• United States Presidential Election 2012 MEGATHREAD
    2,907 replies, posted
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;37776458]why (also the alternative to stupid people controlling their lives isn't necessarily smart people controlling them) but why should it be? why not judge by happiness and unhappiness? inherent contradiction more buzzwords contradictory and assumes that there has to be some kind of intentional coercion. if i violate social norms, even in a way that doesn't impose my will on others, society [I]will[/I] shame me through steadily increasing punishments as my transgression increases in magnitude. this gives de facto coercive power to the high-status individuals who shape cultural norms. it's a virtuous goal but it's not a terminal one. you should only grant people freedom (lol) if you're reasonably certain they'll be happier and better off.[/QUOTE] So... tl;dr William Wallace was delusional?
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37779255]So... tl;dr William Wallace was delusional?[/QUOTE] He was certainly nutty. Most of the conflict around Scotland was because it couldn't run itself properly.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37779335]He was certainly nutty. Most of the conflict around Scotland was because it couldn't run itself properly.[/QUOTE] But I'm talking more so about the case for freedom. The guy above me thinks the government should control us.
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37779468]But I'm talking more so about the case for freedom. The guy above me thinks the government should control us.[/QUOTE] no he doesn't
[QUOTE=yawmwen;37771954]Explain. Because it's not. How are they self contradictory? I believe people should be able to choose their leaders. We don't get to choose our leaders. About constructing a democracy? Well, a great start would be a social revolution and restructuring of our three branches. Outlaw corporate political donations, abolish the electoral college, and don't base every single process off of simple majorities and super majorities.[/QUOTE] because the american political system meets the definitive requirements of a representative democracy. people have universal suffrage and control the political process via people-elected representatives (i.e. congress, president). citizens are equal before the law and have equal access to legislative processes. furthermore, they have enabling features in civil society such as freedom of press, freedom of speech and freedom of political expression. that is democracy - that is america. your argument consists of "it's not REALLLLLLY a democracy". lobbying/political donations? unless corporations are literally buying more votes (and i mean literally), they still are subject to the same rulings as everyone else - their views may be more influential, but in no way have they unlawfully seized influence in a manner any different to any other form of lobbying. electoral college? welcome to indirect elections, unless you'd also advocate demolishing congress and returning all legislation to national referendum too. is america an imperfect democracy in practice? sure, whatever - but calling it "not a functional democracy" is simply untrue.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;37779969]no he doesn't[/QUOTE] Well he certainly isn't alluding to an understanding of freedom and liberties as something proven throughout history to largely contribute to a prosperous society. But then again democrats run facepunch, so I shouldn't come in here expecting someone to know freedom and liberties, they only think they do.
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37780895]But then again democrats run facepunch, so I shouldn't come in here expecting someone to know freedom and liberties[/QUOTE] Whoa now, what? The Democrats [I]run[/I] Facepunch?
Oh my god stop it with the "oh wow most facepunchers are liberals and dont understand x and y and they are so dumb"
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37780895]Well he certainly isn't alluding to an understanding of freedom and liberties as something proven throughout history to largely contribute to a prosperous society. But then again democrats run facepunch, so I shouldn't come in here expecting someone to know freedom and liberties, they only think they do.[/QUOTE] the forum is owned by a british person
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37780895]Well he certainly isn't alluding to an understanding of freedom and liberties as something proven throughout history to largely contribute to a prosperous society. But then again democrats run facepunch, so I shouldn't come in here expecting someone to know freedom and liberties, they only think they do.[/QUOTE] I demand the freedom and liberty to hold onto my huge piles of dosh at the threat of neglecting the poor! I might give money to charity though, but none of it to those homosexuals or other people of choice I do not like!
