Coolest/Ugliest Weapons V5 - Bullpup AKs are the best - General

[QUOTE=Riller;42978557] *The AK's sights are still [I]absolute crap[/I]. The rifle design might only be 65ish years old, but the sight design is 122 years old, lifted straight off the Mosin Nagant. [/QUOTE] nooooooot 100% true (not the part about them being shit, but the part about them being 122 years old). M1891 mosin sights aren't the same as M91/30 sights. M1891 mosins didn't have a hood, and were forked ([i]almost[/i] like AR sights.) [img]http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/SightM9130F.jpg[/img] The above sight was the "CQC" sight and [img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-X4ozUXpmFJw/UhHG4ALbXjI/AAAAAAAABso/1W7PS-38wXI/s1600/mosin-sight2.2.jpg[/img] it had ladder sights (measured in some ancient Russian measuring system called "Arshini" or something) for longer distance shooting. So them god awful AK irons are only 83 years old, assuming they originated off the M91/30 [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] this has been Trunk Monkay's stupid and pointless technicalities tune in next time when I tell someone why the rifle they're holding is in fact an AKM, not an AK-47.

Anyone else wanna point out that on the AK-12 those rear sights aren't even built in anymore? They're rail mounted.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;42980474]Anyone else wanna point out that on the AK-12 those rear sights aren't even built in anymore? They're rail mounted.[/QUOTE] Oh, I know that much, but between the 91/30 and the AK107, they've been using the same sights. Which is still pretty damn impressively stupid. And mind you, compared to the 107, the -12 is actually a step backwards, mechanically. They dumped the counter-recoil system.

while the counter recoil system was pretty damn nifty, its not like .223 or 5.45 have significant amounts of recoil, even on an AK platform with that bigass piston. [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] no gimee a vepr in 54r with that counter recoil system and that'll be the coolest thing ever made

[QUOTE=Jagur;42974344]No it looks worse, The original looks fine.[/QUOTE] [img]http://www.imfdb.org/images/d/dd/QBZ-97-with-Stanag-mag.jpg[/img] The original has high sights, a single proprietary attachment point, and an awkward charging handle, magazine release, and safety. The modified version lowers the sights, adds a standard rail, and a non-reciprocating charging handle that can be positioned on either side. In a way it reminds me of the low profile FELIN FAMAS rifles [img]http://www.imfdb.org/images/a/af/FamasFelin.jpg[/img] Of course, as I said it doesn't fix all the issues, such as mag release and safety, and the materials are very clashing, but it looks like it's going in the right direction.

[QUOTE=Riller;42980512]Oh, I know that much, but between the 91/30 and the AK107, they've been using the same sights. Which is still pretty damn impressively stupid. And mind you, compared to the 107, the -12 is actually a step backwards, mechanically. They dumped the counter-recoil system.[/QUOTE] At least with the AN-94 it had diopter peep sights and a greater sight radius, I'm not sure why they didn't adapt that to future AKs. Edit: I think their thinking with the AK-12 was that the new comp. reduced perceived recoil and muzzle climb enough that it didn't need the extra weight and complexity of the balanced recoil system. That balanced recoil system is a far sight better and less complex than the AN-94; might not be able to place two rounds in the same hole, but the added accuracy of full-auto and semi-auto follow up shots are worth the weight. [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42980535]while the counter recoil system was pretty damn nifty, its not like .223 or 5.45 have significant amounts of recoil, even on an AK platform with that bigass piston. [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] no gimee a vepr in 54r with that counter recoil system and that'll be the coolest thing ever made[/QUOTE] There is still a significant, noticeable difference in recoil. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPkCfumrUYk[/media]

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;42980566] [img]http://www.imfdb.org/images/a/af/FamasFelin.jpg[/img] [/QUOTE] quick, someone explain to me why this never took off [QUOTE=Riller;42978963] It's a museum-piece and an antique range-gun, like the M1 Garand[/QUOTE] ok i know this was a fair amount of posts up but y'ont talk about my baby like that ok

[QUOTE=MAC21500;42980580] There is still a significant, noticeable difference in recoil. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPkCfumrUYk[/media][/QUOTE] right but 0+1 is still only 1. .223 and 5.45 don't have a lot of recoil. When it's up against your shoulder and you're in a proper shooters stance, it's more than controllable and the muzzle rise is nil.

[QUOTE=Saza;42980643] ok i know this was a fair amount of posts up but y'ont talk about my baby like that ok[/QUOTE] The 1911 or the M1? 'cause both are damn beautiful guns, and very good for their time period. Their time period being 70 years ago, and not today.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42980704]right but 0+1 is still only 1. .223 and 5.45 don't have a lot of recoil. When it's up against your shoulder and you're in a proper shooters stance, it's more than controllable and the muzzle rise is nil.[/QUOTE] Every little bit helps. I'd buy it.

