• Arizona's Bill, whats the problem
    91 replies, posted
You know. This whole illegal immigration shit would eventually stop if the gov't would just decrease the citizenship time.
Mexicans should go through the proper immigration procedures if they don't want their asses to be hauled back to Mexico. They knew the risks of illegally entering the country before they crossed the border. They are not the victims, they are the perpetrators.
People say that it will lead to racial profiling, but for people who don't live in Arizona, if they were to racialy profile all of the hispanics here, almost a majority of people would be pulled over and asked to show an ID. People think that cops are all racists who will only pick out the hispanics, and harass them. tl:dr No problem with the bill, it is a step towards getting illegals out.
[QUOTE=_Sniper_;21724320]Mexicans should go through the proper immigration procedures if they don't want their asses to be hauled back to Mexico. They knew the risks of illegally entering the country before they crossed the border. They are not the victims, they are the perpetrators.[/QUOTE] EXACTLY, these people broke the law. i don't care what the reason is, it could be the saddest one out there but if we don't enforce the laws we make then what have we become...
[QUOTE=reedbo;21724278]You know. This whole illegal immigration shit would eventually stop if the gov't would just decrease the citizenship time.[/QUOTE] No it wouldn't. The only way to stop it at this point is actually enforcing the immigration laws and punishing those who don't follow them.
also i think they should make illegal immigration a more serious offence
[QUOTE=Ins4ne;21723146]Regardless of any situation you are supposed to carry any sort of legal identification.[/QUOTE] Show me a law that says this. If you're just on public land and a cop says "hey you, show me your ID" you have the right to just keep walking. Operating a vehicle is different so don't try to use that excuse.
I'm sick of these improper placement of resources on programs that rarely ever work. Want to stop Illegal immigration? Invest into Mexico and develop their country. That way they would've no reason to want to immigrate. I don't want to continually spend money deporting people that creates a dead weight loss cause of taxes. They'll keep coming back. Investing into Mexico will actually give us some type of return when the development reaches its potential.
[QUOTE=Aegis°;21725154]I'm sick of these improper placement of resources on programs that rarely ever work. Want to stop Illegal immigration? Invest into Mexico and develop their country. That way they would've no reason to want to immigrate. I don't want to continually spend money deporting people that creates a dead weight loss cause of taxes. They'll keep coming back. Investing into Mexico will actually give us some type of return when the development reaches its potential.[/QUOTE] Drug cartels are so rampant that armed force would be the only way to "fix" the country. And you know how well Americans responded the last time we tried to interfere in a foreign country's personal affairs.
[QUOTE=Prof. Oak;21722695]I think it's great. For those of you who don't live in Arizona, I don't think you should have an opinion on this.[/QUOTE] and this is why the small republic ideal is fucking idiotic
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21722522]Do you carry proof of citizenship with you everywhere you go? I don't mean just your license. I mean a birth certificate and all of that.[/QUOTE] Don't you have something like this in America? [IMG]http://www.dat-spielkind.de/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/personalausweis_musterfrau.jpg[/IMG] It's the ID every legal German citizen has. On it are name, date of birth, address and all that stuff. You are required to carry it with you wherever you go. (It's the old design by the way, the new ones are more colorful) In all honesty though, I think it's common sense to carry something like that with you.
[QUOTE=liltourette;21725701]Don't you have something like this in America? [IMG]http://www.dat-spielkind.de/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/personalausweis_musterfrau.jpg[/IMG] It's the ID every legal German citizen has. On it are name, date of birth, address and all that stuff. You are required to carry it with you wherever you go. (It's the old design by the way, the new ones are more colorful) In all honesty though, I think it's common sense to carry something like that with you.[/QUOTE] We have driver's licenses, which have alot of that information, but you aren't required to have one, and they aren't proof of citizenship. You can't get one until you're at least 16, and are only required to carry it with you when you drive.
I say we pass all kinds of bills giving officers the right to detain you based on suspicion of wrongdoing. A pedophile law that states that officers can search your computer for illegal files if they are suspicous. And how about a stolen items law? Anyone who looks like they have stolen property can be stopped and searched, and if the officer suspects something of being stolen he can confiscate it. these all sound reasonable, we are all American citizens who have nothing to hide.
[QUOTE=Detective P;21723901]No, I'm talking directly to the state of Arizona. I heard it on Colbert or the Daily Show, I think. Either way, it was in the billions tot he state.[/QUOTE] I thought you were talking about taxes, sorry. Rated informative. [QUOTE=Kronix904;21724136]Go look it up yourself? Those are only the ones who got caught also.[/QUOTE] Citing an old article on sacabee here: [quote]cities with large immigrant populations showed larger reductions in property and violent crime than cities without large immigrant populations.[/quote] [QUOTE=Kronix904;21724136] I don't want people dieing either, but trust me, guns have more fear than words or laws.[/QUOTE] Which is why we should kill anyone who commits a misdemeanor. :downs: These are fucking people we're talking about here, not some kind of vermin. They are trying to find themselves better lives, but cannot due to the lengthy, costly, punishing immigration forms and laws. [QUOTE=Kronix904;21724136] So because of my ideas that makes me less of age and immature? [/QUOTE] Yes. Killing someone to stop something is pure laziness in planning; it can be avoided through other means. Being so rash does make one seem immature. [QUOTE=Kronix904;21724136] They can't idiot, don't talk about what you don't know. Not every cop is a dirty cop.[/QUOTE] Where, exactly, did I say every cop is going to do these things? There ARE dirty cops out there, which you should know very well. Even excluding so-called "dirty" cops, there are many who will stop Hispanic looking people to check their papers on a regular basis feeling that letting them go will be shirking their duty. [QUOTE=Kronix904;21724136] After anyone one gets arrested, they go in front of a judge and see if the cop(s) had the right to arrest them. If it was wrong, the charges will be dropped.[/QUOTE] The guy was jaywalking. The guy was swerving on the road. The guy looked like a drunk driver. The guy looked nervous when I started looking at him. All of these are highly subjective (or petty), and most judges will rule in the cops favor if these "circumstances" are present.
