Bigoted Am I; A Discussion on Racism, Homosexuality, and Humor - General

Indeed, so true. I also hate it when people are mules, and are so stubborn they refuse to let go of something as trivial as misinterpreted words. They need to know that they aren't mules, and that they aren't walking down a long and winding path down the Grand Canyon with an ape on their back; there's no canyon wall that they need to stay close too, no precipitous drop that they could easily fall off of if they aren't careful. So many misunderstandings have happened, and when the people refuse to listen, it makes me want to scream the truth into all of their ears until either they start bleeding or they see reason, hopefully the latter coming in lieu of the former, since it is absolute HELL trying to get ear-blood out of carpet.

Dont see the problem with racist jokes. I love the ones people make about the Irish because theyre mostly true.

All this "protect gays, protect blacks" stigma is used as a reason for conflict. As some people above said, you get called a homophobe or racist on every chance people get. Chances are they say it just to offend you and make themselves feel better, not to actually protect gay/race rights.

OP, an interesting example of this that you didn't mention is Dave Chappelle. He originally meant to portray stereotypes in his show to make fun of how ridiculous they were, but eventually attracted an audience that was just laughing at the stereotypes themselves, and he ended up ending the show because of it: [quote]Chappelle also said that he felt some of his sketches were "socially irresponsible."[24][25] He singled out the "pixie sketch" in which pixies appear to people and encourage them to reinforce stereotypes of their races. In the sketch, Chappelle is wearing blackface and is dressed as a character in a minstrel show.[26] According to Chappelle, during the filming of the sketch, a crew member was laughing in a way that made him feel uncomfortable and made him rethink the show.[24][25] Chappelle said, "it was the first time I felt that someone was not laughing with me but laughing at me."[24][/quote] There's different ways of doing racial humor--some of them, like Chappelle, do it in a way that's critical of racism. Other people, like Carlos Mencia, just go on stage and say racist shit. It's a shame that a lot of people can't tell the difference (same is true of gay jokes, although I don't have any comparable examples). [QUOTE=johan_sm;30749096]All this "protect gays, protect blacks" stigma is used as a reason for conflict. As some people above said, you get called a homophobe or racist on every chance people get. Chances are they say it just to offend you and make themselves feel better, not to actually protect gay/race rights.[/QUOTE] So, instead of rethinking your bigoted behavior, just slander the people who call you out for it with ad hominem attacks. Good strategy!

[QUOTE=DrChernobyl;30744028]Something some people should learn Stereotyping =/= Rascim[/QUOTE] How is implying an entire group of people are exactly the same not racist? "All black people like watermelons." That's just a generalization of an entire ethnic group, and it's pretty stupid, even if it's not racist. That said I'm okay with racist jokes as long as they're funny. If they're not funny and they're just "get back in the kitchen lmao" or "dont u have sum fried chiken to eat xD", they're overdone and offensive just to the human brain because of how dumb they are.

[QUOTE=TH89;30749226] So, instead of rethinking your bigoted behavior, just slander the people who call you out for it with ad hominem attacks. Good strategy![/QUOTE] So by having not perfect on the spot talking skills and sometimes wording things wrong I become bigoted? You are the bigot.

[QUOTE=johan_sm;30749539]So by having not perfect on the spot talking skills and sometimes wording things wrong I become bigoted? You are the bigot.[/QUOTE] You basically just said that anyone who criticizes people for bigotry is doing it for personal gain and not because they care about bigotry. Why would you make such hostile, baseless accusations about progressive people if you don't want to make make bigoted remarks? "No, you!" isn't really an answer. [QUOTE=DrChernobyl;30744028]Something some people should learn Stereotyping =/= Rascim[/QUOTE] "All black people are violent criminals" It's not racism it's stereotyping maaaan god!!!

[QUOTE=TH89;30749671]You basically just said that anyone who criticizes people for bigotry is doing it for personal gain and not because they care about bigotry. Why would you make such hostile, baseless accusations about progressive people if you don't want to make make bigoted remarks? "No, you!" isn't really an answer. "All black people are violent criminals" It's not racism it's stereotyping maaaan god!!![/QUOTE] I was thinking more along the lines of Rascim - an act against a person based solely on their race Stereotype - Preconceived notion about somebody based on their race So like "He's Asian so he must like rice" vs. "He's Asian so we wont let him hang out with us because he only eats rice"

