No-Porn Forever - are you a bad enough dude to reboot?

[Viva_]

I'm out. I'm still young and i already managed to significantly cut down my masturbation frequency. I have a perfectly fine amount of confidence within myself with an understandable amount of apprehension behind it; i can and have been managing my depression which is stemming from other issues, and i've always been anxious and paranoid since child hood which just started from my self confidence which has gotten significantly better in the last year alone.

But then again i'm not the kind of person who faps 20 times a week. I don't even do half of that.

[install gentoo]

My depression stopped and I became a hell of a lot better socially not long after I started masturbating. What now, Gary Wilson?

[Disgruntled]

I ain't doin' shit. :colbert:

[KorJax]

Meh to me this is like Soda addiction. if you are doing loads of it of course it's not gonna do wonders for your health.

I posted this in the news node thread but I don't really *need* this, but if I ever get to the point where my libido is dead, I have ED and I'm bad with sex/people I'll try, as there is a recovery that happens. I can't see that happening anytime soon though. I'm not exactly a porn addict, which was helped by growing up in a house with only 1 computer and 5 people using it. I'd be lucky to get porn-private time more than one day out of the week. Especially was helped by me being in the BSA which had me going for several days without fapping on a monthly basis.

Now that I'm 22 and have access to porn 24/7.. I use it maybe 2-4 times a week? And I can easily just not use porn at all for extended periods (a few weeks for example).

[disseminate]

[QUOTE=SilverBullet;35598980]Personally I don't live for the future, I don't live for the past, I live for right now. I don't really care if it will make me slightly happier over time. We all have one little life and then it's over. I would rather enjoy the now than abstain from pleasure to get a bit of happiness in the future. People act like they are going to live forever, when really, you could die today. Porn is one of the many pleasures of my life and I don't plan on taking it away any time soon. I guess you could call me a hedonist, but with good reason.

I feel from my own experience that all claims made in the op are wrong, but that is just my opinion. I feel that any effect from abstaining is a placebo.
I live life to enjoy it, not pointlessly put rules to keep myself in line.

I have abstained from porn for months before and not much changed. I was happier when I wasn't abstaining. And I don't see why you call addiction unhealthy, or why you would even call watching porn frequently an addiction, an addiction is something you become a slave to and more than likely get notable withdrawals from. I can stop porn just like that, but I see no point as I have done it before without much effect. And no, dopamine and pleasure DO NOT link directly with sexuality as you can get non-sexual pleasure from lots of things, and dopamine releases from lots of things.[/QUOTE]

Good for you - I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors. If you're happier using porn, go for it. Dopamine isn't directly linked to sexuality, but sexuality is linked directly to dopamine. Sexuality releases more dopamine than mundane activity.

[QUOTE=Splurgy_A;35599194]Porn may well classically condition people to use more porn, in the same way masturbation in general classically conditions people to masturbate more often. But there's obviously other factors at play stopping most people watching 20 hours of porn a day and rubbing their penis raw. You can't say that watching porn -> reward circuits -> addiction any more than you can say having a wank -> reward circuits -> addiction or eating a yummy chocolate bar -> reward circuits -> addiction.
You admit the suggested links between porn and social anxiety are "debatable". Well, I'd argue that they're a damn sight more shaky than just "debatable", but even so your OP presents the following as facts:

If he's not anti-masturbation, surely you must question his entire stance re: the Coolidge effect? I mean, I see more attractive people in a day than my ancestors would have in a lifetime because I live in a very big city and travel about a lot, plus I see pictures of people on TV and in the cinema and on the internet. If he's suggesting that porn is the issue here, does he assume the Coolidge effect goes away if you're cracking one out over that hottie you saw on the bus? I hope he's not suggesting you should masturbate without thinking sexual thoughts/being sexually aroused, because I believe that's classed as compulsive masturbation and is in fact a bit dodgy.
In regards to your final point, you're likely the victim of a confirmation bias. Personally, when I've given up wanking/porn for a bit as a personal challenge, I find myself incredibly horny and thus more likely to do something sexually that I regret afterwards (e.g. fucking a stranger). The people who sing the praises of the anti-porn ideology are the ones who've already been sold on it, who are thus more likely to link every success following it with the anti-porn thing itself.[/QUOTE]

You're comparing the dopamine release experienced from eating chocolate to the dopamine release experienced from sexuality.
Visually seeing people is not the same as sexual mate selection.
I may be subject to confirmation bias, but if I'm not, I'll regret it.

