• The Education Threshold of Technology
    117 replies, posted
The problem with current education system is that it rarely or never acknowledges or uses the new tech. If the edu system was reformed to modern times, it would be much more useful and productive. Reforming is happening slowly, but right now I feel it's way too slow that by the time they reach current tech, there will be much better new tech. But then again, education, especially the primary one, is really underfunded and poor, so they can't really afford the tech and reforms and shit.
[QUOTE=johan_sm;29108341]The problem with current education system is that it rarely or never acknowledges or uses the new tech. If the edu system was reformed to modern times, it would be much more useful and productive. Reforming is happening slowly, but right now I feel it's way too slow that by the time they reach current tech, there will be much better new tech. But then again, education, especially the primary one, is really underfunded and poor, so they can't really afford the tech and reforms and shit.[/QUOTE] Not always. I'm using my examples, but here's it: A simple digital multimeter costs FIVE dollars. Five. With my current salary, I can supply half of the schools in my city for a month. Five fucking dollars. Autodesk has an amazing deal for schools. The give out their software for free. Literally. Here - [url]http://students.autodesk.com/[/url] New schoolbooks are written and re-written almost every year. Changing the contents wouldn't be that hard and expensive. There just needs to be initiative!
[QUOTE=Stopper;29108477]Not always. I'm using my examples, but here's it: A simple digital multimeter costs FIVE dollars. Five. With my current salary, I can supply half of the schools in my city for a month. Five fucking dollars. Autodesk has an amazing deal for schools. The give out their software for free. Literally. Here - [url]http://students.autodesk.com/[/url] New schoolbooks are written and re-written almost every year. Changing the contents wouldn't be that hard and expensive. There just needs to be initiative![/QUOTE] What can you possibly use a multimeter for in class? As for autodesk and other student licenses. Using 3d apps to teach maths or other stuff would be really great, but the problem comes that you need teachers who know the app. Most old geezers who work in schools know jack. Replacing and/or educating them costs a lot too.
[QUOTE=johan_sm;29108811]What can you possibly use a multimeter for in class? As for autodesk and other student licenses. Using 3d apps to teach maths or other stuff would be really great, but the problem comes that you need teachers who know the app. Most old geezers who work in schools know jack. Replacing and/or educating them costs a lot too.[/QUOTE] I studied in a... Well, actually, I'm not sure how it's called in English, but it's a school where electronics, hardware/software, programming, stuff like that is taught. Technical school? Hell, I don't know. So, when we did practical work in class (connecting a schematic on a practice board), we needed multimeters. You have a point about teachers though. Educating them would cost money. Replacing them - not so much. Finding them would be a hard thing though - Being a teacher isn't a very likable and/or well paid job.
Alright. The issue here is not that calculators are overused, or that technology often removes the need for a lot of things. A high school level statistics course, for example, can be done almost entirely within a TI-84, utilizing built in functions, but that isn't a calculator's fault. The problem is that the way Math is taught, it is just calculations and memorizations. And that's not really what mathematics is. That may be day to day life, but honestly, in day to day life you won't need to do that many calculations in your head, and if your job requires you to, then you'll figure it out fast. Math is taught as "memorize this" and "this is the formula for this", and that is dreadfully boring and a poor way altogether. Math should be taught as it truly is, an art. The conecpts of logic and theorems and proofs should come early and be a major aspect of math. That problem solving is what really needs to be done. The other things can be caught up later. Calculus? Not something the average person needs to really know. For the jobs that need it, it's important, but now a computer can do that work. You can check it if you'd like, but it's true that a computer can do it. What needs to be learned is true problem solving, true analysis, and logic. What computers can't just do for you. The useful skills. Not rote work. That's important to know, but again, calculators and other things can deal with a lot of that, if the field you are in involves it, a big if. So, to repeat myself somewhat, the issue isn't that calculators and other technologies are ruining education, it's that education was broken and calculators are drawing attention to the flaws.
Last time I cheated any kind of test was back in first grade or some shit. I'd feel too bad and it wouldn't be my accomplishment.
Education is evolving, throughout my time in college/university i've been taught how to use things, rather than to remember them altogether.
