United States Presidential Election 2012 MEGATHREAD
2,907 replies, posted
We, Russians, think that Americans are strange.
The elections are so close and they don't even know who will be the next president!
Ah yes, the uncertainty of democracy
[QUOTE=person11;37712363]You have no idea what the mind goes through after spending 3 hours in the basement trying to repair a broken internet connection.
[editline]18th September 2012[/editline]
You are completely and utterly clueless my friend.. just like the 79%+ on here who voted for Obama. How depressing there are
Can anyone give me a well thought-out argument for why we should re-elect Obama? I feel like every time i get into a political argument with an Obama supporter it is with some uninformed kid whose never spent time in the real world with a real job gathering real world experiences to make intelligent decisions.
Let me post an argument for why we should NOT elect this guy for another 4 years.
Start with the premise that we are NOT better off today then we were 4 years ago. Its very easy to see this if your life is based in reality - you buy your own groceries, pay for your own gas, work at a real job, etc. This is an obvious statement that most Americans agree with. Life sucks a lot more now then it did 4 years ago, and the curve is bending downward.
So with that stated, then why should we re-elect our leader who brought us here? In 2008 Obama had a 70+ seat majority in the House of Representatives. He had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. He had 70+ approval numbers. For historical comparisons, he had more power in his hands than either Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Ford, ever had. He could have passed any law he wanted without needing a single Republican vote.
With all that power, why did he not improve things? Its a simple question that doesn't need to be layered with politics or spin. Why could this guy not even lead his own party towards a solution?
When you are saying you will vote for him, you are saying that you expect him to be able to fix this country with even less power then he had in 2008. The Republicans will likely control either the House or the Senate, and will at the very least have enough seats for a filibuster.
I just fail to see a valid argument here, even if i lend as much credit to Obama as i can. He is a complete and total failure. The Democrats lost when they refused to run a candidate against him in the primary.
To answer my two favorite counterarguments before they get stated
Osama Bin Laden: I am glad Obama continued the policies he opposed as a Junior Senator. And i'm thrilled he killed OBL. But the economy was his charge when he took office in 2008. George Bush may have had his mind on national security, but the mind of the public in 2008 was clearly on the economy. For Obama killing OBL is just not a big enough deal to outweigh his failures on the economy.
Gay Marriage: Oddly this issue seems to take dominance over far more pressing concerns - like the economic stability of our country. I am in favor of gay marriage and equal rights, but i would not find myself voting for Obama over this issue - even if i trusted his new "stance" was legitimate. Its just not an issue that is critical for us to fix right now. Nor do i think the president is even going to be able to influence this decision. It is a fight between the young and the old generations. The young generation is going to win eventually. Patience is all that is needed.
[QUOTE=realityman;37714286][QUOTE=person11;37712363]You have no idea what the mind goes through after spending 3 hours in the basement trying to repair a broken internet connection.[/QUOTE]
[editline]18th September 2012[/editline]
You are completely and utterly clueless my friend.. just like the 79%+ on here who voted for Obama. How depressing there are
Can anyone give me a well thought-out argument for why we should re-elect Obama? I feel like every time i get into a political argument with an Obama supporter it is with some uninformed kid whose never spent time in the real world with a real job gathering real world experiences to make intelligent decisions.
Let me post an argument for why we should NOT elect this guy for another 4 years.
Start with the premise that we are NOT better off today then we were 4 years ago. Its very easy to see this if your life is based in reality - you buy your own groceries, pay for your own gas, work at a real job, etc. This is an obvious statement that most Americans agree with. Life sucks a lot more now then it did 4 years ago, and the curve is bending downward.
So with that stated, then why should we re-elect our leader who brought us here? In 2008 Obama had a 70+ seat majority in the House of Representatives. He had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. He had 70+ approval numbers. For historical comparisons, he had more power in his hands than either Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Ford, ever had. He could have passed any law he wanted without needing a single Republican vote.
With all that power, why did he not improve things? Its a simple question that doesn't need to be layered with politics or spin. Why could this guy not even lead his own party towards a solution?
When you are saying you will vote for him, you are saying that you expect him to be able to fix this country with even less power then he had in 2008. The Republicans will likely control either the House or the Senate, and will at the very least have enough seats for a filibuster.
