[QUOTE=taipan;32487812]I agree with the poster above:
Global warming is real but not mainly caused by Co2 produced by us.
It is a repeating cycle as can be seen here:
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/Vostok_Petit_data.svg/800px-Vostok_Petit_data.svg.png[/img]
(Data from Vostok ice core)[/QUOTE]
The graphs are missing the last [URL="ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/icecore/antarctica/vostok/deutnat.txt"]4 centuries[/URL] and [URL="ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/icecore/antarctica/vostok/co2nat.txt"]2[/URL] and [URL="ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/paleo/icecore/antarctica/vostok/dustnat.txt"]4.5 millennia[/URL] though, respectively.
CO2 would be a bit less than the graph height off the scale on the second graph. The temperature reacts more slowly, so we don't see about half of the warming caused by greenhouse gases yet.
[QUOTE=taipan;32487812][img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/Vostok_Petit_data.svg/800px-Vostok_Petit_data.svg.png[/img]
(Data from Vostok ice core)[/QUOTE] Notice how that warming and cooling is much, much slower then what it is today.
[QUOTE=taipan;32487812]I agree with the poster above:
Global warming is real but not mainly caused by Co2 produced by us.
It is a repeating cycle as can be seen here:
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/Vostok_Petit_data.svg/800px-Vostok_Petit_data.svg.png[/img]
(Data from Vostok ice core)[/QUOTE]
Those are Milankovitch cycles and are caused by changes in the Earth's orbit around the sun. They change the temperature extremely slowly over gazillions of years and have absolutely nothing to do with the current upward climate trend.
Sadly people prefer to deny what they don't want to hear. Accepting global warming as a problem and trying to seriously confront it means dramatic lifestyle changes, and many of us would rather deny it than change.
Also, global warming will affect the northern/southern poles/islands the most, and for many of us safely inland in America or Europe it's easy to think it wouldn't affect us anyways, which is incredibly selfish
It's not a hoax. It's just overhyped. News and governments make it seem bigger than it really is.
[QUOTE=overpain;32375887]It's a hoax,said my old biology teacher.[/QUOTE] My biology teacher said evolution was a hoax and that cellphones will give you cancer.
[editline]27th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sourcream&onion;32377483]How about it's not as big a deal as either side makes it out to be, but there are contributing factors from humanity, as well as that of external influences, such as the sun's activity and natural climate cycles.
Too reasonable?[/QUOTE] No you just compromised which is a bad thing when it comes to a scientific issue.
[editline]27th September 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=asteroidrules;32377963]Humanity is nowhere near capable of causing something that massive.[/QUOTE] I hate people who say the earth is to big to be effected by us. You have no idea of how an ecosystem works if you think that. A small predator dieing will have a huge effect so what makes you think an extremely powerful super predator that makes more waste then any other organism wont have an effect. I mean we already have many documented climate changes thanks to humans. The earth doesn't change this fast and there is a reason organisms are going extinct at over 1,000 times faster then normal.
There was just a TV show on Channel 10 in Australia. They've got three scientists (not sure on how reputable they are, but I'll try and look it up) talking about climate change in response to the Australian carbon tax.
Their professional opinion seems to be that nobody can be sure at all whether or not humans are heating the planet due to the sheer size and openness of the systems that are being analysed, and that the media may be blowing some of the facts out of proportion. For example it's been said that Australian coral reefs will be devastated by the ocean warming by less than a degree Celsius, but according to the Ocean Physicist the same type of coral, inhabited by the same species of fish exists further up north around (I think he said) Indonesia - a place where the ocean is on average a degree or two hotter.
One of the guys works at the Atmospheric divisions at CSIRO (a big, well respected Australian scientific body), a division that the government contacts in relation to climate change nonetheless, and he said that the government is blowing some of the stuff they research out of proportion.
Whatever happens we'll adapt.
Its obvious nothing serious will be done until the problem has already occured and is losing people money.
Also people wont change. Unless you give them alternatives that are cleaner but allow them the same freedom our energy intensive world gives them today, you arnt going to see anything changed.
Whether its happening or not.
The earth has been throwing weird weather at us for the past few years. We had Hurricane Katrina, the 8.8 earthquake in Chile, the 9.0 in Japan, Record high temperatures in the USA this past summer, Australia has seen massive floods.
So yes, I think global warming is a huge issue. Although humans haven't been on this planet very long and we have only been recording natural disasters and climate changes for the past 100 or 200 years, so all of these natural events could be ...natural we just believe them to be a part of global warming because this is the first time we have recorded them.
Not to sound pessimistic, but I doubt humans will last more than a couple generations.
[QUOTE=thisBrad;32693646]The earth has been throwing weird weather at us for the past few years. We had Hurricane Katrina, the 8.8 earthquake in Chile, the 9.0 in Japan, Record high temperatures in the USA this past summer, Australia has seen massive floods.
So yes, I think global warming is a huge issue. Although humans haven't been on this planet very long and we have only been recording natural disasters and climate changes for the past 100 or 200 years, so all of these natural events could be ...natural we just believe them to be a part of global warming because this is the first time we have recorded them.