[QUOTE=SilverBullet;35599375]My mistake, so you are saying looking at porn is like beer?
If anything that is even more stupid.

I don't see how looking at an image and fapping is SO different than fapping to an image in your mind.

Fapping without thinking sexual thoughts is just plain weird. Why would you condone that?[/QUOTE]

I'm saying softcore porn vs. hardcore porn is still porn regardless of content. I don't condone fapping without sexual thoughts. It's not about looking at one image, it's about looking at hundreds.

[QUOTE=SilverBullet;35599609]They said you could fap as much as you want to, just don't have any sexual thoughts, which makes no sense.[/QUOTE]

...except you can have sexual thoughts

[QUOTE=SilverBullet;35599918]Lets look at this again.

Claim 1 says that we will have "properly" regulated dopamine levels. What defines it as "properly" working? When I abstained from porn before it never lead to this, and i completely disagree with it.
Claim 2 pertains to the claim that fapping too much clouds the process of the prefrontal cortex, which in my experience is a total lie. I am known to be an excellent arguer and infact enjoy arguing. My intellectual skills are a bit above average and my thoughts usually feel organized. I even lucid dream almost nightly which is directly linked to how well your prefontal cortex works.
Claim 3 I can't really say anything about this, as I have never experienced this, I can't say weather I will encounter it later in life or not.
Claim 4 says it will make you more sociable? That is bullshit, my brother probably has barely ever looked at porn and he is less sociable that I.
Claim 5 I can say with confidence that I have never experienced any change in confidence when stopping porn. Can't say much about that one.
Claim 6 is a very good way to make people believe that it's working, because more energy is a very vague thing to say.
it's one of the easiest things to make people believe when working with placebos.
Claim 7 I can't say much either, because I barely ever have problems with anxiety. I am a pretty relaxed virtually all day every day.

Claim 1 is kind of stupid. Watching porn frequently is as much as an addiction as playing video games frequently.
Claim 2 is wrong in my case, I have stopped and it didn't take much either.[/QUOTE]

Your refute for Claim 1 implies that usage of porn causes excessive dopamine release, and unless you have a dopamine level readout on the side of your head, I don't understand how you know that your level of dopamine changed.
Your refute for Claim 2 implies hypofrontality. You can read more here: [url]http://yourbrainonporn.com/l-gray-matter-brains-control-center-linked-ability-process-reward-2011[/url]
Your refute for Claim 4 is a logical fallacy in that it states that "because A is B, C cannot be B". Lack of sociability has no exclusive cause.
Your refute for Claim 5 is your case and cannot speak for the majority.
Your refute for Claim 6 isn't refuting anything
Your refute for Claim 7 is, once again, your case and does not reflect any majority.

Your refute for Claim 1 is attempting to link porn viewing to addiction, not the recovery time.
Your refute for Claim 2 clearly means you haven't faced any addiction whatsoever and thus every point you have is invalid...?

[QUOTE=Splurgy_A;35600061]I personally think he's not arguing those points very well, but surely to claim "People who watch porn get addicited to it and it makes them less sociable and less likely to be successful in bed" is pretty arrogant, especially with nothing much to back it up with.

[editline]16th April 2012[/editline]

Do you see what this thread is mainly filled with?
"I'm feeling pretty depressed and lonely, so I'll join in."
It's preying on vulnerable people, exactly like a cult.[/QUOTE]

I've shown you the independantly verified journal articles - what do you mean I have 'nothing to back it up with'? How am I preying on [b]anyone[/b] in the thread? Do you think I'm some sort of porn troll or something?

[QUOTE=Hullu V3;35600130]Is sex allowed?[/QUOTE]

Yes

[QUOTE=Splurgy_A;35600175]Why are you asking this? Would you genuinely consider going abstinent because some random bloke said it would fix all your troubles?[/QUOTE]

I've provided plenty of sources.

[SilverBullet]

[QUOTE=install gentoo;35600421]My depression stopped and I became a hell of a lot better socially not long after I started masturbating. What now, Gary Wilson?[/QUOTE]

agreed, when I think about it masturbating makes the day in general happier.
And it lets me be a lot more relaxed which leads to less tension in social situations.

