• United States Presidential Election 2012 MEGATHREAD
    2,907 replies, posted
[QUOTE=person11;37696388]Voter ID laws keeping many transexual and black people from voting.[/QUOTE] Wait what.
Look up Florida voter ID laws. Those ones are the worst so far, but other republican states are not far behind. I refuse to even give Obama Florida, since many people answering the polls will not be able to vote there. [editline]17th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Political Gamer;37698759]I think its more the post-convention bump starting to drain off.[/QUOTE] I know. What I mean is, do you really think it is anywhere near 70%? Or are people severely underestimating Democrat turn out rates?
As an outsider (Finnish), Romney seems hilariously bad at this whole politics thing. I also seem to be a liberal left-ish person. Hm.
[QUOTE=Cone;37698706]what are your reasons for despising Obama? I know he's screwed up quite a few things, but Romney is pretty much a mad dog.[/QUOTE] To give you the short answer, he's made the Federal government a lot larger. I don't like that. For the long answer, I'll list off each issue I have with him. -Reappointing Bernanke, who is using the country to test his volatile fiscal policies, such as Quantitative easing. -Bailouts ("rewarding" companies with failing or otherwise unsustainable business structures, which, in a competitive market, harms companies who are structurally sound. For example, AIG was able to continue giving rates which would draw more customers to them, taking customers away from their competitors.) -Passing the the Healthcare act, which we clearly cannot afford at this time, and will eventually end up like Social Security -Has violated the War Powers Act of 1973 two times, firstly with Libya, secondly with Uganda, where troops were stationed for more than 90 days. (The President can deploy up to 60 days without Congressional approval, and has an additional 30 days to remove the soldiers if Congress fails to give an extension or a declaration of war. -Has expressed desires to restrict the right to bear arms, and possibly renewing the Assault weapon ban. He'll likely pursue this aggressively once he gets his re-election. -Wants to target both large and small-business owners for tax-hikes simply because they have more. Vilifies them by comparing them to the greedy CEOs who exploited his bailouts. -Did nothing to stop NDAA (even going so far as to support it) -Has done very little to reduce the overall debt. On a more personal note, I find him a really annoying speaker. To me, it always seems like his words are always laced with venom, and, in my opinion, he's arrogant. As for Romney, I'm sure you're well versed in his flaws. I'd be preaching to the chior
If the Republicans disappear, what party or movement will fill the vacuum? I don't like either candidate. Use to like Ron Paul, but am too jaded to care now. Kind of wish Jon Huntsman was still running. He seemed like a moderately sane, near center conservative.
There is this weird impression that Obama hates guns and businesses and wants the government to take over everything with more debt everywhere while warmongering. Hahahahahaha [editline]17th September 2012[/editline] I have good reasons to laugh but fuck it's hard typing on a dumb iPad. Stupid lack of Internet forcing me to use my moms iPad at least it has 4G [editline]17th September 2012[/editline] I can't even see who rated me dumb. Well I guess I shouldn't care anyway. Anyway: [url]http://www.facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1212619[/url] Who thinks this will change anything? I think that the Republicans voting for Romney will like Romney even more after hearing him in these videos. The Democrats will hate him more & the course of the election won't really change. Plus Mother Jones completely exaggerated everything Romney said in that article.
I would try to help get one of the third-party candidates some recognition but I live in Pennsylvania and I should probably vote for Obama.
Romeny and Obama are one in the same: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IWDJEc92d38[/url] And for comparison: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=b9XlV9Z7ITw[/url] Those of you saying you like third parties, but know if you vote it won't make a difference, I have to say this: To be frank, you're ignorant. First off as stated above and proven, they are the same. Second off, "picking the lesser of two evils" is no excuse. You are still partcipating in the bi-party dichotomy of evil, and at the end of the day evil still wins. At the end of the day you perpetuated evil with an open hand. Now this argument has holes, but this is what makes it full-proof: You have other options (third party, write in etc...) Why does this matter: Because, when real change comes it will be because the people have had enough, it will come from the one's that didn't participate in the dichotomy of evil because media and fancy rhetoric from made them willingly perpetuate evil. Change will come from the people willing to send their government a message, the one's vote FOR someone, not AGAINST someone.