Not to sound pessimistic, but I doubt humans will last more than a couple generations.[/QUOTE]
Funny that you would include earthquakes as some of that "weird weather."
[QUOTE=sltungle;32693495]Their professional opinion seems to be that nobody can be sure at all whether or not humans are heating the planet due to the sheer size and openness of the systems that are being analysed, and that the media may be blowing some of the facts out of proportion. For example it's been said that Australian coral reefs will be devastated by the ocean warming by less than a degree Celsius, but according to the Ocean Physicist the same type of coral, inhabited by the same species of fish exists further up north around (I think he said) Indonesia - a place where the ocean is on average a degree or two hotter.[/QUOTE]
the main threat to coral reefs is the acidification of the oceans which would result from higher concentrations of CO2 in seawater.
Yes and no.
On one side we are accelerating global warming, on the other it happens naturally as well. Of course "green" is a [B]huge[/B] thing now, slap it onto your product and boom, extra sales (not to mention the money invested in renewable energy sources). Which also means there are hundreds of large corporations investing millions/billions a year to give extra coverage to global warming, fund the researches that benefit them and to give plenty of coverage to faults with other energy sources.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;32696290]the main threat to coral reefs is the acidification of the oceans which would result from higher concentrations of CO2 in seawater.[/QUOTE]
I'm aware of that, but increased atmospheric temperature directly relates to this because water has a higher thermal conductivity of heat than air, and also has a higher head capacity. It absorbs atmospheric heat, which, in turn, increases the amount of CO2 (and any other gas for that matter) that the water can absorb. Ergo, the oceans around about that area SHOULD be more acidic simply because they're warmer.
This is basic chemistry. Water become more saturated with dissolved gases as temperature is increased.
[QUOTE=sltungle;32697061]I'm aware of that, but increased atmospheric temperature directly relates to this because water has a higher thermal conductivity of heat than air, and also has a higher head capacity. It absorbs atmospheric heat, which, in turn, increases the amount of CO2 (and any other gas for that matter) that the water can absorb. Ergo, the oceans around about that area SHOULD be more acidic simply because they're warmer.
This is basic chemistry. Water become more saturated with dissolved gases as temperature is increased.[/QUOTE]
Sure, and the coral reefs in warmer water have adapted to compensate for this under normal conditions.
However when you factor in the massive increase in concentration of atmospheric CO2, it compounds the problem. the oceans get warmer meaning they can absorb more CO2, and there's more CO2 available to be absorbed in the first place from the atmosphere.
Climate change is a fact, but Global Warming is debatable.
I'd rather wildly guess its a Climate Wander.
[img]http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/media/climate_global_temperatures_map_50.JPG[/img]
Here are some global temperature trends. As you can see, on average, the temperature is actually going [i]down[/i]. So no, global warming is not true. It's just a bunch of idiots and Al Gore making a big fuss over nothing.
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;32723632][img]http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/cgi-bin/blogs/media/climate_global_temperatures_map_50.JPG[/img]
Here are some global temperature trends. As you can see, on average, the temperature is actually going [i]down[/i]. So no, global warming is not true. It's just a bunch of idiots and Al Gore making a big fuss over nothing.[/QUOTE]
Image source.
"thepeoplesvoice.org features news, information, and opinion about issues which affect our freedoms, the environment, and the quality of life. Now more than ever 'we the people' need to be aware of the issues and the actions of our leaders.
Mission: The mission of peoplesvoice.org is two fold:
► To inform the public about news and information, often missing from the corporate media.
► To provide people with a way of expressing their views publicly concerning issues that effect; the quality of life, our freedoms, and our environment. Some other areas of interest include: politics, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues.
The corporate media is driven and controlled by corporate military industrial banking complex special interests.
The corporate media doesn’t exist to provide genuine news services, but instead is used for the dissemination of scripted censored news commonly known as propaganda.
The corporate media covers up real and important news with filler news.
Information is not something that is freely provided, but instead is carefully used to dum down and distract the public.
Everything that is shown and told to the people is designed to make them: believe a certain way, behave a certain way, and feel certain emotions like fear, but never love or empathy.
All that the people see and hear has been decided upon by a small powerful wealthy click.
They are shaping the psyche of the people, creating a docile ignorant easy to control population of consumer slaves willing to fight the wars for power and profit, and willing to pay trillions of dollars in tribute each year to the international Federal Reserve banking system."
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;32723751]Image source.
"thepeoplesvoice.org features news, information, and opinion about issues which affect our freedoms, the environment, and the quality of life. Now more than ever 'we the people' need to be aware of the issues and the actions of our leaders.
Mission: The mission of peoplesvoice.org is two fold:
► To inform the public about news and information, often missing from the corporate media.
► To provide people with a way of expressing their views publicly concerning issues that effect; the quality of life, our freedoms, and our environment. Some other areas of interest include: politics, human rights, economic, democratic, scientific, and social justice issues.
The corporate media is driven and controlled by corporate military industrial banking complex special interests.