[JohnWayne007]

Just deleted all of my porn. Lets hope this wasn't a huge mistake.

[disseminate]

[QUOTE=SilverBullet;35600602]agreed, when I think about it masturbating makes the day in general happier.
And it lets me be a lot more relaxed which leads to less tension in social situations.[/QUOTE]

~you can fap you just can't use porn~

[crazycombine]

You know, masturbation is a natural thing done by even by the early humans.

Heck, monkeys even do it today, imagine the Homo Erectus back then.

In my opinion, masturbation is only harmful if you over do it until its raw.

I know what the OP means by porn being misleading but there are some people

that avoid the manufactured things. While still enjoying the more realistic type

with the attitude "The real thing is going to be very different, it might even be painful."

[disseminate]

[QUOTE=crazycombine;35600653]You know, masturbation is a natural thing done by even by the early humans.

Heck, monkeys even do it today, imagine the Homo Erectus back then.

In my opinion, masturbation is only harmful if you over do it until its raw.[/QUOTE]

yep, that's the general consensus

[Microcosm]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/tcGnV.gif[/IMG]

I give you guys pledging your porn to the bin a month tops.

[SilverBullet]

[QUOTE=Disseminate;35600601]Good for you - I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors. If you're happier using porn, go for it. Dopamine isn't directly linked to sexuality, but sexuality is linked directly to dopamine. Sexuality releases more dopamine than mundane activity.

You're comparing the dopamine release experienced from eating chocolate to the dopamine release experienced from sexuality.
Visually seeing people is not the same as sexual mate selection.
I may be subject to confirmation bias, but if I'm not, I'll regret it.

I'm saying softcore porn vs. hardcore porn is still porn regardless of content. I don't condone fapping without sexual thoughts. It's not about looking at one image, it's about looking at hundreds.

...except you can have sexual thoughts

Your refute for Claim 1 implies that usage of porn causes excessive dopamine release, and unless you have a dopamine level readout on the side of your head, I don't understand how you know that your level of dopamine changed.
Your refute for Claim 2 implies hypofrontality. You can read more here: [url]http://yourbrainonporn.com/l-gray-matter-brains-control-center-linked-ability-process-reward-2011[/url]
Your refute for Claim 4 is a logical fallacy in that it states that "because A is B, C cannot be B". Lack of sociability has no exclusive cause.
Your refute for Claim 5 is your case and cannot speak for the majority.
Your refute for Claim 6 isn't refuting anything
Your refute for Claim 7 is, once again, your case and does not reflect any majority.

Your refute for Claim 1 is attempting to link porn viewing to addiction, not the recovery time.
Your refute for Claim 2 clearly means you haven't faced any addiction whatsoever and thus every point you have is invalid...?

I've shown you the independantly verified journal articles - what do you mean I have 'nothing to back it up with'? How am I preying on [b]anyone[/b] in the thread? Do you think I'm some sort of porn troll or something?

Yes

I've provided plenty of sources.[/QUOTE]
Well apparently being addicted to porn is having a habit of looking at porn,
then I guess I am addicted to porn. I am aware that my experiences are my own and do not represent everyone, you don't need to tell me that. And I could go on saying how much of a sociable person I am but again, It is only my experience. And if I can't tell at all how much dopamine I feel then what is the point of saying it will make your dopamine levels properly regulated? It's not a pro at all if it doesn't make a noticeable difference.
And my refute to Claim 2 is saying that I did not get the hypofrontality that you claim to get from excessive porn viewing.

[editline]16th April 2012[/editline]

[QUOTE=Disseminate;35600633]~you can fap you just can't use porn~[/QUOTE]

Porn enhances the pleasure of masturbating. If you already get pleasure from it in the first place what is the point?
You're saying I could masturbate 5 times a day and get the same beneficial effects you boast?

[mobrockers2]

[QUOTE=Microcosm;35600693][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/tcGnV.gif[/IMG]

I give you guys pledging your porn to the bin a month tops.[/QUOTE]

I'll be happy if I last a month

[MountainWatcher]

[QUOTE=Wolfie13;35595314]This has got to be literally the dumbest thing ever.