relaxation, wake up please we live in a country where the majority of people live in the heat of the moment. they thrive on the "bi-party dichotomy of evil" (which is kind of redundant.) like, it's not as simple as everyone waking up one day and going "well hey we fucked up" and suddenly fixing everyone. this election is between Romney and President Obama. what you're saying sounds nice, and the big words are impressive and your sentence structure and vernacular is pretty spectacular too. but pretty words and good sentences aren't going to magically fix the US overnight like you seem to think is entirely possible
[QUOTE=Smug Bastard;37649602]I figured this might be relevant to the thread. [URL="http://politicalcompass.org/uselection2012"]Political Compass chart of the 2012 election[/URL] [URL="http://politicalcompass.org/test"]Test for finding out your position on the chart[/URL] I find it funny that almost all the charts on politicalcompass.org have placed Rocky Anderson and Barack Obama on the right, though. Out of curiosity I took the test with Obama's positions and I got about 1 square libertarian and 1 square to the left of the center line.[/QUOTE] loving these questions lol: "If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations?" no i think it should serve companies not humanity
Attitude I'm talking about. Another victim of rhetoric coming from the media and Washington. Everyone stick with this attitude. "Nothing will change, so I'll just participate." Of course nothing will change when you have that attitude. You sir need to wake up and realize that enough is enough for the American people. Look we all have a mutual problem with Washington: Politicians are at the servitude of a group of people's special interests, even if it means fucking other people. There are other issues, and this issue alone goes way past who our president will be. I've woken up, I REFUSE to vote republican or democrat. I'm one out of the ~1 million that is letting the government know that the American people have had enough, I'm letting the government know that it's not fair to be at the servitude on one group of people's special interests' at the expense of the others' when we can all be free! It's possible, not likely at the moment. But what makes it impossible is your attitude. I know thing's won't change over night, but one thing I know is that the Libertarian ideology is on the rise. Guess who's foreign policy was most support this past election? Ron Paul's. 80% of active duty troops support Ron Paul, now that's saying something!
"I'm letting the government know that it's not fair to be at the servitude on one group of people's special interests' at the expense of the others' when we can all be free!" so you're a communist now? okay
You're an idiot if you think that means I'm communist, lol.
what's your point about 80% of troops supporting paul's foreign policy are you suggesting ron paul mount a coup?
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37709635]Attitude I'm talking about. Another victim of rhetoric coming from the media and Washington. Everyone stick with this attitude. "Nothing will change, so I'll just participate." Of course nothing will change when you have that attitude. You sir need to wake up and realize that enough is enough for the American people. Look we all have a mutual problem with Washington: Politicians are at the servitude of a group of people's special interests, even if it means fucking other people. There are other issues, and this issue alone goes way past who our president will be. I've woken up, I REFUSE to vote republican or democrat. I'm one out of the ~1 million that is letting the government know that the American people have had enough, I'm letting the government know that it's not fair to be at the servitude on one group of people's special interests' at the expense of the others' when we can all be free![/QUOTE] you haven't woken up. hahaha. seriously? the problem is the people that are vying for office are the very types of people we don't want in office. plain and simple. if you really want change, stop bitching on a forum in the dark corners of the internet. start running for office now because you're going to need the experience. I have yet to see you offer an actual solution either. It's all just "rabble rabble rabble government sucks!!!" congratulations. identifying problems is easy. fixing them is the problem. I'm not going to pretend I know the solution, so you shouldn't either. But refusing to vote republican or democrat? Are you serious? Might as well not vote then!
Not that you're looking to debate anything other than argue syntax in hopes of someone furthering your God (Obama) as a good leader. I mean you constantly deny logic, numbers, etc.. Then make an excuse to make things better, so I'm assuming you worship him. Might as well worship Romney too, after all they have the same political ideology, Of course you'll refute the hard, on record evidence of the aforementioned, all to justify the blatant wrongs of your God, Obama.
and let's not even pretend that Ron Paul would make a good president, and on the basis of his foreign policy being popular? never trust the majority on anything [editline]18th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Relaxation;37709678]Not that you're looking to debate anything other than argue syntax in hopes of someone furthering your God (Obama) as a good leader. I mean you constantly deny logic, numbers, etc.. Then make an excuse to make things better, so I'm assuming you worship him. Might as well worship Romney too, after all they have the same political ideology, Of course you'll refute the hard, on record evidence of the aforementioned, all to justify the blatant wrongs of your God, Obama.[/QUOTE] I don't even like Obama that much. He's terribly underqualified for the job and he's made a few poor decisions in office. he's a good speaker though and I know he means well. Mitt? not so much. and nobody hardly ever praises Obama as a god.