[QUOTE=BoysLightUp;37780072]because the american political system meets the definitive requirements of a representative democracy. people have universal suffrage and control the political process via people-elected representatives (i.e. congress, president). citizens are equal before the law and have equal access to legislative processes. furthermore, they have enabling features in civil society such as freedom of press, freedom of speech and freedom of political expression. that is democracy - that is america.[/quote] Not really. Freedom of press and equality under the law only apply to those with money. Corporate media controls what news you hear on television. [quote]your argument consists of "it's not REALLLLLLY a democracy". lobbying/political donations? unless corporations are literally buying more votes (and i mean literally), they still are subject to the same rulings as everyone else - their views may be more influential, but in no way have they unlawfully seized influence in a manner any different to any other form of lobbying. electoral college? welcome to indirect elections, unless you'd also advocate demolishing congress and returning all legislation to national referendum too. [/quote] Well, the main issue is that we don't get to choose our leaders. We are given two corporate choices. In Iran, the clerics decide who is allowed to run for office. In America, the corporate interests decide who runs for office. This isn't functional at all. If America was a functional democracy, congress wouldn't have <20% approval ratings and >80% incumbency. That's some fucking USSR "democracy" shit.
I've already explained that each individual Congressman or Senator enjoys high approval ratings. We hate the whole thing but love our representatives & continually reelect them.
[QUOTE=BoysLightUp;37780072]because the american political system meets the definitive requirements of a representative democracy. people have universal suffrage and control the political process via people-elected representatives (i.e. congress, president). citizens are equal before the law and have equal access to legislative processes. furthermore, they have enabling features in civil society such as freedom of press, freedom of speech and freedom of political expression. that is democracy - that is america. your argument consists of "it's not REALLLLLLY a democracy". lobbying/political donations? unless corporations are literally buying more votes (and i mean literally), they still are subject to the same rulings as everyone else - their views may be more influential, but in no way have they unlawfully seized influence in a manner any different to any other form of lobbying. electoral college? welcome to indirect elections, unless you'd also advocate demolishing congress and returning all legislation to national referendum too. is america an imperfect democracy in practice? sure, whatever - but calling it "not a functional democracy" is simply untrue.[/QUOTE] arguing by definition is the worst way to argue blur your eyes, don't look at the titles and names of the people that run things. look at what actually goes on
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37780895]democrats run facepunch, so I shouldn't come in here expecting someone to know freedom and liberties, they only think they do.[/QUOTE] Well they still beats Republicans since they know they're depriving people from it, and do it purely for money, power and lord godjesus.
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37780895]But then again democrats run facepunch, so I shouldn't come in here expecting someone to know freedom and liberties, they only think they do.[/QUOTE] Okay Morpheus.
[QUOTE=TH89;37791649]Okay Morpheus.[/QUOTE] You all just don't understand. You just haven't woken up to the true reality! RON PAUL 2012
In recent news, Republicans are slamming Obama for saying that he has caused "bumps in the road" during his presidency, in an act of sincere candidness. Do you think Obama just nonchalantly admitted to being a terrible President, or simply admitted that nobody is perfect? In other news, Romney has laid out plans to do "things" with NASA once he is "President or something i dunno"
[QUOTE=person11;37792008]In recent news, Republicans are slamming Obama for saying that he has caused "bumps in the road" during his presidency, in an act of sincere candidness. Do you think Obama just nonchalantly admitted to being a terrible President, or simply admitted that nobody is perfect? In other news, Romney has laid out plans to do "things" with NASA once he is "President or something i dunno"[/QUOTE] I think the bumps in the road comment is pretty dumb. Egypt elects their own government? Bumps in the road! Iran continues to resist bullying from the USA and Israel? Bumps in the road! A humanitarian crisis in Libya due to civil war? Bumps in the road!
I think it is dumb that people are making such a big deal from simple vernacular. Obama simply meant that bad things can always happen, and that nobody is immune for making mistakes. I do not think Obama was trying to trivialize anything when he said what he said. Also, what is the process in changing a thread title? It would be nice to include the Debate Dates in the title. In addition, I will write up a post summarizing the topics for each debate.
So my dad is a Republican, a quite moderate one too. But he wants to vote for Romney because he thinks that Obongo's recent healthcare reform (the one that starts in 2014) is bad and wants to vote for Romney. The problem is, is that Romney is a dumb-ass and probably has anti-social personality disorder and should not be the person in power(also flip flops a tonne). How can I convince my father that his choice is so silly?