[QUOTE=Riller;42980710]The 1911 or the M1? 'cause both are damn beautiful guns, and very good for their time period. Their time period being 70 years ago, and not today.[/QUOTE] the M1, which I still find a joy to shoot

[QUOTE=MAC21500;42980770]Every little bit helps. I'd buy it.[/QUOTE] I would too but if an AK12 and AK107 were both imported in and sold at the same price, I'd probably pick up the AK12 over the 107, just because the 12 is a lot more modern than the 107.

[QUOTE=Saza;42980926]the M1, which I still find a joy to shoot[/QUOTE] Oh, most certainly, most certainly. But I bet it's not something you'd want to lug into battle and use there, if you had the option of other, modern rifles in it's class, say an FN SCAR H; or even a G3, FAL or something. Which is what the U.S. military is actively doing with the 1911. There are weapons out there that are objectively, quantifiably better in every single aspect than even the most recent, high-tech versions of the 1911, and yet; they still issue the MEUSOC, for God-knows-what reason.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42980991]I would too but if an AK12 and AK107 were both imported in and sold at the same price, I'd probably pick up the AK12 over the 107, just because the 12 is a lot more modern than the 107.[/QUOTE] As a civilian shooter, I'd get the 107 hands down. It's a much more interesting design overall and also isn't pig ugly.

[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;42981091]As a civilian shooter, I'd get the 107 hands down. It's a much more interesting design overall and also isn't pig ugly.[/QUOTE] As a civvie shooter you would be better off with the AK-12. The ergonomics are much better, as it's pistol grip isn't designed for a 14 year old malnourished African child, it doesn't have that terrible lever safety, railed and hinged dust cover by default, collapsible and side folding stock by default, and it's got a charging handle that can be swapped to the left or right side, whichever side you prefer; all while retaining the classic AK style field-stripping style. That recoil reduction system is only going to be advantageous to you if you're using full auto fire, which you never will with a civvie 107, and it's just going to be more area to clean corrosive salts out of if you're using milsurp, which for a 5.45 rifle, you're gonna be using milsurp. Aesthetics shouldn't be taken into account when you're buying something like a rifle.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42981166]As a civvie shooter you would be better off with the AK-12. The ergonomics are much better, as it's pistol grip isn't designed for a 14 year old malnourished African child, it doesn't have that terrible lever safety, railed and hinged dust cover by default, collapsible and side folding stock by default, and it's got a charging handle that can be swapped to the left or right side, whichever side you prefer; all while retaining the classic AK style field-stripping style. That recoil reduction system is only going to be advantageous to you if you're using full auto fire, which you never will with a civvie 107, and it's just going to be more area to clean corrosive salts out of if you're using milsurp, which for a 5.45 rifle, you're gonna be using milsurp. Aesthetics shouldn't be taken into account when you're buying something like a rifle.[/QUOTE] If I shoot for a hobby the practicality of a weapon means a lot less to me than it would if I were in the military. Why would I want an AK-12 when there are plenty of other firearms out there that accomplish everything it does. If I wanted to buy a firearm for practical purposes, why would I want an AK-12 when the SCAR, BREN, ACR, and the like exist. What it boils down to is would I rather have an AK-74 in a different shell or a unique weapon in an AK-74's shell.

[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;42981422]If I shoot for a hobby the practicality of a weapon means a lot less to me than it would if I were in the military. Why would I want an AK-12 when there are plenty of other firearms out there that accomplish everything it does. If I wanted to buy a firearm for practical purposes, why would I want an AK-12 when the SCAR, BREN, ACR, and the like exist. What it boils down to is would I rather have an AK-74 in a different shell or a unique weapon in an AK-74's shell.[/QUOTE] Because a SCAR, BREN (which isn't even avaliable for export yet anyways), and an ACR will push you at least 3 grand to finish outfitting it, where as an AK-12 will probably cost $1,500 to completely outfit at the most. Yeah Scars and shit are great rifles but they're insanely fucking expensive for what they are. Plus perhaps you prefer a AK magazine style rather than an AK one. Perhaps you also like the convenience of an insanely easy field stripping and unmatched reliability.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42981472]Because a SCAR, BREN (which isn't even avaliable for export yet anyways), and an ACR will push you at least 3 grand to finish outfitting it, where as an AK-12 will probably cost $1,500 to completely outfit at the most. Yeah Scars and shit are great rifles but they're insanely fucking expensive for what they are. Plus perhaps you prefer a AK magazine style rather than an AK one. Perhaps you also like the convenience of an insanely easy field stripping and unmatched reliability.[/QUOTE] For what's going to end up a range toy, I'd still rather have the more interesting design. Even if it's harder to field strip and clean, I'm a civilian, I have the time to play around inside my gun, and it'd be a hell of a lot more fun than messing with the AK-12.

