• United States Presidential Election 2012 MEGATHREAD
    2,907 replies, posted
[QUOTE=yawmwen;38334618]It does a little bit, not a whole lot.[/QUOTE] With respect, this is not a thing you are really in a place to judge accurately.
[QUOTE=person11;38334723]The Supreme Court is the final say on any major issue. The only way we can come close to solving just a few of our major civil rights problems would be if Obama appointed two Liberals to be in the Supreme Court[/QUOTE] I disagree. Our major civil rights issues are issues that by their nature cannot be solved through the legal system. They are societal issues that cannot be legislated. There are some things that can be fixed through the courts like the institutional persecution of gays within the federal government or the restriction on gay marriage. However, how do you solve the disproportionate poverty among blacks through the courts? How do you solve the issue of sanctioned police brutality through the courts? [editline]6th November 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=TH89;38334803]With respect, this is not a thing you are really in a place to judge accurately.[/QUOTE] Neither are you.
[QUOTE=Rammlied;37598844]Everyone who voted Romney needs to be kicked off the island.[/QUOTE] What island?
*apparently* obama is about to hold a teleforum im on music hold. if i didnt answer on my ipod i would record it
[QUOTE=yawmwen;38334825]Neither are you.[/QUOTE] Which is why I listen to what homosexuals and people of color have to say on the subject instead of unilaterally declaring it to be Not A Big Deal.
he sounds exhausted :(
[QUOTE=jordguitar;38335039]he sounds exhausted :([/QUOTE] i talked to someone who went to a rally recently(yesterday?) and he said he sounded pretty hoarse. i'm betting at this point that the candidates are basically getting a couple hours of sleep a night at the most.
[QUOTE=TH89;38335034]Which is why I listen to what homosexuals and people of color have to say on the subject instead of unilaterally declaring it to be Not A Big Deal.[/QUOTE] Being white doesn't mean you aren't allowed to have opinions or look at a subject. Just because someone is black doesn't mean that their opinion on civil rights is more valid. I mean if you watch Fox News enough you see plenty of black people basically calling out blacks as being racist or inferior or undeserving. Instead of saying "you can't talk about this because you aren't black/gay/a woman," tell me how these issues are important, or how you can fix major issues through our judicial system.
if romney gets pennsylvania and scott walker's state, its all over, even if obama gets ohio look i was born in 1994, im not gonna lie about that, and i honestly dont give 2 shits about what you want to sleep with or what color you are, if i dont like your policies, i hate you i dont like obama, i dont like the hate mongering, race card playing douch his campaign has made of him, and i personaly don't like his policies about drone warfare, internet privacies, and many other issues.
[img]http://i.imgur.com/VrBRe.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Sableye;38335171]if romney gets pennsylvania and scott walker's state, its all over, even if obama gets ohio[/QUOTE] Pennsylvania is not in play for romney. All republicans go there on the final day thinking they can turn it red, it hasnt. [editline]6th November 2012[/editline] hell 538 now has obama chance of winning at 91 percent IF Pennsylvania and Wisconsin go red, and the rest of the swing states go blue, its 302 to 236 obama He has to get flordia and one other state to go red to make it happen (unless its flordia and new hampshire in which case its a tie and all hell breaks loose) Quick research: Wisconsin turnout in 2008: 70 percent of all eligible voters voted in the presidential election Wisconsin turnout in 2010 (governor election): The GAB predicted a 50 percent turnout and we got around that number (+/- 2 percent either way I would assume from a news source) I do think that we will stay blue for national elections.
[QUOTE=Sableye;38335171]if romney gets pennsylvania and scott walker's state, its all over, even if obama gets ohio [/QUOTE] lol if you seriously think WI is in play for Romney [editline]5th November 2012[/editline] [img]http://i.imgur.com/DK4ca.jpg[/img] He's also got Florida at 52% Obama now.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;38335090]Instead of saying "you can't talk about this because you aren't black/gay/a woman," tell me how these issues are important, or how you can fix major issues through our judicial system.[/QUOTE] Except I never said "you can't talk about this," I said that you, as a white dude, basically downplaying and blowing off discrimination against minority groups of which you are not a member is a blindingly self-absorbed and stupid thing to say. You don't need a PhD in race studies from Oxford to be able to see that. All you need is an iota of self-awareness and perspective. Also, going "if you want me to care about your civil rights why don't you *educate me* instead of being rude!!!" is also entitled as hell, but [url=http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/blog/black-powers-gonna-get-you-sucka-right-wing-paranoia-and-the-rhetoric-of-modern]here you go[/url], have fun reading.