correct - obongo doesn't have a valid american birth certificate because he actually descended from heaven
[QUOTE=Protocol7;37709672]you haven't woken up. hahaha. seriously? the problem is the people that are vying for office are the very types of people we don't want in office. plain and simple. if you really want change, stop bitching on a forum in the dark corners of the internet. start running for office now because you're going to need the experience. I have yet to see you offer an actual solution either. It's all just "rabble rabble rabble government sucks!!!" congratulations. identifying problems is easy. fixing them is the problem. I'm not going to pretend I know the solution, so you shouldn't either. But refusing to vote republican or democrat? Are you serious? Might as well not vote then![/QUOTE] You don't get it, I stated you can vote third party or write in someone (Ron Paul) for example. But the Libertarians that support actual change won't make any progress when people have your attitude and willingly perpetuate evil because they feel they have no other choice. They will make a change will people like you wake up and understand that you don't have to perpetuate evil, you don't have to vote AGAINST someone, but instead FOR someone. They'll have more power when you add to the movement, versus being discouraged to vote for them because you fell into the trap of media, etc... [editline]18th September 2012[/editline] Why do you think Ron Paul wouldn't make a good president?
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37709694]You don't get it, I stated you can vote third party or write in someone (Ron Paul) for example. But the Libertarians that support actual change won't make any progress when people have your attitude and willingly perpetuate evil because they feel they have no other choice. They will make a change will people like you wake up and understand that you don't have to perpetuate evil, you don't have to vote AGAINST someone, but instead FOR someone. They'll have more power when you add to the movement, versus being discouraged to vote for them because you fell into the trap of media, etc...[/QUOTE] ok well that's fine and dandy and all but literally writing in a different president doesn't accomplish anything I'm astonished that people actually think the president is the end-all be-all for american politics the problem is congress. I don't care what obama's policies are. I don't care what romney's policies are. legislation starts in congress. if you want to fix the country then you fucking fix congress.
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37709658]You're an idiot if you think that means I'm communist, lol.[/QUOTE] so you're a capitalist but yet you think that special interests shouldn't work at the expense of others? what form of non-functional capitalism do you believe in? either you believe in exploitation or not
I believe in free markets where the government doesn't have to cater to the poor by taxing the rich, etcc... That's not equality, but instead the exact opposite. I don't believe in bail outs, etc... That is NOT capitalism. When the government caters to a certain group, especially the lower class, it is the opposite of capitalism, it HURTS free markets, in turn hurting lower class, and thus we have higher taxes, quantitative easing, etc... to artificially fix things, which has yielded little to no economic growth.
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37709744]I believe in free markets where the government doesn't have to cater to the poor by taxing the rich, etcc... That's not equality, but instead the exact opposite. I don't believe in bail outs, etc... That is NOT capitalism. When the government caters to a certain group, especially the lower class, it is the opposite of capitalism, it HURTS free markets, in turn hurting lower class, and thus we have higher taxes, quantitative easing, etc... to artificially fix things, which has yielded little to no economic growth.[/QUOTE] in a perfect world I would agree with you but if we didn't have bailouts and shit we'd be in a depression right now
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37709744]I believe in free markets where the government doesn't have to cater to the poor by taxing the rich, etcc... That's not equality, but instead the exact opposite. I don't believe in bail outs, etc... That is NOT capitalism. When the government caters to a certain group, especially the lower class, it is the opposite of capitalism, it HURTS free markets, in turn hurting lower class, and thus we have higher taxes, quantitative easing, etc... to artificially fix things, which has yielded little to no economic growth.[/QUOTE] i'm not talking about the government you talk about change, and waking up, and not perpetuating evil, yet you support a system of exploitation. we evolved the system we have today to escape that horrible past, how is it freedom to plunge everyone back into it?
[img]http://i.imgur.com/T3o5o.png[/img] These are the pieces of shit I have to deal with in my city. (they're 100% serious)
[QUOTE=person11;37707519]There is this weird impression that Obama hates guns and businesses and wants the government to take over everything with more debt everywhere while warmongering. Hahahahahaha [editline]17th September 2012[/editline] I have good reasons to laugh but fuck it's hard typing on a dumb iPad. Stupid lack of Internet forcing me to use my moms iPad at least it has 4G [editline]17th September 2012[/editline] I can't even see who rated me dumb. Well I guess I shouldn't care anyway. [/QUOTE] If I had wanted a response like that, I would have posted in the OIFY.