It reminds me of the civil war days when freed slaves had to have their "free-man" papers on them; under penalty of being made a slave. No investigation necessary, right on out to the market.
[QUOTE=Luke510;21727161]I say we pass all kinds of bills giving officers the right to detain you based on suspicion of wrongdoing. A pedophile law that states that officers can search your computer for illegal files if they are suspicous. And how about a stolen items law? Anyone who looks like they have stolen property can be stopped and searched, and if the officer suspects something of being stolen he can confiscate it. these all sound reasonable, we are all American citizens who have nothing to hide.[/QUOTE] If you have nothing to hide, then why would it bother you to carry a piece of paper that confirms your identity as an American citizen? [QUOTE=Biotoxsin;21727471]It reminds me of the civil war days when freed slaves had to have their "free-man" papers on them; under penalty of being made a slave. No investigation necessary, right on out to the market.[/QUOTE] Times were different, but the situation is similar. Again, how hard is it to carry identification?
[QUOTE=_Sniper_;21727661]If you have nothing to hide, then why would it bother you to carry a piece of paper that confirms your identity as an American citizen?[/QUOTE] I always carry my drivers license, but I don't want to show it to every fucking cop who asks for my papers. and if for some reason I left my wallet at home i'm going to be arrested for being a suspected illegal immigrant.
Law isn't that bad. A. Majority of the state wants it. B. I'm white and if I was caught doing something illegal I would be required to show I.D (like a driving infraction) The SAME thing applies for other races. This just allows police to peruse them further if they don't have an id.
This should be in every state.
[QUOTE=liltourette;21725701]Don't you have something like this in America? [IMG]http://www.dat-spielkind.de/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/personalausweis_musterfrau.jpg[/IMG] It's the ID every legal German citizen has. On it are name, date of birth, address and all that stuff. You are required to carry it with you wherever you go. (It's the old design by the way, the new ones are more colorful) In all honesty though, I think it's common sense to carry something like that with you.[/QUOTE] they're talking about actual identifications like papers
The people FOR this bill aren't understanding that it does more than effect illegal immigrants. Very few people will argue that there's nothing wrong with illegal immigrants, but to ask every person who a policeman deems "illegal looking" for legal papers isn't right. That's racial profiling which is wrong and illegal in every sense, but people seem to not care as long as it doesn't apply to them. Do you honestly not care if every person in AZ with slightly dark skin that gets pulled over for a speeding ticket or rolling through a stop sign will have to show papers? Beyond that, it will surely lead to abuse by cops, and entice them to pull "illegal looking people" over more often. How would you like it if you had to show papers showing your legality without reasonable cause, but your friend sitting next to you didn't? I know it would piss me off, so I wouldn't wish it upon others, it's not the American way. In the words of Ben Franklin, "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Great detailed information, I will visit you often. Here is some interesting things. [url]www.r4i-dshc.com[/url] [url]www.ndsill.net[/url] [url]www.edgei-ds.cn[/url] (many movies to download)
[QUOTE=that1dude24;21723984] :ohdear: The only reason I brought up age is because your only solution to this problem was to kill people. If that isn't a sign of age, or general immaturity, I'm not sure what is.[/QUOTE] Implied Psychopathy for the win.
You guys know that the exact wording in the bill comes, verbatim, from the federal law on this subject yes? You also know that 'lol po-po can just cum up and be liek SHOW ME UR PAPERS' is entirely false. No law enforcement agency can randomly search or ask for documentation of citizenship. In the event of a traffic-stop, or other routine actions on the line of duty, they can, if they deem necessary, ask for the documentation. Stop fucking hating on this bill when you're ignorant of the specifics.
They wouldn't have to do this if there wasn't such a large influx of illegal aliens entering our country. I understand that this law is greatly unconstitutional but really it's for the better good. I mean we are living in a country where we are complaining because authority might ask you for ID if you are hispanic. Don't fucking complain, that's a hell of a lot better than some countries.
[QUOTE=liltourette;21725701]Don't you have something like this in America? [IMG]http://www.dat-spielkind.de/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/personalausweis_musterfrau.jpg[/IMG] It's the ID every legal German citizen has. On it are name, date of birth, address and all that stuff. You are required to carry it with you wherever you go. (It's the old design by the way, the new ones are more colorful) In all honesty though, I think it's common sense to carry something like that with you.[/QUOTE] I'm Canadian actually, but no. America doesn't have ID cards. Shit would hit the fan if that type of thing came about.
It's an unconstitutional law, that's all that needs to be said. Not only on a guilty until proven innocent level, but on the level that immigration laws are written by the federal government, not states.
I'm white and I sure as hell don't carry around proof of [i]my[/i] citizenship all day. Why should latinos have to?
What if you're on holiday? Then you're not an American Citizen and don't have the papers, but you'll get accused of immigration even though you're not living in America.
I dislike this bill soley because it shouldn't be a problem in the first place.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.