[QUOTE=Master117;29102137]The problem I see with technology is the expectation to gain information instantly. Why do children have focusing issues in school? Well because the world around them is not like it was even 10 years ago. Everything now has flashing, blinking lights that will give you whatever information you need in an instant. Why read a text book when you can get an excerpt of specific information on Google? We are moving away from "allowing technology to work with us" and more "letting technology work for us." Is this a bad thing? Maybe. Maybe not. The good it brings is new advances in science and medicine. The bad is if something happens, such as a global energy crises, or mass EMP destruction, whether man-mad or extra-terrestrial (i.e. the Sun, not aliens [which could happen at some point]). If our electronics are wiped out, a lot of people who are on this planet will fail to survive long-term. The biggest curse of technology is that it allows global population densities that were unfathomed even 100 years ago because the Earth just could not handle it. When it fails, the Earth won't be able to handle the population and people will die.[/QUOTE] So basically you're saying that if i want to know who is the king of Spain i have to read the hole book to find out I sympathize with what you're saying but you're not taking into consideration the fact that technology is not playing a major role in education, you still use pen and paper to write notes, you still use pens on exams, unless theres that revolution in education (and other areas of course) there is absolutely no way "people will die" because we can't go on the TV or on the internet. If our electronics are wiped out we'll just make more, you can't expect humanity stopping from going forward in this apocalyptic post of yours, we will always find a way. bad post
[QUOTE=Stopper;29107509]I don't think anyone was trying to compensate for anything - it's just the automatic assumption that the older you are, the more you remember (absolute bullshit if you ask me). I remember my history lessons being 7-10 pages long each with little useful and easy to remember information - it was all just facts, more facts, no arguments or explanations, only facts.[/QUOTE] I think that different techniques work for different people. My year 7 teacher (so, about a decade ago) would 'teach' us by writing a page of facts on the board, and having us copy them into our books. For the most part, [B]that was it.[/B] Despite that, I still remember a great deal of information (as far as we were taught) about the use of the stylus in Mesopotamia, the constructions of their ziggurats and so on. [editline]12th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=DrBreen;29110075] I sympathize with what you're saying but you're not taking into consideration the fact that technology is not playing a major role in education, you still use pen and paper to write notes, you still use pens on exams[/QUOTE] Huh? I use computers exclusively (except in, say, personal conversations) at university, both for note-taking and exams?
[QUOTE=Contag;29110650]I think that different techniques work for different people. My year 7 teacher (so, about a decade ago) would 'teach' us by writing a page of facts on the board, and having us copy them into our books. For the most part, [B]that was it.[/B] Despite that, I still remember a great deal of information (as far as we were taught) about the use of the stylus in Mesopotamia, the constructions of their ziggurats and so on.[/QUOTE] Do you possibly only remember the interesting things? Because I can't for the love of my life remember what advantages and disadvantages does the constitution of 1795 bring to France. Or what was the name of the king that inherited the English throne after the death of Cromwell. Or the year in which the Protestant Reformation begun. But I do remember that these were the kinds of questions we had in our tests back then. It's a shame really. I'm not French. I'm not English either. I'm also most certainly not religious. You see where I'm going with this?
So OP is a dumbass, and blames technology?
[QUOTE=Stopper;29110758]Do you possibly only remember the interesting things? Because I can't for the love of my life remember what advantages and disadvantages does the constitution of 1795 bring to France. Or what was the name of the king that inherited the English throne after the death of Cromwell. Or the year in which the Protestant Reformation begun. But I do remember that these were the kinds of questions we had in our tests back then. It's a shame really. I'm not French. I'm not English either. I'm also most certainly not religious. You see where I'm going with this?[/QUOTE] I think that is definitely a large part of it, yes. [editline]12th April 2011[/editline] The information was also presented contextually, so you could see how it fit into the 'big picture'.
[QUOTE=Contag;29110650]I think that different techniques work for different people. My year 7 teacher (so, about a decade ago) would 'teach' us by writing a page of facts on the board, and having us copy them into our books. For the most part, [B]that was it.[/B] Despite that, I still remember a great deal of information (as far as we were taught) about the use of the stylus in Mesopotamia, the constructions of their ziggurats and so on. [editline]12th April 2011[/editline] Huh? I use computers exclusively (except in, say, personal conversations) at university, both for note-taking and exams?[/QUOTE] Try that in high school or pre school, lol.