[QUOTE=TH89;30749671]You basically just said that anyone who criticizes people for bigotry is doing it for personal gain and not because they care about bigotry. Why would you make such hostile, baseless accusations about progressive people if you don't want to make make bigoted remarks? "No, you!" isn't really an answer. [/QUOTE] Not everyone, but most people I've seen do. They call everyone racist/homophobe every chance they get just for the sake of it. You know how homophobes call gays names for the sake of it? Same here, gay lovers call other homophobes just for the sake of it to offend each other and create an argument. It's not like calling a racist racist will make him stop

[QUOTE=SomTervo;30749471]How is implying an entire group of people are exactly the same not racist? "All black people like watermelons." That's just a generalization of an entire ethnic group, and it's pretty stupid, even if it's not racist. That said I'm okay with racist jokes as long as they're funny. If they're not funny and they're just "get back in the kitchen lmao" or "dont u have sum fried chiken to eat xD", they're overdone and offensive just to the human brain because of how dumb they are.[/QUOTE] The concepts of stereotyping and prejudice are different.

[QUOTE=SoaringScout;30749944]The concepts of stereotyping and prejudice are different.[/QUOTE] both are based on people being the way they are because of their race/sex/sexuality

[QUOTE=johan_sm;30749821]Not everyone, but most people I've seen do. They call everyone racist/homophobe every chance they get just for the sake of it.[/QUOTE] This is anecdotal evidence, and probably influenced by your own perception--if you're already sensitive about being called out for bigotry you're more likely to interpret their motivations in a negative light. Either way it's pretty dumb to just throw out a blanket accusation to try to discredit anyone who criticizes racism or homophobia. [QUOTE=johan_sm;30749821]It's not like calling a racist racist will make him stop[/QUOTE] See, I think the problem here (that makes discussions about bigotry so difficult) is that you and other people have this idea that the world is divided into "racists," who are all horrible people who are as bad as the KKK, and "not-racists," who don't have a prejudiced bone in their bodies. In reality, most people are prejudiced to some degree, and most people don't realize how their prejudices and the prejudices of society affect their lives and the lives of people around them. And in this context, yes, pointing out when someone says something racist or sexist or homophobic often can have a positive effect. Unfortunately a lot of people immediately get ultra-defensive and assume they're being called a KKK member and refuse to examine their own behavior, often by insulting the people who criticized them in the first place (like you're doing right now). Another negative effect of this binary perception of racism is what DrChernobyl is doing. He agrees that racism is really super terrible, but instead of acting on that notion by opposing racial stereotyping and negative racial humor, he reclassifies those things so that they are, in his mind, no longer "racist," but have some lesser word like "stereotyping" attached--a word that can be used very broadly and doesn't have the same connotations. Unfortunately all this does is allow DrChernobyl to continue to enjoy these things without guilt while still claiming to oppose racism. It doesn't address the reality that, even if they are a lot less virulent than segregation or lynching, racist jokes and racist stereotyping are still a form of racism, and negatively affect the lives of minorities. [editline]27th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=SoaringScout;30749944]The concepts of stereotyping and prejudice are different.[/QUOTE] Again, this is a shitty cop-out. "Stereotyping" can apply to just about any group of people, like lawyers or French people or hockey fans. So obviously all stereotyping is not racist. RACIAL stereotyping, where you say "black people are dumb & criminals" or "hispanics are lazy" or "jews are untrustworthy thieves" yes, that is racism, and has been the most common form of racism throughout history. It's like saying "lynching isn't racist, it's just violence!" Just because there's a broader category something fits under doesn't somehow make it not racist.

IT'S CAUSE I'M WHITE ISN'T IT?