The ONLY reason Wisconsin is a swing state is because of 2 things: A) The recall from this year B) Paul Ryan and him being hidden from everyone
[QUOTE=Lazor;38335259]lol if you seriously think WI is in play for Romney [editline]5th November 2012[/editline] [img]http://i.imgur.com/DK4ca.jpg[/img] He's also got Florida at 52% Obama now.[/QUOTE] This makes me happy. I find those graphs really interesting, too. How Obama's chances tanked right after the Denver debate and slowly climbed back up to be higher than they've ever been (and vice-versa for Rmoney). Yes, very interesting.
[QUOTE=Kirbunny431;38335439]This makes me happy. I find those graphs really interesting, too. How Obama's chances tanked right after the Denver debate and slowly climbed back up to be higher than they've ever been (and vice-versa for Rmoney). Yes, very interesting.[/QUOTE] Sandy was a October Surprise and tanked Romneys entire campaign when models came in saying it was going to hit NYC
Ohio is no longer listed under competitive states on Nate's blog. [img]http://fi.somethingawful.com/safs/smilies/f/0/getin.001.gif[/img]
[QUOTE=TH89;38335368]Except I never said "you can't talk about this," I said that you, as a white dude, basically downplaying and blowing off discrimination against minority groups of which you are not a member is a blindingly self-absorbed and stupid thing to say. You don't need a PhD in race studies from Oxford to be able to see that. All you need is an iota of self-awareness and perspective. Also, going "if you want me to care about your civil rights why don't you *educate me* instead of being rude!!!" is also entitled as hell, but [URL="http://redroom.com/member/tim-wise/blog/black-powers-gonna-get-you-sucka-right-wing-paranoia-and-the-rhetoric-of-modern"]here you go[/URL], have fun reading.[/QUOTE] Why don't you stop making shit up TH89. You act as if I am downplaying civil rights by saying these superficial and artificial issues are generally inconsequential to the state of minorities, which is just plain ignorant. How about instead of creating a voting group of poor black democrats dependent on welfare, or creating a scared, racist, white republican voting group bent on "taking their country back" we actually address these societal issues? The democrats and republicans both benefit off of the division of blacks and whites because they are able to mobilize voters, and it's in their best interest to keep racial tensions consistently high. I don't believe that you can simply legislate these issues away, and the supreme court is certainly not in the game of changing society. The government cannot solve these issues, the government has a stake in keeping these issues going. These are things that communities and society itself needs to organize against. There needs to be more "slut walks", there needs to be more people out on the streets whenever a poor black man is murdered by the police. It's absolutely ignorant and simplistic to look at the supreme court as being able to solve anything substantive. In fact, these attitudes take a conscious effort to sustain because of how out of touch they are with reality. Sure, there are some things that are totally beneficial, but they aren't an ends and in fact are not really even a means, just a source of temporary comfort. And by the way, your link is mostly a denouncement of an ideology that ignores and perpetuates these societal issues, which is ironic considering that you are basically ignoring them as well.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;38335578]How about instead of creating a voting group of poor black democrats dependent on welfare[/QUOTE] ':I [QUOTE=yawmwen;38335578]I don't believe that you can simply legislate these issues away, and the supreme court is certainly not in the game of changing society.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's not like the Supreme Court has played any substantial role in civil rights in the past 100 years oh wait [QUOTE=yawmwen;38335578]And by the way, your link is mostly a denouncement of an ideology that ignores and perpetuates these societal issues, which is ironic considering that you are basically ignoring them as well.[/QUOTE] Yep that's me, Mr. Ignoring Racism.
[QUOTE=TH89;38335599]':I[/QUOTE] Would you say that the Democratic Party has not greatly benefited politically from creating welfare dependence among minority groups? Don't tell me that you actually think welfare is effective in its current state.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;38335611]Would you say that the Democratic Party has not greatly benefited politically from creating welfare dependence among minority groups? Don't tell me that you actually think welfare is effective in its current state.[/QUOTE] You're basically repeating an unfounded Republican talking point that's based on a pernicious racial stereotype, so
[QUOTE=TH89;38335627]You're basically repeating an unfounded Republican talking point that's based on a pernicious racial stereotype, so[/QUOTE] Nice title, really drives the point home.
