United States Presidential Election 2012 MEGATHREAD
2,907 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Kabstrac;37599702]antigovernmentextremist.tumblr.[/QUOTE]
"I hate the government becyz I cant smoke mah kush bro."
Lol, I'm not anti government, I just really have a bone to pick with our fiscal and foreign policies.
[QUOTE]It's as simple as that. where's the change at Obama?[/QUOTE]
It's difficult to build a house when your colleagues keep stealing your wood.
the crux of your argument is basically: "it's bad because it's bad, ban income tax and use gold standard".
it hurts my head to read it
Care to elaborate?
gold standard would destroy the global economy
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37599609]-blah blah taxes and stuff-[/quote]
So without taxes, how is the government supposed to function?
Also, we've been over the NDAA so many times. The NDAA was the budget for the entire military. No NDAA, no money for the military. Not only that, but it had enough support in congress to override a veto anyway.
[QUOTE=thisispain;37599843]the crux of your argument is basically: "it's bad because it's bad, ban income tax and use gold standard".
it hurts my head to read it[/QUOTE]
No, I'm not sure where you're getting this from. I'm not sure if you're going after a logical fallacy, or you're actually confused about some of the meaning in which I attempted to convey. Either way, ask me and I can explain, or maybe refute something. Unlike most I am not here to argue, I'm interested and totally open to learning and knowing if I'm wrong about something.
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37599865]No, I'm not sure where you're getting this from. I'm not sure if you're going after a logical fallacy, or you're actually confused about some of the meaning in which I attempted to convey. Either way, ask me and I can explain, or maybe refute something. Unlike most I am not here to argue, I'm interested and totally open to learning and knowing if I'm wrong about something.[/QUOTE]
this actually gave me a physical headache
[editline]9th September 2012[/editline]
"or you're actually confused about some of the meaning in which I attempted to convey."
wtf
[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;37599854]So without taxes, how is the government supposed to function?
Also, we've been over the NDAA so many times. The NDAA was the budget for the entire military. No NDAA, no money for the military. Not only that, but it had enough support in congress to override a veto anyway.[/QUOTE]
The fact that it wasn't vetoed says a lot to me about Obama's character, even if it wouldn't have stopped it from being passed. But why, if it's part of the budget, did someone have to dock on the parts that strip liberties from the people? So it's okay to take liberties from the people as long as they add it onto a bill that has to do with funding something? Well I guess Washington is catching on then.
About taxes, go look at the actual percent of government revenue comes from income tax. I'm not going to throw out a random number, but i remember it's surprisingly low. But I want to ask you this to also answer your question: Has a government ever not been able to function when there is no income tax? Let me give you a hint, the U.S. has not always had an income tax.
[editline]9th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Killerjc;37599850]gold standard would destroy the global economy[/QUOTE]
How? Also I never said "gold standard", but I still would like to know why you say this.
[QUOTE=fekedout;37598597]if you vote romney you are literally retarded[/QUOTE]
Or rich.
there's nothing to refute you just made a whole bunch of claims and linked to articles that make the same claims
[quote]salaries hardly adjust to inflation[/quote]
whaT
WHAT
what was the average salary in 1975?
$10,218
average salary in 2010?
$47,022
$10,218 adjusted for inflation today: $43,479
so uh
please stop using the "austrian school" of economics because magic has more evidence than the austrian school
[editline]9th September 2012[/editline]
and you use the phrase "keynesian economics" in places that don't even make sense
Current inflation is calculated from 1982 onward (or something like that). Also, I have a feeling you used calculated the purchasing power of what $10,218 would buy the equivalence of today, which does not reflect salaries adjusting for inflation.
If Obama ran for Prime Minister in Australia he would get voted straight away. We all love him here.
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37599973]Also, I have a feeling you used calculated the purchasing power of what $10,218 would buy the equivalence of today, which does not reflect salaries adjusting for inflation.[/QUOTE]
i didn't calculate anything, this is the US government's own census and calculations.
[url]http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/p60-239.pdf[/url]
inflation has happened, and the salaries have adjusted.
in your strange theory you said that the income gap was generated by inflation because the "salaries hardly adjust to inflation", [b]no-one believes this[/b].