TH89 I think I love you

[QUOTE=TH89;30750231]This is anecdotal evidence, and probably influenced by your own perception--if you're already sensitive about being called out for bigotry you're more likely to interpret their motivations in a negative light. Either way it's pretty dumb to just throw out a blanket accusation to try to discredit anyone who criticizes racism or homophobia. See, I think the problem here (that makes discussions about bigotry so difficult) is that you and other people have this idea that the world is divided into "racists," who are all horrible people who are as bad as the KKK, and "not-racists," who don't have a prejudiced bone in their bodies. In reality, most people are prejudiced to some degree, and most people don't realize how their prejudices and the prejudices of society affect their lives and the lives of people around them. And in this context, yes, pointing out when someone says something racist or sexist or homophobic often can have a positive effect. Unfortunately a lot of people immediately get ultra-defensive and assume they're being called a KKK member and refuse to examine their own behavior, often by insulting the people who criticized them in the first place (like you're doing right now). Another negative effect of this binary perception of racism is what DrChernobyl is doing. He agrees that racism is really super terrible, but instead of acting on that notion by opposing racial stereotyping and negative racial humor, he reclassifies those things so that they are, in his mind, no longer "racist," but have some lesser word like "stereotyping" attached--a word that can be used very broadly and doesn't have the same connotations. Unfortunately all this does is allow DrChernobyl to continue to enjoy these things without guilt while still claiming to oppose racism. It doesn't address the reality that, even if they are a lot less virulent than segregation or lynching, racist jokes and racist stereotyping are still a form of racism, and negatively affect the lives of minorities. [editline]27th June 2011[/editline] Again, this is a shitty cop-out. "Stereotyping" can apply to just about any group of people, like lawyers or French people or hockey fans. So obviously all stereotyping is not racist. RACIAL stereotyping, where you say "black people are dumb & criminals" or "hispanics are lazy" or "jews are untrustworthy thieves" yes, that is racism, and has been the most common form of racism throughout history. It's like saying "lynching isn't racist, it's just violence!" Just because there's a broader category something fits under doesn't somehow make it not racist.[/QUOTE] th89 you are doing a great job on these posts but I can't help think you are wasting your 'breath'. most people here will read this and ultimately find a way to self-justify their racist tendencies/racism in general exactly how you have described it. [editline]27th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=cathal6606;30749072]Dont see the problem with racist jokes. I love the ones people make about the Irish because [b]theyre mostly true.[/b][/QUOTE] wow, that's fucked up [editline]27th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=MaverickIB;30744323]What I hate is when people jump the gun and outright refuse to let go even when the original person explains themselves. For example, I remember having a discussion in my LA thread about sleeping with other people in the same bed. It was specifically about gay people, so someone went and said "I wouldn't want to sleep with a gay dude in the same bed." Now, this statement by itself sounds bad, but in the context of the conversation it was just poorly worded. That didn't stop a dude from going and attacking that poster with hardcore "omg ur a homophobe you terrible human being." The original poster explained himself, stating that he wouldn't want anyone that he isn't in a relationship sleeping in the same bed with him, no matter what gender or sexuality they are. He only stated a gay male because the conversation was about gay males. Sure, he used some poor words, but it was an honest mistake, not an act of homophobia. However, the attacker just refused to let go, and called the guy a homophobe for 3 pages or so. I just think there's a lot of hypocrisy in those that attack others for homophobia/general bigotism. They're pretty much attacking someone for being close-minded, but often they are close-minded themselves. Once they've made up their mind that someone is a bigot, they just refuse to change it no matter how well the person explains themselves. They seem to forget that sometimes people make mistakes. Is Tracy Morgan a bigot/homophone and whatnot? Probably not, he just made the mistake of writing some bad jokes. The sad thing is that no matter what he does to try and redeem himself, people will always attack him for that one time he made some bad jokes about gays.[/QUOTE] you yourself are making a generalization about people who claim to know what is bigotry or what isn't. from what I have seen, generalizations should be made more carefully. when you say "most people..." you need to be sure what you're saying especially if it's an insult or if you're saying saying people don't know what they're talking about [editline]27th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=AimlessGiant;30748048]Something being racist is subjective, either the person who the joke is aimed it takes it light heartedly or doesn't.[/QUOTE] this is entirely untrue. example: "all my friends are lazy." well, you obviously know your friends whether you're joking or not, and you could make a statement like that (you'd sound like a tool though if you weren't joking) as opposed to "all mexicans are lazy" you don't know all mexicans, and you are an asshole for saying that. even if you are telling your mexican friend this joke and he isn't upset and even if he finds it okay it doesn't mean it isn't racist.

[QUOTE=lol wut;30751561]th89 you are doing a great job on these posts but I can't help think you are wasting your 'breath'. most people here will read this and ultimately find a way to self-justify their racist tendencies/racism in general exactly how you have described it.[/QUOTE] There's always gonna be "SkynrdFans" who click dumb and move on but my hope is always that there's a few lurkers or whoever who might at least think about it. It also makes me feel better that there's at least [i]someone[/i] making the progressive case instead of just a lot of affluent white kids standing around stroking their chins and nodding agreeably about how minorities need to stop complaining so much.

[QUOTE=TH89;30751793]There's always gonna be "SkynrdFans" who click dumb and move on but my hope is always that there's a few lurkers or whoever who might at least think about it. [/QUOTE] lool

[QUOTE=skynrdfan3;30751885]lool[/QUOTE] great post and really showing how maturely you can argue

[QUOTE=lol wut;30753315]great post and really showing how maturely you can argue[/QUOTE] me and th89 have been over this jabillions of times and i dont want to go over it again. but i guess here's the tl;dr of it all stereotypes are somewhat true from my experience. i have a right to be afraid of black people where i live. I know MANY people who have been shot, mugged, assaulted, etc. by blacks far more than whites (note: you can ask virtually anyone in my state about who is generally safer to be around. a majority of them - both white AND black - would answer white people). Am I saying all black people are criminals? No. I have several black friends and the coolest boss i've ever had was black. I am saying people who grow up in poor, poverty-stricken, gang oriented areas are more prone to being criminals. Most of which are black.