[QUOTE=TH89;38335627]You're basically repeating an unfounded Republican talking point that's based on a pernicious racial stereotype, so[/QUOTE] This isn't based on a racial stereotype at all, this is based on a political stereotype, namely that political parties gain great benefit from creating loyal voting groups. You are simply ignoring another facet of racism that is inherent to the Democratic Party. The idea is that blacks are only useful as voters and talking points. The Democrats have gotten very good at talking about racial issues to garner support without actually doing anything about it.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;38335670]This isn't based on a racial stereotype at all, this is based on a political stereotype, namely that political parties gain great benefit from creating loyal voting groups. You are simply ignoring another facet of racism that is inherent to the Democratic Party. The idea is that blacks are only useful as voters and talking points. The Democrats have gotten very good at talking about racial issues to garner support without actually doing anything about it.[/QUOTE] Except, like, voting in favor of bills that address racial inequity, and appointing Supreme Court Justices who do the same. What was it we were talking about again?
[QUOTE=TH89;38335700]Except, like, voting in favor of bills that address racial inequity, and appointing Supreme Court Justices who do the same. What was it we were talking about again?[/QUOTE] Ok please tell me how you legislate racial equality? How do you solve: "white job applicants with criminal records have a better chance of being called back for an interview than black applicants without one, even when all the qualifications are the same?" "black males with college degrees are almost twice as likely as their white male counterparts to be out of work?" " the lightest-skinned immigrants to the United States make as much as 15 percent more than the darkest, even when the immigrants in question have the same level of education, experience and measured productivity?" "to the effect that blacks are far more likely than whites to have their cars and persons searched after a traffic stop, even though whites, when searched, are more than four times as likely to have drugs or other illegal contraband on us?" (all taken from your link) through the legislative process? How can you write bills that address these issues? These are things that we need to fight as people, not wait for a racist government to solve for us.
-rip probably a bad argument-
[QUOTE=yawmwen;38335826]Ok please tell me how you legislate racial equality? How do you solve: "white job applicants with criminal records have a better chance of being called back for an interview than black applicants without one, even when all the qualifications are the same?" "black males with college degrees are almost twice as likely as their white male counterparts to be out of work?" " the lightest-skinned immigrants to the United States make as much as 15 percent more than the darkest, even when the immigrants in question have the same level of education, experience and measured productivity?" "to the effect that blacks are far more likely than whites to have their cars and persons searched after a traffic stop, even though whites, when searched, are more than four times as likely to have drugs or other illegal contraband on us?" (all taken from your link) through the legislative process? How can you write bills that address these issues? These are things that we need to fight as people, not wait for a racist government to solve for us.[/QUOTE] All of these things are problematic, but what other than affirmative action to correct the imbalances could you do? If you're suggesting personal campaigns to convince others not to be racist, for a lot of people that time commitment simply isn't feasible.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;38335826]Ok please tell me how you legislate racial equality? How do you solve: "white job applicants with criminal records have a better chance of being called back for an interview than black applicants without one, even when all the qualifications are the same?" "black males with college degrees are almost twice as likely as their white male counterparts to be out of work?" " the lightest-skinned immigrants to the United States make as much as 15 percent more than the darkest, even when the immigrants in question have the same level of education, experience and measured productivity?" "to the effect that blacks are far more likely than whites to have their cars and persons searched after a traffic stop, even though whites, when searched, are more than four times as likely to have drugs or other illegal contraband on us?" (all taken from your link) through the legislative process? How can you write bills that address these issues? These are things that we need to fight as people, not wait for a racist government to solve for us.[/QUOTE] okay look if someone steals someone else's bike and i see it i'm not going to go "oh well, wasn't a car, no point trying to get the government to fix it" you are making the same argument. These are more societal issues, but it doesn't hurt to address these issues from the government's point of view
[QUOTE=Megafan;38335878]All of these things are problematic, but what other than affirmative action to correct the imbalances could you do? If you're suggesting personal campaigns to convince others not to be racist, for a lot of people that time commitment simply isn't feasible.[/QUOTE] But that's what has to happen. Societal change cannot be dictated by a corrupt government, societal change can only be changed through the people themselves becoming disgusted with the idea. If you think that is unfeasible then you are simply lazy. We cannot wait on the government to fix our problems, we need to create our own destiny and our own society.
i think obama's got this, but im seriously freaked out with all these news about voter frauds and riggings by the republicans, does anyone know if they can seriously affect the election or is it just temp. setback?
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