SiG556 and his great Grandfather [img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5b8gzZ9Ej1r1issko1_1280.jpg[/img] A guy took apart his AKM and SiG556 and now he can't figure out which part goes to what rifle [img]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m56m6tsUDa1qltt4mo1_1280.jpg[/img] [img]http://31.media.tumblr.com/6afdc30396978fc287a2baa53c5ea765/tumblr_mhvv0gHZ841qg2p2fo1_500.jpg[/img] Sig did this promotion a while back, sold these cases with a P226 with a neat camo alongside a SiG556 with a neat camo with a rad custom case. I wanted one so bad but I just didn't have several thousand dollars to spend on it [img]http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me60scLMu81r9khx4o2_1280.jpg[/img]

huh all last page's talk about sights made me wonder how good this [t]http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRAKC3xbrkRxz0WqpsyKVJotIwoo9VKWoR3pH2_ZcS_BQUos1HzZQ[/t] was at aiming with both a carry handle and a magazine in the way

The sights are offset to the left. Unless you mean how well it aims despite it being offset, idk.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42981472]Because a SCAR, BREN (which isn't even avaliable for export yet anyways), and an ACR will push you at least 3 grand to finish outfitting it, where as an AK-12 will probably cost $1,500 to completely outfit at the most. Yeah Scars and shit are great rifles but they're insanely fucking expensive for what they are. [b]Plus perhaps you prefer a AK magazine style rather than an AK one.[/b] Perhaps you also like the convenience of an insanely easy field stripping and unmatched reliability.[/QUOTE] Did you mean to say "AR" in place of one of those "AK"s or what? [editline]25th November 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Saza;42980643]quick, someone explain to me why this never took off[/QUOTE] Because unfortunately it's still a FAMAS.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;42982083]Did you mean to say "AR" in place of one of those "AK"s or what?[/QUOTE] yep, dyslexia's a bitch

Never thought I'd see the day... H&K is going to sell us worthless civillians a greebled-up G36! For $4,000! I kid, I kid, there is no price yet, but if it is anyways similarly priced with other H&K rifles, it will rape your wallet. [url]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...-civilian-g36/[/url] "In Europe the gun will be called the HK243 and in the USA it will be marketed as the HK293. The rifle is made with parts from the G36, but the bolt and the .223-chambered barrel design are unique. The reason for this is that gun companies in Germany cannot sell “weapons of war” to civilians. This gun has been sufficiently changed that it cannot be easily converted to a military-stye fully-automatic G36. The rifle will feature a quad rail and a STANAG magazine well that accepts standard AR-15 magazine. Four different types of stocks will be offered, a short fixed stock, a long fixed stock (hunting/SLR style?) and two types of adjustable stocks. There will be four different model (Compact, Kurtz (Short), Sporter and Long) which vary by barrel length from 8.9″ – 18.8″. It is not clear if H&K actually plan on selling the shorter barrel (SBR) versions in the USA, or if they are just apply for approval in case they ever wish to in the future." [img]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/HK243-660x247.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/HK293-660x244.jpg[/img]

Does it come with the power to melt?

[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;42982367]Does it come with the power to melt?[/QUOTE] Yep, it will explode and melt when you fire 5.56 out of its .223 chamber, because 5.56 is too military for us worthless civilians. Hopefully its a .223 Wylde chamber.

10/10 ergonomic mag release position would push again

Looks like this was what became of that G36 they showed at DSEi: [img]http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/IMAG0286.jpg[/img]

Considering an SL-8 cost like $1,300 at retail, and thats a butchered and broken rifle in comparison to an actual G-36, the actual one that they'll probably never retail anyways will probably cost 2 or 3 grand. Fuckin HK

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42982577]Considering an SL-8 cost like $1,300 at retail, and thats a butchered and broken rifle in comparison to an actual G-36, the actual one that they'll probably never retail anyways will probably cost 2 or 3 grand. Fuckin HK[/QUOTE] At least it takes STANAG mags and not the $50 a pop HK G36 mags... "Jim Schatz, a 20 year employee has said that, and I quote "You will like the pricing" in a post on HK pro. He has also given some other clues about stuff being released at shot: 1. It/they are new and folks have been asking for it/them. 2. You will like the pricing on one or more items. 3. There is nothing else like it/them on the market. 4. One key item will be available soon (weeks) after SHOT Show (unlike HKM4/HK416/MR556, MR762, HK45, etc.) 5. HK is listening. 6. Its not a G11! 7. You may spend some money in 2014."