Most of this stuff about porn rotting your brain is spread by the conservative christian crowd, seriously, go see how much real science [peer-reviewed shit] points to this conclusion.

Like, seriously. More confidence and less anxiety? I'd argue that just the opposite is true. People who watch porn are way less sexually anxious since they KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THEY'RE DOING.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, man, if I didn't watch porn, I would have no idea that you had to slap their asses and call them sluts while DPing them with a latino friend

Don't get me wrong, I still think this thread is absurd, although I haven't looked at the data and shit in the detail.

[disseminate]

[QUOTE=SilverBullet;35600698]Well apparently being addicted to porn is having a habit of looking at porn,
then I guess I am addicted to porn. I am aware that my experiences are my own and do not represent everyone, you don't need to tell me that. And I could go on saying how much of a sociable person I am but again, It is only my experience. And if I can't tell at all how much dopamine I feel then what is the point of saying it will make your dopamine levels properly regulated? It's not a pro at all if it doesn't make a noticeable difference.

[editline]16th April 2012[/editline]

Porn enhances the pleasure of masturbating. If you already get pleasure from it in the first place what is the point?
You're saying I could masturbate 5 times a day and get the same beneficial effects you boast?[/QUOTE]

You weren't addicted to porn. You just stated that you had no issues stopping the use of porn.
Proper dopamine levels implies you get more pleasure out of the simpler pleasures in life.

That is what I'm saying, yes. You can masturbate all you want.

[SilverBullet]

[QUOTE=Disseminate;35600777]You weren't addicted to porn. You just stated that you had no issues stopping the use of porn.
Proper dopamine levels implies you get more pleasure out of the simpler pleasures in life.

That is what I'm saying, yes. You can masturbate all you want.[/QUOTE]
Yet I look at porn several times a day. Having a hard time stopping something does not define an addiction. You contradict yourself in what you say, you said that I can't tell how much dopamine I feel unless I have a gauge on the side of my head, but you say you will get more dopamine out of the simpler pleasures in life, but how will I tell if I can't feel it.

And your saying I can masturbate all I want? But not look at some images? And somehow it will make a huge difference? I'm sorry but that sounds really stupid.

[Microcosm]

You're not addicted unless you can't stop.

Try for once.

[SilverBullet]

[QUOTE=Microcosm;35600891]You're not addicted unless you can't stop.

Try for once.[/QUOTE]

That's saying too little. Can you get addicted but have no withdrawal? Do you have to be addicted to have withdrawal? Is withdrawal the thing that makes it so you can't stop? If so, is withdrawal what defines an addiction? Is being able to not stop but being forcibly stopped mean that you would or wouldn't get any withdrawal symptoms? What is being able to not stop defined by? Is not being able to stop mean that your not able to stop forever?
I wasn't able to stop forever, but I stopped for a while, if most of the people in here are saying they are going to stop does that mean the don't have an addiction if they stop for say, 2 weeks? If they don't have an addiction, why are they doing it in the first place, it is a paradox to the logic that disseminate uses. You have to have an addiction to start doing this in the first place, or else there are no benefits.

And yes I have done it before.

[.Lain]

This whole thing just seems really stupid to me. Currently by nature I only masturbate once every few weeks for good health, and I'm far from addicted to porn.
This is subject to only some people, some just get addicted to some things a lot easier than some do, but you can overcome this in a far better way than abstinence (which in my experience does fawg all)
Too much of anything is bad for you, but too little of some things is also bad.

[RoflKawpter]

Well, I'm signing up for it. Wish me luck.

Fuck.

[disseminate]

[QUOTE=SilverBullet;35600878]Yet I look at porn several times a day. Having a hard time stopping something does not define an addiction. You contradict yourself in what you say, you said that I can't tell how much dopamine I feel unless I have a gauge on the side of my head, but you say you will get more dopamine out of the simpler pleasures in life, but how will I tell if I can't feel it.[/quote]

Yeah, that's actually the definition of addiction.

You don't get more dopamine, you get more of the effect of dopamine. Quitting porn isn't a spot treatment, it's a chronic medication.

[QUOTE=SilverBullet;35600878]And your saying I can masturbate all I want? But not look at some images? And somehow it will make a huge difference? I'm sorry but that sounds really stupid.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, and that's what the research is saying ("some" images being in the hundreds or thousands). You can use "some" images - just ask any male over thirty how they did it.