First of all, it's a good thing that these kids have access to wicked technology. Just raise peopel agaisnt cheating. Fuck, most people have the "myself before them" mentality that causes this, it's damn near human nature. And what's wrong with not being able to solve a problem if we don't have to. you need to study math because you need it to advance what math you already have and to build better calculators.
I miss the 90s.
[QUOTE=DrBreen;29111027]Try that in high school or pre school, lol.[/QUOTE] Actually, the high school I go(almost went soon) to, you are able to use computers(Actually, they hand out laptops to each student, which are then returned to the school at the end of each year) for note taking in many courses, and computerized systems for exams in similarly many courses. [url]http://www.einstruction.com/products/student-response-systems/cps-pulse[/url] We use what are basically these in a lot of exams. (Less so now than in previous years, admittedly. But we still do use them for exams in a variety of courses.) I've heard of similar programs in middle schools in other places, as well as knowing that local elementary schools also use those CPS units.
[QUOTE=Contag;29110650] Huh? I use computers exclusively (except in, say, personal conversations) at university, both for note-taking and exams?[/QUOTE] I think many universities are more well equipped with proper technology and such. I think he's talking about high schools and lower. Many high schools have student laptop programs, but most, from what I can tell, don't. My high school, the only time you ever use a computer, is in a computer related class, or if you do research or type up a paper in class. Although, every classroom finally got projectors now, so teachers can write notes or examples on the projector instead or do note presentations.
[QUOTE=Ruski v2.0;29107508]Not everyone is a douche bag cheater. Many work their asses off to get decent exam results. Plus if you get caught cheating then the exam agency fucks you over and won't let you take any more exams, making cheating pointless.[/QUOTE] It's almost like as if you didn't read what I say. I never actualy said that all kid's are cheaters, and I'm well aware of the uselessness of cheating. This however doe's not mean that there are or aren't cheater's in school. There is no such thing as a perfect human-being and there's no such place as a school filled with student's that don't fight, don't cheat etc. I will acknowledge that yes, there are few and many that actually do work their asses off to get somewhere. [editline]12th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=TheForeigner;29107740]Whats the song recognition software?[/QUOTE] Shazam is a mainstream app, there are many other one's too. Google's YouTube sector has a very advanced one that scans every video submission and matches it with the corresponding record companies Copyright procedures and follows through accordingly. [editline]12th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=GeneralFredrik;29106253]I learned something today thanks to technology. I learned what an Archimede's screw was. Thanks technology![/QUOTE] I'm amused at how many people don't actually understand where I'm coming from here, like I've said numerous times, I'm not blaming technology and nor am I against it. I was voicing my opinion about the education system and the way they utilize/restrict technology bringing forth a discussion as to whether or not there should be a threshold of technology usage in schools. Yes, technology bring's us the answers we want, but learning bring's us answer's that we wern't even seeking. If kid's grow up expecting to get the answer that they seek by simply typing in a problem, then they'll never learn to seek out a result manually, what if all technology suddenly seized to work? What if the answer's that they seek were actually False. Not everything that is said on the net is true, and there are many many different opinions and conflicting story's. [editline]12th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=MountainWatcher;29111357]First of all, it's a good thing that these kids have access to wicked technology. Just raise peopel agaisnt cheating. Fuck, most people have the "myself before them" mentality that causes this, it's damn near human nature. And what's wrong with not being able to solve a problem if we don't have to. you need to study math because you need it to advance what math you already have and to build better calculators.[/QUOTE] How could you possibly expect every human being to be against cheating? We know it's wrong but humans are pricks, and alot of us do thing's that we know are wrong for personal gain. Selfishness runs strong in many people, why do you think people cheat? Because it's easier than studying your ass off like the person next to you.
