United States Presidential Election 2012 MEGATHREAD
2,907 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38360458]Well he did ask for an example of liberal ignorance.[/QUOTE]
So you take a simple mistake and twist it?
Jeez, there's an example of conservative ignorance.
[QUOTE=Ponder;38360474]So you take a simple mistake and twist it?
Jeez, there's an example of conservative ignorance.[/QUOTE]
[url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1210897&p=38360226&viewfull=1#post38360226]No, I provided real examples as well.[/url]
what next, communist ignorance?
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38360458]Well he did ask for an example of liberal ignorance.[/QUOTE]
Because you've never said something different from what you meant before.
And don't think this is some sort of defense for "liberals", if someone says something by accident or in a speech, I point it to just messing up.
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38360295]Seeing as how a good chunk (if not the majority) of Obama's base are welfare dependents and/or stoners, how can you honestly claim that your side isn't ignorant? Don't get me wrong, there are crazy, ignorant, and bigoted people on both sides, but it's hardly as partisan as you try to make it out to be.[/QUOTE]
Both sides are awful. I see the right overreacting and acting childish over President Obama's reelection. I see a lot of the left also trying to claim moral high ground while putting down Romney supporters. My opinion on a lot of people during this election, especially on this forum, has changed drastically in the past few weeks.
[QUOTE=laserguided;38360487]what next, communist ignorance?[/QUOTE]
We already have that, it's called the Obama Jobs Pamphlet.
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38360524]We already have that, it's called the Obama Jobs Pamphlet.[/QUOTE]
Annd I'm done here.
[QUOTE=Ponder;38360542]Annd I'm done here.[/QUOTE]
It's called a joke.
[QUOTE=Agoat;38360506]Both sides are awful. I see the right overreacting and acting childish over President Obama's reelection. I see a lot of the left also trying to claim moral high ground while putting down Romney supporters. My opinion on a lot of people during this election, especially on this forum, has changed drastically in the past few weeks.[/QUOTE]
why do people insist that obama is on the left
he's to the left of bill o'reilly, hitler and satan but it doesn't make him any less of a centre-right politician than he always has been
[QUOTE=Agoat;38360506]Both sides are awful. I see the right overreacting and acting childish over President Obama's reelection. I see a lot of the left also trying to claim moral high ground while putting down Romney supporters. My opinion on a lot of people during this election, especially on this forum, has changed drastically in the past few weeks.[/QUOTE]
Perhaps you're using the term in a way I don't understand, but in what way is claiming the moral high ground a bad thing?
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38360318]According to Joe Biden, it's a "FIVE-HUNDRED TRILLION DOLLAR TAX CUT!"
[video=youtube;di7R3VpcuAg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di7R3VpcuAg[/video][/QUOTE]
I love Biden. He's so adorable and he seems really kind.
I just want to build a house in my backyard and keep him there forever.
[QUOTE=Megafan;38360568]Perhaps you're using the term in a way I don't understand, but in what way is claiming the moral high ground a bad thing?[/QUOTE]
Because then you can chop off the other's leg and arm with the highground.
[QUOTE=Bobie;38360561]why do people insist that obama is on the left
he's to the left of bill o'reilly, hitler and satan but it doesn't make him any less of a centre-right politician than he always has been[/QUOTE]
I didn't say Obama is on the left.
Yeah!
[img]http://puu.sh/1nBBk[/img]
[QUOTE=Megafan;38360568]Perhaps you're using the term in a way I don't understand, but in what way is claiming the moral high ground a bad thing?[/QUOTE]
False moral high ground is a better term.
[QUOTE=Bobie;38360561]why do people insist that obama is on the left
he's to the left of bill o'reilly, hitler and satan but it doesn't make him any less of a centre-right politician than he always has been[/QUOTE]
Hitler was pretty left-wing and O'Reilly is hated by conservatives. Satan doesn't exist, so I'm not exactly sure how to respond to that.
He's very radical left-wing in America, European standards don't really matter. Every country is different and has it's own culture, politics, etc.
[QUOTE=Bobie;38360561]why do people insist that obama is on the left
he's to the left of bill o'reilly, hitler and satan but it doesn't make him any less of a centre-right politician than he always has been[/QUOTE]
I would make an analogy like this:
Imagine you have two sheets of paper. One is a fairly light shade of grey, and one is quite a dark shade of grey. Would you then argue to me that the lighter sheet of paper is in fact white, simply because it is lighter than the darker sheet of paper? Additionally, would you argue that both sheets are the same exact colour?
I think you'd be hard pressed to say yes to either one, but substitute the American 'left' for the light grey paper and the American 'right' for the dark grey paper and that about sums it up.
[editline]7th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Agoat;38360614]False moral high ground is a better term.[/QUOTE]
And what might that mean? There's being antagonistic certainly, but what specifically does 'false moral high ground' refer to?
[editline]7th November 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38360617]Hitler was pretty left-wing and O'Reilly is hated by conservatives. Satan doesn't exist, so I'm not exactly sure how to respond to that.[/QUOTE]
You're starting to look more and more like a gimmick account, but do go on.
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38360617]Hitler was pretty left-wing and O'Reilly is hated by conservatives. Satan doesn't exist, so I'm not exactly sure how to respond to that.
He's very radical left-wing in America, European standards don't really matter. Every country is different and has it's own culture, politics, etc.[/QUOTE]
friendly drone strikes, warm loving anti-drug policy, allowing tax havens and paving the way for environment destroying pipelines doesn't sound very 'radical left wing'
you been watchin too much fox news boy
[QUOTE=Nikota;38360607]Yeah!
[img]http://puu.sh/1nBBk[/img][/QUOTE]
Romney supporters must be so mad. "CURSE YOU, GARY JOHNSON!"