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;37710696][img]http://i.imgur.com/T3o5o.png[/img] These are the pieces of shit I have to deal with in my city. (they're 100% serious)[/QUOTE] This surely must be satire.
[QUOTE=Boba_Fett;37710793]If I had wanted a response like that, I would have posted in the OIFY.[/QUOTE] You have no idea what the mind goes through after spending 3 hours in the basement trying to repair a broken internet connection. [editline]18th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Boba_Fett;37702718]To give you the short answer, he's made the Federal government a lot larger. I don't like that. For the long answer, I'll list off each issue I have with him. -Reappointing Bernanke, who is using the country to test his volatile fiscal policies, such as Quantitative easing. -Bailouts ("rewarding" companies with failing or otherwise unsustainable business structures, which, in a competitive market, harms companies who are structurally sound. For example, AIG was able to continue giving rates which would draw more customers to them, taking customers away from their competitors.) -Passing the the Healthcare act, which we clearly cannot afford at this time, and will eventually end up like Social Security -Has violated the War Powers Act of 1973 two times, firstly with Libya, secondly with Uganda, where troops were stationed for more than 90 days. (The President can deploy up to 60 days without Congressional approval, and has an additional 30 days to remove the soldiers if Congress fails to give an extension or a declaration of war. -Has expressed desires to restrict the right to bear arms, and possibly renewing the Assault weapon ban. He'll likely pursue this aggressively once he gets his re-election. -Wants to target both large and small-business owners for tax-hikes simply because they have more. Vilifies them by comparing them to the greedy CEOs who exploited his bailouts. -Did nothing to stop NDAA (even going so far as to support it) -Has done very little to reduce the overall debt. On a more personal note, I find him a really annoying speaker. To me, it always seems like his words are always laced with venom, and, in my opinion, he's arrogant. As for Romney, I'm sure you're well versed in his flaws. I'd be preaching to the chior[/QUOTE] Long Answer: 1. Volatile Fiscal Policies? Bernanke is partly responsible for saving what was left of the economy when Obama took office. Even if he was not a controversial figure (no idea why (real reasons not Ron Paul logic) anybody would dislike him or the Fed), it is standard policy to reappoint the head of the Fed. Remember how long Greenspan was in office? 2. Bailouts may have been a painful thing to do (giving money to failing companies, etc), but it was all we could do to avoid a large economic break down. It was a painful but necessary action to take. Plus, many of the companies bailed out have managed to pay the government back, most notably the car companies we bailed out. My only regret is that we did not do something to keep the CEOs from getting bonuses. 3. The Healthcare act barely puts a dent into Government debt. It is a system that still depends on insurance companies to give charge people for healthcare, and to then take care of them. Any costs that the government did have to bear have been covered by a few taxes for the rich, such as a 40% tax on healthcare plans that cost more than 1000 dollars a month. Even if it does come at some sort of insane cost to the government, better care for transexuals, a higher amount of people on healthcare, and free birth control are all worth the cost. 4.Who has not violated that act? It is like the village bicycle of being violated. Anyway, Obama's actions in Libya were perfectly justified. We helped the rebels, and left without losing a single life. 5. First of all, I am sure Obama is not as much a fan of banning guns as you seem to think. Second of all, some sort of light gun control would not do any harm when we have the highest rate of gun ownership in the world. 6. Simply not true for small businesses. And he does not vilify big businesses, he simply tells the truth. Higher taxes should be placed on entities that make more money. It is not a difficult concept. 7. What would be the political cost of being against it? He could do nothing to stop it, and he does not need to make more Political enemies. His support of an inevitable bill was simply a political move to avoid conflict within his own party and with the Republicans. 8. Debt reduction is the dumbest thing you can do during a recession, and a recovery from a recession. Obama is one of the most positive speakers I have ever heard, where is his venom? Are you just imagining that? And arrogance comes with success, and he has been pretty damn successful as a President.
[QUOTE=person11;37712363]You have no idea what the mind goes through after spending 3 hours in the basement trying to repair a broken internet connection.[/QUOTE] Believe me dude, I know what it's like. I can see why you'd be upset.
Thank you. But anyway, I know Obama is not perfect, and he has done things that I really hate, but I will vote for him because third party candidates are not viable candidates for the most part. It is nice to feel nice about not voting for the "lesser evil", but in the end you just give Romney a higher chance of winning (I assume that many third party voters would vote for Obama if they were given the choice between Obama and Romney).
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