Technology can be a good thing. Sure you can just type a question into Google and get a quick answer, but in the workbooks I use the answers can always be found at the end of the page. That doesn't help me though, so I use Google to figure out how to do it so I can do further problems in the future. Sure, you can blame phones for cheating, but you can also do the same for simple pen and paper. Write what you need to remember before the test and take the paper in during the test. But like I said, how is that going to get you anywhere in life?
Im not blaming technology or phones or anything like that, If it sounded like that, I apologise.
The habits people make in high school can carry over to college. Cheating through high school can transfer into cheating through college. The difference between cheating in high school and college is simple: if you are in high school, you are 'entitled' to an education. If you are in college, you are paying for an education; if you get caught cheating at a college, you will likely never get admitted to any college for the rest of your life. Some of the teachers at my high school don't care about cheating because it only hurts yourself. Why? Because the students that put in the effort in high school, the kind of people who don't google search answers during tests, are likely going to be the people who prosper in college.
The only legitimate argument I've heard against the increasing involvement of technology in our lives is that we will be helpless if it is taken from us. Quite frankly, if the only counterargument is a technological apocalypse, I see nothing to fear. I welcome advancements in the classroom, and eagerly await my iDesk.
[QUOTE=green bandit;29100461]Same here, could not use calculators for the most part, until high school.[/QUOTE] it was the opposite for us use calculators till We reached high school then we can't use them as much and only then the school approved Dumbass calculators
OP is totally ignoring how most teachers confiscate any cellphones before exams. And how scientific calculators are used in calculations which would take really long to count by a person.
[QUOTE=Sunday_Roast;29123498]most teachers confiscate any cellphones before exams.[/QUOTE] The fuck?
[QUOTE=Demache;29114899]I think many universities are more well equipped with proper technology and such. I think he's talking about high schools and lower. Many high schools have student laptop programs, but most, from what I can tell, don't. My high school, the only time you ever use a computer, is in a computer related class, or if you do research or type up a paper in class. [/QUOTE] I used my laptop in all my classes. In high school, from year 11 up. [editline]12th April 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Matix;29123513]The fuck?[/QUOTE] Yeah, people try to cheat using cell phones. Fucking stupid, because most of the exams here are structured so that if even if it was open book, you'd be screwed if you didn't know what to do without looking at the book.
On topic though, We need more tech in schools tbh. When i was in kindergarden i was doing stuff on a apple II that was in 1999-2000 they are now using 10 year old Dells at that school
[QUOTE=Ignyte;29118964]It's almost like as if you didn't read what I say. How could you possibly expect every human being to be against cheating? We know it's wrong but humans are pricks, and alot of us do thing's that we know are wrong for personal gain. Selfishness runs strong in many people, why do you think people cheat? Because it's easier than studying your ass off like the person next to you.[/QUOTE] I don't expect them to do that, presently, but hell, societies managed to create strong new paradigms before. Religion is one of them.
anyways it's silly it's like blaming pencils that feathers never got used again or something
Having not read all the replies, I do not know if this has already been said. Assets like google and calculators exist for a reason. They exist so that we humans do not need to waste valuable time learning facts and doing math that we have specialised tools for, which can do it faster and with better accuracy. You need to know why the math works, because that is the only way to use it correctly. If you don't understand the abstract pattern behind why the calc gives you the right answer then one day you will input the wrong numbers, get the wrong result and something bad will happen. But after having learnes that there is absolutely no point in proceeding to do so. It only results in a loss of productivity. As for knowledge, in the past times knowledge in recorded form was not abundant. Therefore you had to learn all the facts, because you could not find them elsewhere. Now you can, with google. So use it. Don't memorise the mass of the proton when you can look it up. Spend your time learning how you can use the number, and other numbers instead. Understanding the principles behind how something works instead of just knowing the results of each equation. Why? Facts get old really fast. The world is changing at an ever increasing pace, new truths are discovered and old truths are found to be invalid. But if you learn how to find the facts and more inportantly, separate truth from lie (source criticism) you will be able to instantly retreive any piece of information, know how to use it and know if it is correct or not. If you just learn all the facts 1/4 of your lifework will be obsolete and useless within 10 years. It was not very smart of you to cheat, but a kid in school simply can not be expected to know how bad it is for your future to cheat. Your teachers should have been paying more attention.
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