Coolest/Ugliest Weapons V5 - Bullpup AKs are the best - General

[QUOTE=Lone_Star94;40955824]It would work if a benelli m4 was put in there instead of the Rem 1100[/QUOTE] It was only originally designed around the Remmy, when HS bought the design they started manufacturing them built ontop of Flite Kings, and even then the design had some other flaws. Also the design predates the M4 considerably, it dates back to the 1950s. [editline]9th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=M.Ciaster;40956150]Oh, so that's what it's called! I saw it in an episode of Miami Vice and was wondering what it was. Looks like something a plumber with a lot of spare cut up pipes put together.[/QUOTE] It's full name is the High Standard Model 10, it was designed by a police sergeant for use by SWAT.

M14 time [video=youtube;tDqbkSJRgnY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDqbkSJRgnY[/video]

That being said the design had some serious flaws, for one thing the magazine tube was short, only held 4 rounds, they made an extension that upped it to 6 but those weren't standard, the earlier models also had a tendency to damage the integral flashlight when fired. The later 10B model fixed this by simply removing the flashlight: [img]http://www.imfdb.org/images/a/a1/High_standard_10_SHG.jpg[/img] This one also has a removable carrying handle and flip-up frontsight. They also couldn't be fired from the left shoulder because (when it cycled correctly, which did not happen as often as it should) they ejected casings with quite a lot of force right into the faces of left-handed users. You can see right on the picture "Do not shoot from left shoulder". Then of course the biggest problem was that the gas system did not work well, the owner's manuals said it was designed only for use with magnum or high brass rounds but even with the correct loads cycling was iffy. [editline]9th June 2013[/editline] The M14 killed my automerge

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;40956703]That being said the design had some serious flaws, for one thing the magazine tube was short, only held 4 rounds, they made an extension that upped it to 6 but those weren't standard, the earlier models also had a tendency to damage the integral flashlight when fired. The later 10B model fixed this by simply removing the flashlight: This one also has a removable carrying handle and flip-up frontsight. They also couldn't be fired from the left shoulder because (when it cycled correctly, which did not happen as often as it should) they ejected casings with quite a lot of force right into the faces of left-handed users. You can see right on the picture "Do not shoot from left shoulder". Then of course the biggest problem was that the gas system did not work well, the owner's manuals said it was designed only for use with magnum or high brass rounds but even with the correct loads cycling was iffy. [editline]9th June 2013[/editline] The M14 killed my automerge[/QUOTE] That thing looks like the bastard child of a Remington 870 and a slamfire flaregun.

looks like a supersoaker

Here have some Australia: [img]http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/smg/australia/1287828138.jpg[/img] The Owen Machine Carbine, or Owen SMG for short. Actually one of the better SMGs of the second world war, was originally designed for .22, then was tested in 9mm, .38-200, and .45, and entered production in 9mm. Served Australia through World War 2 and remained in use up to Vietnam. An interesting feature for some of the older SMGs is that it was select-fire, capable of semi and fully automatic.

[t]http://puu.sh/3bYFe.jpg[/t] T20 prototype rifle. Basically an M1 Garand that can take BAR magazines. I've thought this was cool ever since I played Cold as Hell mod for DooM 2

[QUOTE=PaChIrA;40962734][t]http://puu.sh/3bYFe.jpg[/t] T20 prototype rifle. Basically an M1 Garand that can take BAR magazines. I've thought this was cool ever since I played Cold as Hell mod for DooM 2[/QUOTE] IIRC the original specs for the M1 included modified BAR magazines, but some asshat in the army was concerned that incorporating mags into a rifle would promote rapid ammo expenditure and horrible marksmanship, thus Mr. Garand made the rifle with en-bloc clips instead. Once again proving that bias and politics can ruin just about everything.

Ammo expenditure is an actual problem though, and it was very well proven in Vietnam. The reason most/all modern M16 variants are safe-semi-burst is because after Vietnam it was estimated that it took close to ~25,000 rounds from an M-16 to kill a single enemy. 200,000 rounds overall across all weapons platforms.