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38360617]Hitler was pretty left-wing and O'Reilly is hated by conservatives. Satan doesn't exist, so I'm not exactly sure how to respond to that.
He's very radical left-wing in America, European standards don't really matter. Every country is different and has it's own culture, politics, etc.[/QUOTE]
Hitler wasn't left-wing at all.
Obama isn't radical left-wing even by American standards.
You want to see our left wing? Go read the Green Party Platform. Green is effectively the most left we are without counting the fringe(but growing) anarchist/socialist movement in the USA.
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38360617]Hitler was pretty left-wing and O'Reilly is hated by conservatives. Satan doesn't exist, so I'm not exactly sure how to respond to that.
He's very radical left-wing in America, European standards don't really matter. Every country is different and has it's own culture, politics, etc.[/QUOTE]
Hitler was a fascist, the very definition of "right-wing".
Obama is almost certainly right of center from the perspective of the whole world.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;38360652]Hitler wasn't left-wing at all.
Obama isn't radical left-wing even by American standards.
You want to see our left wing? Go read the Green Party Platform. Green is effectively the most left we are without counting the fringe(but growing) anarchist/socialist movement in the USA.[/QUOTE]
But..They have the word Socialist in their party!
[QUOTE=Megafan;38360621]And what might that mean? There's being antagonistic certainly, but what specifically does 'false moral high ground' refer to?[/QUOTE]
Rather than explain why somebody feels something is right, they'd rather paint the opposition as villains. This is just what I've seen, though it seems fairly consistent across the sites and places I visit.
[QUOTE=Megafan;38360621]You're starting to look more and more like a gimmick account, but do go on.[/QUOTE]
I was a previously banned member, but I appealed to the moderators and they gave me a second chance.
I'm not sure in what universe Hitler can be considered "right-wing." The German right was based around support for capitalism, federalism, Christianity, monarchism, and the junkers. Hitler fundamentally opposed all of those things. The economic policies of Hitler and Mussolini are best described as corporatism, which is perhaps most similar to state socialism.
O'Reilly is hated for his left-wing policies, including his support for gun control.
[QUOTE=Agoat;38360677]Rather than explain why somebody feels something is right, they'd rather paint the opposition as villains. This is just what I've seen, though it seems fairly consistent across the sites and places I visit.[/QUOTE]
I mostly see this "moral high ground" (for the right) in the form of pro-life supporters decrying abortion supporters, and (for the left) socialized healthcare supporters decrying those in favor of privatized healthcare/insurance.
[QUOTE=rinoaff33;38360720]I mostly see this "moral high ground" (for the right) in the form of pro-life supporters decrying abortion supporters, and (for the left) socialized healthcare supporters decrying those in favor of privatized healthcare/insurance.[/QUOTE]
That actually sounds pretty accurate. I don't dive into the abortion issue too often so I'm not exposed to each side on that.
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38360617]
He's very radical left-wing in America, European standards don't really matter. Every country is different and has it's own culture, politics, etc.[/QUOTE]
if he were radical left-wing he wouldn't have won. radical would be like ralph nader or something.
even romney's not radically conservative. being moderate is really the only way you can amass tons of votes.
[QUOTE=patq911;38360664]Hitler was a fascist, the very definition of "right-wing".
Obama is almost certainly right of center from the perspective of the whole world.[/QUOTE]
Fascism is statist. And racist as hell.
The actions of Nazi Germany could be considered pretty extreme right-wing, but googling "hitler political spectrum" shows he was center-left by some sources and center-right by others...?
[QUOTE=Bobie;38360639]friendly drone strikes, warm loving anti-drug policy, allowing tax havens and paving the way for environment destroying pipelines doesn't sound very 'radical left wing'
you been watchin too much fox news boy[/QUOTE]
Obama has stated that he supports marijuana legalization, Bobie. He also insists on raising taxes and has called for the "redistribution of wealth." As for green energy, he has given our tax dollars to his Solyndra, green energy company that was lead by one of Obama's biggest campaign donors.
In addition, Obama has made several anti-gun rights statements in the past and sided against two of our closest allies (Israel and the United Kingdom). He sided with Argentina in the Falklands dispute and with Palestine on the Israel-Palestine dispute. He has also supports granting amnesty to illegal aliens. Never mind TARP, which is straight out of the socialist playbook. Obama even said that he wants to nationalize other industries in the same way. Also, don't forget his creating of a universal healthcare system.
[QUOTE=Swazi Spring;38360704]I was a previously banned member, but I appealed to the moderators and they gave me a second chance.
I'm not sure in what universe Hitler can be considered "right-wing." The German right was based around support for capitalism, federalism, Christianity, monarchism, and the junkers. Hitler fundamentally opposed all of those things. The economic policies of Hitler and Mussolini are best described as corporatism, which is perhaps most similar to state socialism.
O'Reilly is hated for his left-wing policies, including his support for gun control.[/QUOTE]
Corporatist isn't "state socialism". "State socialism" is a term used to talk about nations who tried to implement Marxism through top-down dictatorial distribution of goods. These are areas where there was no private property, only state property. These systems can also be identified as "state capitalist" if you want to believe Trotsky.
The Nazi Party outlined property rights for people(not leftist) and wanted to save Capitalism "from the Jews"(also not leftist). The focus on paternalism and religion also makes them rightist.
Leftism is generally seen as community run, versus privately run. It talks about equal ownership and distribution, not capitalist distribution. Some advocate the distribution be done through the state("state socialism") at least until the system can transition to a stateless communist society, others advocate for a heavily regulated market economy to stick around for expedience(modern social democrats/progressives), and others believe communities should run themselves without interference from any arbitrary or dictatorial authority(socialist libertarians, anarchists, etc.).
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