[QUOTE=skynrdfan3;30753474]i have a right to be afraid of black people where i live.[/QUOTE] [img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16550652/1298947912528.jpg[/img]

All right guys who wants to hear a holoca- I mean... This is true, There is a somewhat thick line between racism and comedy. In this line is where all the racist jokes are. Think of it as a ven-diagram if that will help you understand. I believe Tracy Morgan meant something more that what was actually seen when he said "God dont make mistakes" If god doesn't make mistakes, then why is he saying that gays are a mistake? He contradicts himself to the point where its not even funny.

I've started to not give a fuck if people get offended by what I say. And it's not like I run around saying horrible things, but a great example is when people ask me if I believe in god and I say no. [editline]27th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Diet Kane;30753584][img]http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16550652/1298947912528.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] :ohdear:

[QUOTE=skynrdfan3;30753474]me and th89 have been over this jabillions of times and i dont want to go over it again. but i guess here's the tl;dr of it all stereotypes are somewhat true from my experience. i have a right to be afraid of black people where i live. I know MANY people who have been shot, mugged, assaulted, etc. by blacks far more than whites (note: you can ask virtually anyone in my state about who is generally safer to be around. a majority of them - both white AND black - would answer white people). Am I saying all black people are criminals? No. I have several black friends and the coolest boss i've ever had was black. I am saying people who grow up in poor, poverty-stricken, gang oriented areas are more prone to being criminals. Most of which are black.[/QUOTE] And guess what, thisispain lives in South Central or some shit and he doesn't think that kind of prejudice is good. I spent half my time growing up in a neighborhood that was majority hispanic, my high school was half hispanic, and there are gangs and stabbings and shootings. I got smacked around a few times by Nuestra Familia dudes. But you know what I don't do? I don't use it as an excuse. I don't think it gives me a "right" to be racist to hispanic people. Because prejudice shouldn't be excused on any basis. It hurts people. It's one of the [i]main reasons[/i] so many black people where you live are living in poverty. Going "I'll stop being racist when black people stop being poor :smug:" is like standing in front of the ladder at a pool and not letting anyone out unless they're dry. [editline]28th June 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Mega Tuna;30753665]I believe Tracy Morgan meant something more that what was actually seen when he said "God dont make mistakes" If god doesn't make mistakes, then why is he saying that gays are a mistake? He contradicts himself to the point where its not even funny.[/QUOTE] I don't think you understand what Tracy Morgan meant there. He was assuming gay people are a mistake. He said God doesn't make mistakes. So he was saying that he doesn't believe that gay people are born gay, he believes they become gay later in life. That's bigoted and not exactly grounded in science, but it's not contradictory.

[QUOTE=TH89;30754089] I don't think you understand what Tracy Morgan meant there. He was assuming gay people are a mistake. He said God doesn't make mistakes. So he was saying that he doesn't believe that gay people are born gay, he believes they become gay later in life. That's bigoted and not exactly grounded in science, but it's not contradictory.[/QUOTE] Interesting, Thats a whole different way to look at it. I really need to think about this a little bit more this guy has to have some sort of flaw in his logic...

You're just butthurt.

I'm so glad I don't have to put up with this bullshit where I come from. No one gives a fuck. I could call a black guy a nigger who steals shoes and they just laugh it off. Everyone's chill as tits.

[QUOTE=Asmaedus;30754327]I'm so glad I don't have to put up with this bullshit where I come from. No one gives a fuck. I could call a black guy a nigger who steals shoes and they just laugh it off. Everyone's chill as tits.[/QUOTE] wish i lived there! here you call a man a racial slur and he will follow you home, note your address, and then he will shoot you the next morning when you go out to grab your news paper.

[QUOTE=Asmaedus;30754327]I'm so glad I don't have to put up with this bullshit where I come from. No one gives a fuck. I could call a black guy a nigger who steals shoes and they just laugh it off. Everyone's chill as tits.[/QUOTE] Yes, Australia, the land of race riots against middle-easterners and virulent poverty and racism against the aboriginal community. Chill as tits.

I made a 'gingers have no souls' joke to a ginger once

[QUOTE=TH89;30754485]Yes, Australia, the land of race riots against middle-easterners and virulent poverty and racism against the aboriginal community. Chill as tits.[/QUOTE] New Zealander living in Australia. Australia is a different story.