I just fail to see a valid argument here, even if i lend as much credit to Obama as i can. He is a complete and total failure. The Democrats lost when they refused to run a candidate against him in the primary.
To answer my two favorite counterarguments before they get stated
Osama Bin Laden: I am glad Obama continued the policies he opposed as a Junior Senator. And i'm thrilled he killed OBL. But the economy was his charge when he took office in 2008. George Bush may have had his mind on national security, but the mind of the public in 2008 was clearly on the economy. For Obama killing OBL is just not a big enough deal to outweigh his failures on the economy.
Gay Marriage: Oddly this issue seems to take dominance over far more pressing concerns - like the economic stability of our country. I am in favor of gay marriage and equal rights, but i would not find myself voting for Obama over this issue - even if i trusted his new "stance" was legitimate. Its just not an issue that is critical for us to fix right now. Nor do i think the president is even going to be able to influence this decision. It is a fight between the young and the old generations. The young generation is going to win eventually. Patience is all that is needed.[/QUOTE]
So, where's your proof?
OP provided plenty of it, even from unbiased sources.
Chop chop, I'm waiting.
(Also TL:DR next time, that was even more tedious to read than a datasheet for a SoC)
[QUOTE=person11;37714232]Ah yes, the uncertainty of democracy[/QUOTE]
Actually we have democracy here, but it is fully certain. Because Putin.
For example I know who will be the president during the next 2 centuries. It's Putin no doubt.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37711299]This surely must be satire.[/QUOTE]
It was a LITTLE, but she is extremely racist and she said when I told her about the women rights she would get that "They shouldn't get raped, it's their fault."
Fuck everything.
[editline]18th September 2012[/editline]
Has anyone noticed that when you're arguing against someone who's voting for Romney that they bitch about you providing zero sources yet they don't either? I don't mean that as an insult, it's just a common thing I run into.
they shouldn't get raped, that's genius
why don't we just teach that in schools
[QUOTE=realityman;37714286][QUOTE=person11;37712363]You have no idea what the mind goes through after spending 3 hours in the basement trying to repair a broken internet connection.[/QUOTE]
[editline]18th September 2012[/editline]
You are completely and utterly clueless my friend.. just like the 79%+ on here who voted for Obama. How depressing there are
Can anyone give me a well thought-out argument for why we should re-elect Obama? I feel like every time i get into a political argument with an Obama supporter it is with some uninformed kid whose never spent time in the real world with a real job gathering real world experiences to make intelligent decisions.
Let me post an argument for why we should NOT elect this guy for another 4 years.
Start with the premise that we are NOT better off today then we were 4 years ago. Its very easy to see this if your life is based in reality - you buy your own groceries, pay for your own gas, work at a real job, etc. This is an obvious statement that most Americans agree with. Life sucks a lot more now then it did 4 years ago, and the curve is bending downward.
So with that stated, then why should we re-elect our leader who brought us here? In 2008 Obama had a 70+ seat majority in the House of Representatives. He had a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate. He had 70+ approval numbers. For historical comparisons, he had more power in his hands than either Bush, Clinton, Reagan, Carter, Ford, ever had. He could have passed any law he wanted without needing a single Republican vote.
With all that power, why did he not improve things? Its a simple question that doesn't need to be layered with politics or spin. Why could this guy not even lead his own party towards a solution?
When you are saying you will vote for him, you are saying that you expect him to be able to fix this country with even less power then he had in 2008. The Republicans will likely control either the House or the Senate, and will at the very least have enough seats for a filibuster.
I just fail to see a valid argument here, even if i lend as much credit to Obama as i can. He is a complete and total failure. The Democrats lost when they refused to run a candidate against him in the primary.
To answer my two favorite counterarguments before they get stated
Osama Bin Laden: I am glad Obama continued the policies he opposed as a Junior Senator. And i'm thrilled he killed OBL. But the economy was his charge when he took office in 2008. George Bush may have had his mind on national security, but the mind of the public in 2008 was clearly on the economy. For Obama killing OBL is just not a big enough deal to outweigh his failures on the economy.