[QUOTE=snapshot32;40962879]IIRC the original specs for the M1 included modified BAR magazines, but some asshat in the army was concerned that incorporating mags into a rifle would promote rapid ammo expenditure and horrible marksmanship, thus Mr. Garand made the rifle with en-bloc clips instead. Once again proving that bias and politics can ruin just about everything.[/QUOTE] But the M1 Garand has awesome en bloc clips

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;40962974]Ammo expenditure is an actual problem though, and it was very well proven in Vietnam. The reason most/all modern M16 variants are safe-semi-burst is because after Vietnam it was estimated that it took close to ~25,000 rounds from an M-16 to kill a single enemy. 200,000 rounds overall across all weapons platforms.[/QUOTE] Except modern tactics are based on fire and movement, there is really no way to avoid such ammo consumption

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;40962974]Ammo expenditure is an actual problem though, and it was very well proven in Vietnam. The reason most/all modern M16 variants are safe-semi-burst is because after Vietnam it was estimated that it took close to ~25,000 rounds from an M-16 to kill a single enemy. 200,000 rounds overall across all weapons platforms.[/QUOTE] The thing about this though was we had an opportunity to allow for both faster reloading and more ammo capacity yet some dickbag didn't like the idea because of 'muh merksmenship' and 'muh ammo-cunservation' on an already [I]select-fire[/I] platform. But ultimately Garand had to alter his designs to appease the same retards that would adopt the M14 around a decade later. The point I'm trying to make is that we had an excellent and almost perfect battle-rifle design yet it was dropped for something less effective that could have even cost more lives just because someone had an opinion. And I don't like that. [QUOTE=PaChIrA;40963035]But the M1 Garand has awesome en bloc clips[/QUOTE] I like[B][I] 'ping'[/I][/B] as much as the next guy, but on that note BM 59's make me moist.

[QUOTE=download;40963060]Except modern tactics are based on fire and movement, there is really no way to avoid such ammo consumption[/QUOTE] While this is true, an M16 has a really high fire rate on full auto, with a 30 round mag a few seconds of trigger pull and it's empty. It's 3 round bursts lets it hold adequate suppressing fire while maintaining accuracy and reducing ammo consumption. [QUOTE=snapshot32;40963106]The thing about this though was we had an opportunity to allow for both faster reloading and more ammo capacity yet some dickbag didn't like the idea because of 'muh merksmenship' and 'muh ammo-cunservation' on an already [I]select-fire[/I] platform. But ultimately Garand had to alter his designs to appease the same retards that would adopt the M14 around a decade later. [/QUOTE] Note that the M14, an originally select fire weapon, was a failure of a weapon. It's recoil was absolutely uncontrollable, even with the modified pistol grip versions. Theres a reason it was dropped in favor of M-16's and was redesignated as a DMR instead of a main infantry rifle. Debatably, you can load an M1 with an enblonc faster than you can reload an M14 with a new mag.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;40963392] Note that the M14, an originally select fire weapon, was a failure of a weapon. It's recoil was absolutely uncontrollable, even with the modified pistol grip versions. Theres a reason it was dropped in favor of M-16's and was redesignated as a DMR instead of a main infantry rifle. Debatably, you can load an M1 with an enblonc faster than you can reload an M14 with a new mag.[/QUOTE] But the topping-off process with an en-bloc is a pain in the ass, where as you could simply swap mags or load individual cartridges through the top down or even use a stripper-clip. The point I'm attempting to make is that we had essentially a more effective option yet opted for something less because of ill-founded concerns. At least we didn't pick the Johnson rifle.

[QUOTE=snapshot32;40962879]IIRC the original specs for the M1 included modified BAR magazines, but some asshat in the army was concerned that incorporating mags into a rifle would promote rapid ammo expenditure and horrible marksmanship, thus Mr. Garand made the rifle with en-bloc clips instead. Once again proving that bias and politics can ruin just about everything.[/QUOTE] Early Lee-Enfields, Springfields, and similar rifles had magazine cutoffs, forcing them to function as a single-shot rifle to limit ammunition consumption, with the magazine kept as a reserve to repel a charge or for a close-range assault. Wehrmacht soldiers armed with the G41 and G43 rifles were given mostly stripper clips, even though the rifles had detachable magazines, because issuing troops with large numbers of magazines led to excessive ammunition consumption. Sometimes the weapon itself has to dictate doctrine to troops that may not follow the instructions they're given. The removal of automatic fire on the M16 is the perfect example.

[QUOTE=snapshot32;40963482]But the topping-off process with an en-bloc is a pain in the ass, where as you could simply swap mags or load individual cartridges through the top down or even use a stripper-clip. The point I'm attempting to make is that we had essentially a more effective option yet opted for something less because of ill-founded concerns. At least we didn't pick the Johnson rifle.[/QUOTE] Believe it or not sometimes actual generals make better decisions than arm chair generals. The M1 Garand performed like a dream through out the war and I've never heard of any actual problems coming from enblanc clips. Like Catbarf said, troops with the G41 and G43's weren't given multiple magazines, it's the same deal with troops with the SVT40.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;40965094]The M1 Garand performed like a dream through out the war and I've never heard of any actual problems coming from enblanc clips. [/QUOTE] To be fair, most of the people who had a problem with the Garand clip's ping sound didn't live to tell you about it.