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States#Causes[/url]
The reason why I say this is because of the unpredictable speed of price inflation. Ill give an example:
If the dollar lost say 10% of it's value in a year, why couldn't I got to my boss and say, I need a 10% raise?
There are a couple of reasons.
First, for your boss to give you 10% more, he would have to make 10% more. Are the goods or services he provides going up 10%? As inflation starts to pick up, most businesses can't just charge more because they will lose customers(as they have to pay more for other essential goods). So if your employer is a farmer or produces oil, essential things, then he can keep up with inflation much much better than other employers. Second, the money is coming from the banks. The increase in money supply is directly from the fed via the banks. So if you owned or worked at a bank, you theoretically could get a raise to keep up with inflation. Banks do nothing but sell inflated assets to the fed and now everyone else has to suffer the consequences.
So your wages will move up as inflation moves up. As to the rate, it matters how essential your work is. And since the money is coming from the banks(who produce nothing), everyone except the banks will be a poorer than they would have been given no inflation.
except they aren't poorer, that's the point of controlling the monetary supply. if the dollar would lose 10% of its value the federal reserve would respond with an action that would increase or decrease the value of the dollar on international markets.
you're squeezing complex systems into terrible simplifications without even understanding the point of controlling the monetary supply.
you also don't seem to actually understand economics when it comes to the role of the dollar.
inflation is good for the economy, it increases US exports because it makes our prices more competitive. it is then the federal reserve's job to control the money supply in order to keep credit at a reasonable level.
what happened in the economic crisis is that the value of the dollar went up due to lack of demand and people could buy less goods with the same US dollar and had less money to spend which destroyed the housing market. the Fed then had to save the economy by rapidly increasing the amount of money and reducing the value of the dollar which would allow people to get confidence and start buying and selling again.
[url]http://useconomy.about.com/od/glossary/g/Monetary_policy.htm[/url]
This honestly has nothing to do with salaries adjusting for inflation, I just explained how they don't and how you become poorer because inflation essentially makes you poorer if you're not higher up on the ladder.
[editline]9th September 2012[/editline]
And I completely disagree with your reasoning for the economic crisis, I laughed a little.
you didn't EXPLAIN anything, you just said it was without offering any proof or reasoning
inflation doesn't make anyone poorer, that's the point of having a monetary policy
you say you love the free market yet you don't even know how it works?
You answered not accounting for the fact im talking about the unpredictable speed of inflation that would not be tallied until the end of the year.
if obama loses then ill be very mad because that means tony abbott will have an excuse to fuck australia harder when he wins here next election
i dont like being mad :(
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37600208]
And I completely disagree with your reasoning for the economic crisis, I laughed a little.[/QUOTE]
then you disagree with how the economy works which is interesting
not a single economist would disagree with the mechanics of how an economic crisis happens. they might disagree with why there's a lack of demand, or why the dollar value went up, but nobody except some random dude on FP actually disagree with the mechanics of the economy.
seriously i was taught this in school, this shouldn't be hard
[editline]9th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37600234]You answered not accounting for the fact im talking about the unpredictable speed of inflation that would not be tallied until the end of the year.[/QUOTE]
inflation is good. if there's too much inflation the point of the Fed is to counter-act it
and a gold supply isn't inflation-proof either.
inflation is a good thing it encourages spending and not hording all your money and having things stagnate
defaltion is bad because it encourages hording and making the market stagnate
also free market is bad, libertarianism is dumb, internet ron paul fans are stupid and unironically support a racist dickweed.
cant wait for the debates. Romney is going to tear Obama apart and Ryan/Biden is no contest.
[QUOTE=thisispain;37600241]then you disagree with how the economy works which is interesting
not a single economist would disagree with the mechanics of how an economic crisis happens. they might disagree with why there's a lack of demand, or why the dollar value went up, but nobody except some random dude on FP actually disagree with the mechanics of the economy.
seriously i was taught this in school, this shouldn't be hard
[editline]9th September 2012[/editline]
inflation is good. if there's too much inflation the point of the Fed is to counter-act it
and a gold supply isn't inflation-proof either.[/QUOTE]
Yes I'm saying our economy is flawed. Also economists have explicitly stated they can't for sure say what caused the recession. Also to argue inflation is good is crazy, because when it inflates purchasing power decreases.
