Bigoted Am I; A Discussion on Racism, Homosexuality, and Humor - General

[QUOTE=Contag;30866513]Except the conclusion is not as strongly made, and the white person can shed those factors, whereas the black person will continue to be defined in relation to his blackness.[/QUOTE] That's 100% speculation. You can't just say something like that and expect everyone to take it as fact. I also find it completely ridiculous to say that if someone is white then they are unable to comment on the condition of racism because of some imaginary inability to understand... that's the most cop out argument I've ever heard.

[QUOTE=Sanius;30874406]take a history class[/QUOTE] So i'm to be lumped in with less than reputable characters because my white ancestors did some fucked up shit? Are you joking? That's completely racist.

[QUOTE=Parakon;30877799]So i'm to be lumped in with less than reputable characters because my white ancestors did some fucked up shit? [/QUOTE] white isn't a concrete term. there are certain degrees of whiteness

cool double standards, bro.

[QUOTE=Sanius;30872610]are you seriously equating fat jokes to racism? that's really fucking offensive[/QUOTE] Everybody knows that fat people have been oppressed for centuries Never mind the fact that until only recently being fat was a symbol of being wealthy and important and someone who should be respected, don't let facts get in the way

[QUOTE=Parakon;30881631]cool double standards, bro.[/QUOTE] cry me a river. society is full of double standards, don't act self-righteous just because you want to be in a white pride parade or whatever you're complaining about

[QUOTE=Sanius;30883405]cry me a river. society is full of double standards, don't act self-righteous just because you want to be in a white pride parade or whatever you're complaining about[/QUOTE] No dude, no. I'm all for the rights of others, but when i'm demonized because i'm a white male it's just ridiculous and counter-productive. And for you to assume all white people share a single user's views just because of history? That's absolutely [I]disgusting[/I]. I'm tired of this white guilt garbage. I treat people the way they treat me, yet I catch flak because of my race. Real classy.

[QUOTE=TBFundy;30862159]what you completely contradicted yourself "it's okay to say it if you are of that race because it's your business and no one else's"[/QUOTE] I didn't say "it's okay to say the n word if you're black." I said that whether it's good or bad, it's black people's business to decide whether they want to say it. Not yours. [QUOTE=TBFundy;30862316]so underprivileged whites can use it too if you're saying anyone that's underprivileged can use it steps out of a racial problem and into a class problem[/QUOTE] No, because lower-class white people still benefit from racism by being white. I don't think anyone "should" say the n-word per se, but I think it's less problematic coming from someone who experiences systemic prejudice for not being white, which is kind of what the word is all about. I think your mistake here is trying to turn it into a binary thing where people in Group A are "allowed to say the n word" and people in Group B are not. That's not how it works. There are black people who have no problem with any white people using the n-word. There are also black people who don't think anyone, including black people, should say it at all. There are lots of people in between. There is no Rule Of The N-Word that you can follow. My thing is, if a white guy is throwing around the n-word in a context where he doesn't expect to get called on it (i.e. if there are no black people, or often no nonwhite people, around), I will say hey, that's not cool. If a white guy is throwing around the n-word with a bunch of black dudes, esp. if he's from the hood, I'm not gonna stick my nose in and tell him "you shouldn't do that," even if I think it's in bad taste, because it's not my place to do that. I'm even less qualified to dictate to Puerto Rican kids from the hood, for obvious reasons. [QUOTE=Scotty.;30866998]One of my best mates is a Muslim from Pakistan. I call him Chocolate Bear. People need to lighten up. There's racist jokes, then there's actual fucking disgusting racism. No need for it. Joking with someone about their appearance is a-okay in my opinion. I'm a fat fuck, I don't take offence when people make fat jokes, because most of the time they're actually funny.[/QUOTE] Not all jokes are created equal, though. There's a difference between you joking around with your Pakistani friend and Gallagher going onstage and going "fuck those sand rats, I'll shove a rocket up their paki asses" and his white, racist audience applauding and laughing (or the Tracy Morgan thing, which is pretty much the homophobic equivalent). I don't think most people have a problem with light-hearted racial jokes between friends of different ethnicities (even I do this), but that doesn't mean anyone gets to hide behind actual racism with "it's comedy! no boundaries!" as an excuse. [QUOTE=Parakon;30877799]So i'm to be lumped in with less than reputable characters because my white ancestors did some fucked up shit?[/QUOTE] You still reap benefits today from what your white ancestors did (and what your white contemporaries still do). To just go "it has nothing to do with me, I have no responsibility!" while still benefiting from racial inequality might not be racist, but it's still pretty ignorant. Acting like you're being persecuted for being white when someone points it out is even worse. [QUOTE=Parakon;31123201]And for you to assume all white people share a single user's views just because of history? That's absolutely [I]disgusting[/I].[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure nobody actually said that.