The corporate media doesn’t exist to provide genuine news services, but instead is used for the dissemination of scripted censored news commonly known as propaganda.
The corporate media covers up real and important news with filler news.
Information is not something that is freely provided, but instead is carefully used to dum down and distract the public.
Everything that is shown and told to the people is designed to make them: believe a certain way, behave a certain way, and feel certain emotions like fear, but never love or empathy.
All that the people see and hear has been decided upon by a small powerful wealthy click.
They are shaping the psyche of the people, creating a docile ignorant easy to control population of consumer slaves willing to fight the wars for power and profit, and willing to pay trillions of dollars in tribute each year to the international Federal Reserve banking system."[/QUOTE]
[url=http://www.longrangeweather.com/global_temperatures.htm]Actual image source[/url]
[QUOTE=Rayjingstorm;32726865][url=http://www.longrangeweather.com/global_temperatures.htm]Actual image source[/url][/QUOTE]
Oh hey, a larger version! I was looking for that!
pollution is real
Anybody who doesn't think global warming is true needs to go back to science class. The evidence is overwhelming, and it's agreed on universally by the scientific community.
As of today Australia's one step closer to approving an actual initiative to curb carbon emissions, even if the majority of cunts will try and shoot it down.
[QUOTE=Jookia;32740197]Anybody who doesn't think global warming is true needs to go back to science class. The evidence is overwhelming, and it's agreed on universally by the scientific community.[/QUOTE]
Global warming exists, obviously, but the debate is on climate change (not global warming), and whether or not it's being effected by mankind. [b]Most[/b] scientists think we're altering the climate, but it's not universal.
One of the things that gets me is that it only really seems to be retired scientists who start coming forward and saying there are holes in our current theories and that the evidence isn't entirely in the favour of man-made climate change. Of course you could see that in two ways. One; they're cooks or desperate for attention or something, or two; there really are holes in the theory and it's unwise for a currently 'active' scientist to say anything against the current model.
[QUOTE=sltungle;32742300]Global warming exists, obviously, but the debate is on climate change (not global warming), and whether or not it's being effected by mankind. [b]Most[/b] scientists think we're altering the climate, but it's not universal.
One of the things that gets me is that it only really seems to be retired scientists who start coming forward and saying there are holes in our current theories and that the evidence isn't entirely in the favour of man-made climate change. Of course you could see that in two ways. One; they're cooks or desperate for attention or something, or two; there really are holes in the theory and it's unwise for a currently 'active' scientist to say anything against the current model.[/QUOTE]
Or the third option: They're mistaken. They're retired and out of sync with current understandings.
It's all bullshit for now, we could effect it soon but honestly it is at the time just a bitch baby to forward political agendas and bullshit marketing.
Global warming is real but it's part of a natural cycle, did the world magicaly just see the iceage and go, welp fuck, it'll be cold forever? No, shit gets colder and warmer because of the sun and orbital shinanigans.
[QUOTE=The one that is;32743876]It's all bullshit for now, we could effect it soon but honestly it is at the time just a bitch baby to forward political agendas and bullshit marketing.
Global warming is real but it's part of a natural cycle, did the world magicaly just see the iceage and go, welp fuck, it'll be cold forever? No, shit gets colder and warmer because of the sun and orbital shinanigans.[/QUOTE]
well fuck you climatologists, this guy just blew you right out of the water
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;32744278]well fuck you climatologists, this guy just blew you right out of the water[/QUOTE]
Pro tip, scientists get paid to do science.
That guy who waves the money at them, yeah he can pay them to get wantever results he wants. Honestly the world is a corrupt shithole of festering greed and idiots. That's a very bad way to look at it, but that's what it is, make it whatever you wish in your little bubble of existance, outside there's bribery, greed, corruption, murder, rape, human-trafficking, drug trade, terrorism, etc...
[QUOTE=The one that is;32745531]Pro tip, scientists get paid to do science.
That guy who waves the money at them, yeah he can pay them to get wantever results he wants. ...[/QUOTE]
So it's all a big hoax perpetrated by "Big Green Energy" then?
[QUOTE=TheDecryptor;32754671]So it's all a big hoax perpetrated by "Big Green Energy" then?[/QUOTE]
He's right to a degree. Nowadays science is a business, whereas a hundred or two years ago it was a hobby, something you did because you loved it and you liked discovering and explaining the unknown.
Nowadays you'll be hired by a company TO PROVE something - which is bad scientific practice right off of the bat because you're NEVER meant to go into a scientific endeavor with the goal of proving something, you're meant to go in with the goal of learning the truth, confirming or denying the theory. You need to establish a null hypothesis.
Why do you think there are so many cigarette companies that say that they're proved that smoking doesn't harm you/others around you? It's quite obviously blatantly incorrect, but they'll hire a group of scientists to do some experiments, they'll take an extremely small sample size, and they'll go, "HEY, LOOK! NO CANCER! CIGARETTES ARE SAFE, PEOPLE!"
It's sad, but unfortunately that's the way the world works. Angular momentum used to make the world go around, now it's money.
... actually, it's still angular momentum.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.