Gay Marriage: Oddly this issue seems to take dominance over far more pressing concerns - like the economic stability of our country. I am in favor of gay marriage and equal rights, but i would not find myself voting for Obama over this issue - even if i trusted his new "stance" was legitimate. Its just not an issue that is critical for us to fix right now. Nor do i think the president is even going to be able to influence this decision. It is a fight between the young and the old generations. The young generation is going to win eventually. Patience is all that is needed.[/QUOTE]
Barely warrants a response but:
1. I know I know what I know. I have actual reasons for supporting Obama. Not only do I understand all he wanted to do, but I also understand why he did the things I do not support. Not only has Obama been a good Liberal, he has been good at compromising both his ideology and his morals. This commands respect. I am definitely informed.
2. I have been providing well thought out reasons to support Obama, you just refuse to see them as thought out. Are your reasons thought out in any way?
3. This is purely subjective. The only solution to whether someone is better off than 4 years ago is to ask them. Neither Romney nor Obama can assume one way or another. We will have to find ourselves a poll.
4. Democrats never vote as a Bloc, so the filibuster proof majority was never really there. The real problem with Congress is that the filibuster exists. Imagine what Obama could have done if there was no such thing as a filibuster? I know the fucking historical precedents, by the way.
5. Obama was mainly impeded by the Republican filibusters, as I have said, and by the Dixiecrats that infiltrated his party. Not even the greatest leader can convince a "Blue Dog Democrat" (meaning Dixiecrat) to vote for something as amazing and progressive as Healthcare reform and Financial Reform, etc.
6. You fail to see what you do not want to see. There are reasons to be disappointed in Obama. You can say that he failed at a few things. What you cannot do is say that he failed without providing some sort of reasoning (that makes sense).
7. Running a Primary against a sitting President is political suicide. Remember Carter vs Kennedy? Reagan was very grateful for that.
8. Obama has not "failed" on the economy. You do not just magic a problem solved in 4 years, especially the worst recession since 1929. Also, killing Osama is kind of a big deal. It seemed like an impossible dream right up until May 1st, 2011.
9. Obama was against Gay Marriage for a while, yes. He may have changed his stance for political reasons, yes. But who cares? The President now supports it, and that is all that matters. Gay Marriage is an important issue, just like civil rights and women's rights. Trying to say that economic issues should mute those downtrodden by discrimination is an act of Bigotry.
10. Patience is what Brooker T. Washington said in the Progressive Era about Civil Rights. It took all the way until the 60s for us to even get started with Civil Rights. Do you think the discriminated want to wait until the older generation dies out to get what they deserve? They want to live their lives out in the open without fear of discrimination! Asking for patience when sins are committed against minorities and women in this country is an act of Bigotry as well.
Jill Stein is going to be on my campus speaking this Monday, I might check that out.
So Mitt was caught brownfacing it at a speech in front of a bunch of Latinos.
Should we even comment on the matter.
so tell me this
why are you going to bother to vote? you won't make a jot of difference
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37751416]so tell me this
why are you going to bother to vote? you won't make a jot of difference[/QUOTE]
I hope to help make AZ a swing state.
We are traditionally republican, but I am hoping it is different this year.
[QUOTE=_Kent_;37751897]I hope to help make AZ a swing state.
We are traditionally republican, but I am hoping it is different this year.[/QUOTE]
but your vote won't make a difference no matter what state you're in
why bother
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37751924]but your vote won't make a difference no matter what state you're in
why bother[/QUOTE]
Jesus, with that attitude I'm wondering how and why you haven't killed yourself yet.
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37751924]but your vote won't make a difference no matter what state you're in
why bother[/QUOTE]
At the very best it shows an increasing amount of support for a party in future campaigns.
It may not change the election results that much, but enough support for a third party as an example can show interest that people are fed up with the two parties.
If I had to choose between all the candidates, it would be with Gary Johnson and the Libertarian party since I agree that the government is involved in too much everyday involvement (ironic really) and I hate mundane restrictions and regulations the main parties want.
Saved this in about August on a different forum about political compasses.
[thumb]http://filesmelt.com/dl/41168954.jpg[/thumb]
[QUOTE=The First 11'er;37710696][img]http://i.imgur.com/T3o5o.png[/img]
These are the pieces of shit I have to deal with in my city.