[MegaPear]

Just one more time then I'll stop.

[BryBreadmin]

Not giving up porn, but I should definitely watch less of it.

[SilverBullet]

[QUOTE=Disseminate;35600968]Yeah, that's actually the definition of addiction.

You don't get more dopamine, you get more of the effect of dopamine. Quitting porn isn't a spot treatment, it's a chronic medication.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, and that's what the research is saying ("some" images being in the hundreds or thousands). You can use "some" images - just ask any male over thirty how they did it.[/QUOTE]
That's wrong, I have a hard time stopping my breathing, doesn't mean I'm addicted to breathing.

And getting more dopamine, and getting more of the effect of dopamine are the same thing. You can't get more dopamine without the effect of dopamine and you cant get the effect of dopamine without dopamine.

[MountainWatcher]

[QUOTE=ryandaniels;35596930]When I say death, I'm not talking about when your heart stops beating and your brain dies. I'm talking about the absence of life.

Life, being when you love and trust yourself enough to let your logic, creativity, and passion go free.

To control oneself is destruction of oneself in that it is destruction of your relationship with yourself. Make no mistake; controlling and disciplining yourself is a sleight on an entity that does, functionally, exist. And as it would with a relationship with a person you were intimately close with, it only serves to estrange and distance that person from yourself. Eventually, these acts will create a certain sickness of the soul; I imagine this happens once you truly realize you'll never be free of your own fear and self loathing.[/QUOTE]

You do know that the only reason society managed to exist is because you've stopped yourself from going around raping and generally committing dumb shit. And when the hell does "you" come into play? When I stop myself, "I" am doing it, why the hell do natural urges get the right of way?

[Shadaez]

This isn't a debate thread. Is it really that bad for you knowing that someone, somewhere, thinks negatively toward something that you enjoy? Some people may stand to benefit from not watching porn, nobody is making you stop. If you're really that insecure about your porn watching that you need to go into an anti-porn thread to tell people, "I DISAGREE!", you probably do have a problem (God forbit someone take your internet boobies away :( ). Same type of crap happens in any thread where the word vegan, vegetarian, or PETA, mishappens to pop up. No, your views aren't going to change anyone's mind that has already decided to at least try this. I'm pretty sure we're doing it because we're open minded, and you aren't because you're not.

[nmagain]

count me in i wanna see how long i'll last.

[SilverBullet]

[QUOTE=MountainWatcher;35601092]You do know that the only reason society managed to exist is because you've stopped yourself from going around raping and generally committing dumb shit. And when the hell does "you" come into play? When I stop myself, "I" am doing it, why the hell do natural urges get the right of way?[/QUOTE]
You are getting moral urges to stop yourself, are you not?

[disseminate]

[QUOTE=SilverBullet;35601079]That's wrong, I have a hard time stopping my breathing, doesn't mean I'm addicted to breathing.

And getting more dopamine, and getting more of the effect of dopamine are the same thing. You can't get more dopamine without the effect of dopamine and you cant get the effect of dopamine without dopamine.[/QUOTE]

According to Wikipedia,

[quote]the term addiction is used to describe a recurring compulsion by an individual to engage in some specific activity, despite harmful consequences, as deemed by the user themselves to their individual health, mental state, or social life[/quote]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction#Behavioral_addiction[/url]

Dopamine is not positive emotion in itself. Dopamine quantity in your brain doesn't affect your general happiness in life - it's the regulation of dopamine that does.

[SilverBullet]

[QUOTE=Shadaez;35601117]This isn't a debate thread. Is it really that bad for you knowing that someone, somewhere, thinks negatively toward something that you enjoy? Some people may stand to benefit from not watching porn, nobody is making you stop. If you're really that insecure about your porn watching that you need to go into an anti-porn thread to tell people, "I DISAGREE!", you probably do have a problem (God forbit someone take your internet boobies away :( ). Same type of crap happens in any thread where the word vegan, vegetarian, or PETA, mishappens to pop up. No, your views aren't going to change anyone's mind that has already decided to at least try this. I'm pretty sure we're doing it because we're open minded, and you aren't because you're not.[/QUOTE]

So speaking your mind in an insignificant online thread means you have a problem?