Do you legitemately beleive that one race is better than the other? No? than you are not a racist. it's in the same league as those "WOMAN - SAMMICH" jokes, as unfunny as they may be 99% of the time the person doesn't believe that women are inferior. and simple acknowledging certain cultural things like the fact that, say, Chinese people eat rice (sure, i don't see how that could be funny in a joke, but try denying that rice is a staple ingredient in Chinese cuisine) shouldn't be considered rasicm. it's just that modern hypertolerance has warped the definition of racism, for example, a replacement teacher doesn't know the name of a student and says "The indian boy next to John, what's his name?" and the class goes "oooh, but that's racist", it's not racist, it's acknowledging that he's indian while trying to identify him.. And in humor, as long as the comedian isn't giving off any notable racial-supremacy/inferiority vibes and it's all in the name of fun, you shouldn't even have any second doubts.

[QUOTE=Nerdrage;31123999]Do you legitemately beleive that one race is better than the other? No? than you are not a racist.[/QUOTE] But what does it mean to "legitemately beleive" something? There are tons of people who would [i]absolutely deny[/i] believing in racial superiority, and on a rational level they probably do. But they will still cross to the other side of the street or stop talking to their friend if a black person walks by, or prioritize a job application by a white guy over one by an equally-qualified black guy. That is still racism. Specifically, it's called [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aversive_racism]Aversive racism[/url]. [quote]Dovidio and Gaertner showed evidence of aversive racism in the 1970’s and 1980’s with their field research. People from a list of conservative and liberal political parties in Brooklyn, New York were called by a “wrong number” caller, a confederate to the researcher, attempting to get hold of a mechanic to come help them with their broken down car. The confederate called from a pay phone and was out of change to make another call and asked the participant to make the call for them. The independent variable, or the variable the experimenter changed, was the dialect of the confederate to convince the participant that the “wrong number” caller was either White or Black. It was also noted how many people just hung-up the phone when they found it was a wrong number. The results were very interesting. Conservatives were significantly less helpful to Blacks than Whites, helping Whites out 92% of the time and helping Blacks out 65% of the time (Dovidio & Gaertner, p.69)[6]. The liberals helped Whites 85% of the time and Blacks 75% of the time (Dovidio & Gaertner, p.69)[7]. However, people from the liberal party hung up prematurely on Blacks 19% versus 3% of the time on Whites, while the conservatives prematurely hung up on 8% of the Blacks and 5% of the Whites (Dovidio & Gaertner, p.69)[8]. Such a big percentage gap with the liberals show that they may have a high affinity for an egalitarian society, but they still foster racial prejudices.[/quote]

[QUOTE=TH89;31123709] You still reap benefits today from what your white ancestors did (and what your white contemporaries still do). To just go "it has nothing to do with me, I have no responsibility!" while still benefiting from racial inequality might not be racist, but it's still pretty ignorant. Acting like you're being persecuted for being white when someone points it out is even worse.[/QUOTE] I'm aware of the benefits, what I'm getting at is it's horribly hypocritical to advocate black rights, women rights, etc. Then go around grouping all white people together in blanket statements. You're mistaking me wanting racism out [I]completely[/I] with white pride or power or something. [QUOTE=TH89;31123709]I'm pretty sure nobody actually said that.[/QUOTE] First post of the page.