"inflation is good. if there's too much inflation the point of the Fed is to counter-act it" Again, you're missing my point about how inflation is tallied at the end of the year, and not accounted for more so instantaneous inflation, which I explained this is how people are robbed.
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37600309]Yes I'm saying our economy is flawed. Also economists have explicitly stated they can't for sure say what caused the recession.[/QUOTE]
yeah but they don't disagree on what a recession is or how a recession becomes a recession
unless they're called "Relaxation" I GUESS
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37600309]to argue inflation is good is crazy, because when it inflates purchasing power decreases.[/QUOTE]
good so economists are crazy that's good to know!!
[url]http://business.time.com/2011/02/03/is-inflation-good-for-the-economy/[/url]
[url]http://useconomy.about.com/b/2011/09/15/why-a-little-inflation-is-good.htm[/url]
[url]http://www.investorguide.com/igu-article-926-economic-trends-is-inflation-really-good-for-the-economy.html[/url]
[url]http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2012/01/inflation[/url]
i think by now i'm just going to dismiss your arguments
nothing personal, it's just you don't really know what you're talking about
[editline]9th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37600309]you're missing my point about how inflation is tallied at the end of the year, and not accounted for more so instantaneous inflation, which I explained this is how people are robbed.[/QUOTE]
instantaneous inflation
instantaneous
inflation
inflation is over time genius
Hang on a second, we were talking about a specific economic crisis, not all of them as a whole. I never disagreed on what a recession is or how it became a recession, I disagreed with the reasoning you gave for the 2008 recession.
Again, you miss my point about inflation tallied at the end of the year, and you post articles such as "why A LITTLE inflation is good." I explained how it is bad, based on how it's tallied, but you refute that and answer the argument as if i am agreeing that it's good to tally it at the end,
Basically your argument is moot and hasn't even been a sufficient argument back. Of course you think I don't know what I'm talking about when you don't have the capacity to understand the argument to begin with,
[editline]9th September 2012[/editline]
You're right, things don't inflate day to day, that's why we just wait til the end of the year and pull a number out of our ass. By instantaneous, I mean more so rapid changes vs. averaging it at the end of the year. Kind of funny that figure is taken and applied to the next year. If you can't see the problem here, I don't think I can simplify it down any more than what I've done.
[editline]9th September 2012[/editline]
Also it's ignorant to assume that economic crisis are one cohesive body that all happen for the same reasons.
[editline]9th September 2012[/editline]
Something interesting to note: The past two chairmen of the Federal Reserve are on paper saying inflation, Federal Reserve, and fiat currencies are harmful, bit after obtain the position of chairmen, they had a change in heart.
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37600400]Hang on a second, we were talking about a specific economic crisis, not all of them as a whole. I never disagreed on what a recession is or how it became a recession, I disagreed with the reasoning you gave for the 2008 recession.[/QUOTE]
that wasn't my reasoning, that's the mechanics of a recession.
the same exact thing happened in the great depression as well.
[quote]You're right, things don't inflate day to day, that's why we just wait til the end of the year and pull a number out of our ass.[/quote]
huh
wait what
pull a number out of our ass what are you talking about, who pulls a number out of who's ass?
[quote]you don't have the capacity to understand the argument to begin with[/quote]
yeah you're right, i don't because it doesn't make any sense, i'm arguing with a crazy person who thinks inflation is made up!
[editline]9th September 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37600400]
Something interesting to note: The past two chairmen of the Federal Reserve are on paper saying inflation, Federal Reserve, and fiat currencies are harmful, bit after obtain the position of chairmen, they had a change in heart.[/QUOTE]
you're right it's a conspiracy whop whoop
I don't think inflation is made up? Although I do think it's a bit wrong that CPI doesn't calculate food and energy.
And I am talking about the reasoning for this last recession, not the mechanics.
[QUOTE=Relaxation;37600496]I don't think inflation is made up?[/QUOTE]
so...
what are we pulling out of our ass then
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