[QUOTE=ClarkWasHere;37799662]So my dad is a Republican, a quite moderate one too. But he wants to vote for Romney because he thinks that Obongo's recent healthcare reform (the one that starts in 2014) is bad and wants to vote for Romney. The problem is, is that Romney is a dumb-ass and probably has anti-social personality disorder and should not be the person in power(also flip flops a tonne). How can I convince my father that his choice is so silly?[/QUOTE] you're probably better off just letting your dad believes whatever he wants to believe. probably not worth the effort or potential backlash
[QUOTE=ClarkWasHere;37799662]So my dad is a Republican, a quite moderate one too. But he wants to vote for Romney because he thinks that Obongo's recent healthcare reform (the one that starts in 2014) is bad and wants to vote for Romney. The problem is, is that Romney is a dumb-ass and probably has anti-social personality disorder and should not be the person in power(also flip flops a tonne). How can I convince my father that his choice is so silly?[/QUOTE]Might be worth mentioning to him that Obamacare is heavily based off Romneycare.
Just got my voting registration card in the mail! Going to vote for Obama, then try to vote that bastard Arpaio out of the sheriff's office.
Bumping this thread because the first debate is tonight! I have class during the first hour and a half of the debate but I should try to write something about the issue at hand: [b]The Economy[/b]. State of the Economy: Since 2007, people knew that something was wrong. Production started to slow down, prices started to lower, the stock market stagnated and eventually started falling, and unemployment was steadily going up. Though nobody realized it until later, the United States entered a recession in December 2007, before the crash occurred. Fast-forward to September 2008, Obama is trailing McCain in polls nationwide after the introduction of Sarah Palin as Vice President (people did not realize who she was yet). Obama's suporters started to fear that Hilary Clinton was right, maybe Obama did not have what it took to go against McCain! When everything went to hell (Lehman Brothers declared bankruptcy, world economy went to hell and so did the US Stock Market), the Obama Campaign decided to turn that into his main issue instead of Foreign Policy (he had based his Campaign on restoring the reputation of the United States). The Campaign immediately started proposing different stimulus bills that could save the Economy if Obama was elected. McCain's campaign had no plan besides cutting taxes. During every following debate, Obama had the advantage because people noticed that he had a cool head, and was not panicking about the Economy going into freefall. This is what turned Obama around in the polls, ultimately leading to a victory for the Democrat. Now, the Economy is Obama's worst issue, and the biggest thing he has to panic about in tonights debate with Romney. Unemployment has been at around 8% (down from 10%) for most of Obama's Presidency, and growth has been above the Western average, but still much lower than most people would like. Romney's supporters tell us that Obama failed to take care of the economy, without offering any plan for what he should have done. The situation is bad enough that people trust Romney more with economic issues than Obama anyway. People say the blah blah blah I am ranting too much here is what each candidate has to do during the debate tonight Obama: - Repeatedly give statistics showing that the Economy is back on track - Repeatedly emphasize that Obama has a Jobs Act that would solve a large part of the Unemployment problem if the Republicans did not block it - Talk about the Buffet Rule and Romney's 14% Tax Rate and the Income Gap - Show that the Stimulus Bill did what it was supposed to do - Talk about having saved Detroit from total annihilation when Romney did not want to - Talk about Bain - Repeatedly show that Romney has never given anyone specifics of what he would have done differently to "save" the Economy besides cutting taxes for the rich Romney: - Repeatedly say that Obama's policies have failed the get the Economy growing again - Accuse Obama of Class Warfare against the rich - Emphasize the Unemployment Rate and slow Growth Rate - "Are you better off now than four years ago" - "You can trust me, I am a business man!" - Make it sound like Debt is the end of the world - Accuse Obama of trying to destroy Medicare, other dumb things [editline]3rd October 2012[/editline] adding this to the OP
[url=http://www.youtube.com/politics?feature=inp-bp-ype-01]Youtube is streaming it of course[/url]
Another thing to do during the debates: imagine Ron Paul was with Obama & Romney & act out evything he would say to them.
Can't wait for the debate. Will be the first time I've actually seen Obama and Romney one-on-one without any scripted speeches there Public Relation reps spent months making.
[QUOTE=SockFC;37901658]Can't wait for the debate. Will be the first time I've actually seen Obama and Romney one-on-one without any scripted speeches there Public Relation reps spent months making.[/QUOTE] give them 2 minutes after they walk off stage to start throwing dust into the air while they make the whole thing disappear.
I think this sums up the debate [img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbcgzgdVDr1r42s8uo1_500.png[/img]
All Romney's doing is attacking Obama...
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