here we are with AK-107s and AK-12s... Hey, I didn't say I agreed with it, but from a marketing standpoint, someone will buy it. Maybe not the die-hard 1911 purists, but a 1911 enthusiast or someone who likes the 1911 over a Glock but wishes it had a higher capacity and less weight. There is always room for innovation, it drives firearms development. [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] Classy early MP-5 [img]https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/q71/1455154_10152020598121870_1706125451_n.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] [IMG]http://www.imfdb.org/images/5/59/DSCN0141.jpg[/IMG] I once posted this overly ornate Sten Gun on this topic. Now that I think about it, it looks more like an overly ornate toilet part that you'd find somewhere in Buckingham Palace. [IMG]http://www.imfdb.org/images/0/07/DSCN0144.jpg[/IMG] This, I don't know what it would be. Some royal backscratcher or incredibly redundant sex toy.

[QUOTE=TorrentR;42979294][IMG]http://www.imfdb.org/images/5/59/DSCN0141.jpg[/IMG] I once posted this overly ornate Sten Gun on this topic. Now that I think about it, it looks more like an overly ornate toilet part that you'd find somewhere in Buckingham Palace.[/QUOTE] Well, I guess that fancy designs at least make Sten somewhat effective. In the home decoration department, that is.

[QUOTE=croguy;42979537]Well, I guess that fancy designs at least make Sten somewhat effective. In the home decoration department, that is.[/QUOTE] Sten always was effective as an emergency plumbing replacement part.

[QUOTE=Riller;42979595]Sten always was effective as an emergency plumbing replacement part.[/QUOTE] Unless you had to make it yourself, in which case it probably was your plumbing.

[QUOTE=croguy;42979843]Unless you had to make it yourself, in which case it probably was your plumbing.[/QUOTE] Which is why so many people insist it's a [I]shitty[/I] design. Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week.

[QUOTE=Riller;42979884]Which is why so many people insist it's a [I]shitty[/I] design. Thank you, thank you. I'll be here all week.[/QUOTE] The design schematics of the Sten make it seem like a real [I]pipe dream.[/I] :v: :v: :v:

[QUOTE=Riller;42979595]Sten always was effective as an emergency plumbing replacement part.[/QUOTE] Well, it sounds plausible since British machinegun crews did use the Vickers machinegun's water cooler to make tea.

[QUOTE=TorrentR;42979971]Well, it sounds plausible since British machinegun crews did use the Vickers machinegun's water cooler to make tea. [URL="http://i.imgur.com/a9lkyda.png"]also, here's an awesome top sekrit gun that i found somewhere[/URL][/QUOTE] I hope they did that [i][b]before[/b][/i] they urinated in them due to lack of water...

[QUOTE=MAC21500;42980023]I hope they did that [i][b]before[/b][/i] they urinated in them due to lack of water...[/QUOTE] Well, Bear Grylls did serve with the United Kingdom's army.