[QUOTE=Parakon;31124102]I'm aware of the benefits, what I'm getting at is it's horribly hypocritical to advocate black rights, women rights, etc. Then go around grouping all white people together in blanket statements. You're mistaking me wanting racism out [I]completely[/I] with white pride or power or something.[/QUOTE] Yeah I kind of agree with you there There are "white" people who are parts of oppressed racial minorities as well I'm white and I definitely have it easier than say, Aboriginals (or any [i]visible[/i] minority), but to say it's because of what my (Irish) ancestors did is laughable, the Irish don't really have a track record of being accepted anywhere

[QUOTE=Parakon;31124102]I'm aware of the benefits, what I'm getting at is it's horribly hypocritical to advocate black rights, women rights, etc. Then go around grouping all white people together in blanket statements. You're mistaking me wanting racism out [I]completely[/I] with white pride or power or something. First post of the page.[/QUOTE] Do you challenge your straight white friends when they call things gay or people faggots or say racist stuff? If not, in a given one of those interactions those things are socially acceptable. No, not all straight white people share the same beliefs, obviously, but on a forum of FPS gamers (who are predominately straight and white), someone saying "you should say fag and be racist" is usually going to be in the minority. [editline]15th July 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;31124253]I'm white and I definitely have it easier than say, Aboriginals (or any [i]visible[/i] minority), but to say it's because of what my (Irish) ancestors did is laughable, the Irish don't really have a track record of being accepted anywhere[/QUOTE] It's not really about what your specific ancestors did, though, it's about how the inequalities that began back then continue to benefit you today. Just because my ancestors came from Spain and Prague doesn't mean I don't have a better chance of getting a job than a guy whose ancestors are from Zambia. It doesn't mean I won't get treated more generously by police. In other words our social responsibility stems from our own present-day privilege--it's not ancestral.

I am Jewish and make fun of the fact some times. But sometimes my friends take things too far and start to overdo the Jew jokes. It just makes me angry because they think "Oh okay he made a joke of it so I guess it's okay if we bug him about it every chance we get." And it really isn't okay.

[QUOTE=TH89;31123709]I didn't say "it's okay to say the n word if you're black." I said that whether it's good or bad, it's black people's business to decide whether they want to say it. Not yours. No, because lower-class white people still benefit from racism by being white. I don't think anyone "should" say the n-word per se, but I think it's less problematic coming from someone who experiences systemic prejudice for not being white, which is kind of what the word is all about. I think your mistake here is trying to turn it into a binary thing where people in Group A are "allowed to say the n word" and people in Group B are not. That's not how it works. There are black people who have no problem with any white people using the n-word. There are also black people who don't think anyone, including black people, should say it at all. There are lots of people in between. There is no Rule Of The N-Word that you can follow. My thing is, if a white guy is throwing around the n-word in a context where he doesn't expect to get called on it (i.e. if there are no black people, or often no nonwhite people, around), I will say hey, that's not cool. If a white guy is throwing around the n-word with a bunch of black dudes, esp. if he's from the hood, I'm not gonna stick my nose in and tell him "you shouldn't do that," even if I think it's in bad taste, because it's not my place to do that. I'm even less qualified to dictate to Puerto Rican kids from the hood, for obvious reasons. Not all jokes are created equal, though. There's a difference between you joking around with your Pakistani friend and Gallagher going onstage and going "fuck those sand rats, I'll shove a rocket up their paki asses" and his white, racist audience applauding and laughing (or the Tracy Morgan thing, which is pretty much the homophobic equivalent). I don't think most people have a problem with light-hearted racial jokes between friends of different ethnicities (even I do this), but that doesn't mean anyone gets to hide behind actual racism with "it's comedy! no boundaries!" as an excuse. You still reap benefits today from what your white ancestors did (and what your white contemporaries still do). To just go "it has nothing to do with me, I have no responsibility!" while still benefiting from racial inequality might not be racist, but it's still pretty ignorant. Acting like you're being persecuted for being white when someone points it out is even worse. I'm pretty sure nobody actually said that.[/QUOTE] you've explained this perfectly I agree with you now, well done [editline]15th July 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Mister Cool;31126501]I am Jewish and make fun of the fact some times. But sometimes my friends take things too far and start to overdo the Jew jokes. It just makes me angry because they think "Oh okay he made a joke of it so I guess it's okay if we bug him about it every chance we get." And it really isn't okay.[/QUOTE] tell them

What do you get when you shoot a mexican off a bike? [sp]Your bike back[/sp] [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Racism" - Uberslug))[/highlight] I know now to never try to be funny or disagree with anyone thank you for this valuable lesson

[QUOTE=Pace.;30733220]how can a religion be a race[/QUOTE] You do realize that you can trace many modern Jews to ancient civilizations?