[QUOTE=notrabies;40965457]To be fair, most of the people who had a problem with the Garand clip's ping sound didn't live to tell you about it.[/QUOTE] That has been disproven so many times now, why do people still bother bringing it up?

[QUOTE=catbarf;40964932]Early Lee-Enfields, Springfields, and similar rifles had magazine cutoffs, forcing them to function as a single-shot rifle to limit ammunition consumption, with the magazine kept as a reserve to repel a charge or for a close-range assault. Wehrmacht soldiers armed with the G41 and G43 rifles were given mostly stripper clips, even though the rifles had detachable magazines, because issuing troops with large numbers of magazines led to excessive ammunition consumption. Sometimes the weapon itself has to dictate doctrine to troops that may not follow the instructions they're given. The removal of automatic fire on the M16 is the perfect example.[/QUOTE] The cutoff was a completely optional setting to the weapon,it was not forced to be used as-is while conversely, there are no hi-cap en-blocs. Also, you could just as easily issue 2 or 3 mags and some stripperclips, as a matter of a fact, the T20 and M14 can accept stripperclips. It's just completely arbitrary and asinine to restrict a weapons full capabilities for the sake of logistics and popular belief. [QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;40965094]Believe it or not sometimes actual generals make better decisions than arm chair generals. The M1 Garand performed like a dream through out the war and I've never heard of any actual problems coming from enblanc clips. Like Catbarf said, troops with the G41 and G43's weren't given multiple magazines, it's the same deal with troops with the SVT40.[/QUOTE] I never stated the en-bloc provided problems, I said it would be harder to top off an en-bloc than say swap mags or use a stripper-clip.

[QUOTE=notrabies;40965457]To be fair, most of the people who had a problem with the Garand clip's ping sound didn't live to tell you about it.[/QUOTE] iirc they used that ping to their advantage eventually by intentionally making the clip ping to make the enemy pop their heads out and unload on them.

[QUOTE=asteroidrules;40965482]That has been disproven so many times now, why do people still bother bringing it up?[/QUOTE] Did some research, you're completely correct.

[QUOTE=TehAgentGuy;40965603]iirc they used that ping to their advantage eventually by intentionally making the clip ping to make the enemy pop their heads out and unload on them.[/QUOTE] AFAIK it's all an urban legend. The ping might be fun and distinctive on the range but on a battlefield it would be 100% impossible to hear for the man firing the rifle, let alone for the enemy any distance away, and even if it was heard it's not much of a liability when you have ten buddies who aren't out of ammo yet.

German soldiers have said that in a pitched battle you can't tell when a Garand is out. The ping is quit quiet when there's tons of other firing going on and you have no ear protection. If you did, you could hear it, but well, they didn't.

[QUOTE=notrabies;40965457]To be fair, most of the people who had a problem with the Garand clip's ping sound didn't live to tell you about it.[/QUOTE] Thats complete bullshit.

Have some BM-59 [img]http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea2010/001-5.jpg[/img] This BM-59 Nigerian model is for sale to the tune of a cool $5,000 [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img28/8903/nigerianbm59.jpg[/img] [QUOTE=PaChIrA;40962734][t]http://puu.sh/3bYFe.jpg[/t] T20 prototype rifle. Basically an M1 Garand that can take BAR magazines. I've thought this was cool ever since I played Cold as Hell mod for DooM 2[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TehAgentGuy;40965603]iirc they used that ping to their advantage eventually by intentionally making the clip ping to make the enemy pop their heads out and unload on them.[/QUOTE] the ping isn't actually very loud, especially in a battlefield setting. it's drowned out by the yelling and shooting I wouldn't want to try picking off enemies from a bush with an M1 but it makes a fine battle rifle.

-snip, fixed- M1 pattern rifles always look sexy with pistol grips.

EBR Garand [img]http://i309.photobucket.com/albums/kk390/M1A96819/m1-2.gif?a=64[/img] [QUOTE=asteroidrules;40965734]-snip, fixed- M1 pattern rifles always look sexy with pistol grips.[/QUOTE]

not enough revolver appreciation [img]http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/344731000/344731124/pix748065362.jpg[/img] [I]i'm going to need eight new pairs of underwear[/I]

Clearly this is the best revolver. [img]http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/1264/aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaax.jpg[/img]