(they're 100% serious)[/QUOTE]
I begin to question whether or not some people deserve a good kick in the ass.
Something we should all agree on is that everyone should vote even with the dumb Electoral College
[QUOTE=person11;37753967]Something we should all agree on is that everyone should vote even with the dumb Electoral College[/QUOTE]
Get rid of the damned electoral college entirely.
[QUOTE=person11;37753967]Something we should all agree on is that everyone should vote even with the dumb Electoral College[/QUOTE]
Nah, don't vote, go march instead. If everyone marched instead of voting we might get some actual fucking change in this country.
No clearly the solution is sitting in a park for a year
[editline]21st September 2012[/editline]
Also: Romney is releasing his 2011 tax returns. Do you think he spent more on them on purpose to inflate his tax rate to the estimate 14%? Or do you think that is dumb liberal libel?
Should we care about his 2011 taxes, demand for earlier returns, or just not care at all about taxation for either of the candidates?
[QUOTE=yawmwen;37754307]Nah, don't vote, go march instead. If everyone marched instead of voting we might get some actual fucking change in this country.[/QUOTE]
sorry does the democratic process not allow for constitutional reform
Marching and Occupying are perfectly valid ways to protest.
I prefer Marching to Sitting though, it exudes no laziness.
Personally, I support Romney. I think his (limited, admittedly) economic experience from BainCapital is better than the none on Obama's side. Obama would make a good president if the main issues were civil rights, as they were in Bush's time, but in the current political climate the economy should be the #1 priority. However, both candidates are far from perfect, I just think Mittens is the lesser of two evils.
It is weird to me that being a business man gives you more experience handling the largest economy in the world than someone who has been President for four years.
Also, in what crazy world is Civil Rights, Women's Rights, and LGBTQ Rights, not as important as "the economy"?
Look, I understand that economic growth is needed, but recovery cannot be spurred on by any single political figure. The only true solutions have been repeatedly proposed by Democrats and shut down by Republicans.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;37754307]Nah, don't vote, go march instead. If everyone marched instead of voting we might get some actual fucking change in this country.[/QUOTE]
And you complained about occupy Wall Street.
That'll pretty much have the same effect.
[QUOTE=person11;37757429]It is weird to me that being a business man gives you more experience handling the largest economy in the world than someone who has been President for four years.
Also, in what crazy world is Civil Rights, Women's Rights, and LGBTQ Rights, not as important as "the economy"?
Look, I understand that economic growth is needed, but recovery cannot be spurred on by any single political figure. The only true solutions have been repeatedly proposed by Democrats and shut down by Republicans.[/QUOTE]
more importantly why do people have this conception that the president's ideology and experience will help the economy in extremely significant amounts
his role is head of the executive branch
the majority of what he does isn't really controlling the economy. he's more like the face of the US
all legislation is filtered through congress. all this weight is put on presidential elections but honestly is the president really what we need to deal with right now? I mean, yes, right now because the presidential elections are coming up, but how many times do presidential candidates say shit that they can't really do because it's out of their bounds?
[url=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120514230351/halo/images/a/a1/Halo-4-Box-Art.jpg]So hype for November 6th![/url]
most important thing of the year
[QUOTE=BoysLightUp;37756869]sorry does the democratic process not allow for constitutional reform[/QUOTE]
No, it doesn't. At least it doesn't allow for constitutional reform that actually makes the system more democratic or fair.
[QUOTE=Van-man;37757686]And you complained about occupy Wall Street.
That'll pretty much have the same effect.[/QUOTE]
No, I support the Occupy Movement.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;37761499]No, it doesn't. At least it doesn't allow for constitutional reform that actually makes the system more democratic or fair.[/QUOTE]
but what about [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution]all[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution]those[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution]constitutional[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventeenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution]reforms[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution]that[/url] [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution]happened[/url] that made the system more democratic and fair
[editline]22nd September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Van-man;37752366]Jesus, with that attitude I'm wondering how and why you haven't killed yourself yet.[/QUOTE]
so i point out a flaw in a "democratic" system and i'm told to kill myself
ty
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