• Should drugs be legalized ?
    655 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Kel|oggs;37721751]This is debatable. But it rarely ever causes damage. [editline]19th September 2012[/editline] I definitely wouldn't call it dangerous.[/QUOTE] Maybe it's just me not having done enough research into LSD, but I've heard that it's easy to overdose on?
There have been no documented deaths from LSD overdose from Wikipedia, source - ^ Passie, Torsten; Halpern, John H.; Stichtenoth, Dirk O.; Emrich, Hinderk M.; Hintzen, Annelie (11 November 2008). "The Pharmacology of Lysergic Acid Diethylamide: A Review". CNS Neuroscience & Therapeutics 14 (4): 295–314. doi:10.1111/j.1755-5949.2008.00059.x. PMID 19040555. It tends to be distributed as square tabs of paper with 100 micrograms being the most common dosage - nowhere near the amount required to overdose I'd imagine overdosing just consists of a mega trip...
Drugs shouldn't be legalized, they should be decriminalized That way the drug trade wouldn't change too much, and the problem wouldn't get too much bigger than it was already
Guessing you mean decriminalisation of possession? Decriminalisation wouldn't take away the dangers of the black market even if it remained a similar size to what it is now. Contamination, unknown strength, inflated prices, etc. would remain along with the problems that they cause to people who end up using Portugal's decriminalisation seems to be doing pretty well but they still have the drugs trade entirely underground and unregulated
Yeah but at least people won't get put in jail just for using [editline]19th September 2012[/editline] all the problems would remain the same
As far as I know drug use is not actually illegal, once a drug is inside your system you can't be done for it in the UK at least unless you possess some more of it outside of your body
[QUOTE=pacmanjones;37719266]just pot. its not a drug. the rest shouldn't be legal[/QUOTE] It is a drug don't delude yourself [editline]19th September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=deaded38;37714981]You don't get it, even though it's simple as fuck. If you legalize drugs, you are making them AVAILABLE to EVERYONE. See, you can't just say, "OH BUT THEY WILL ABUSE DRUGS ANYWAY!" since it clearly doesn't work that way. Most people don't know how to acquire drugs. You guys are acting like drugs grow on trees in people's backyards. If you're determined to get drugs, you might be able to do it, but that does NOT mean you will be able to do it. For example, let's say I'm the typical dumbass teenager who wants to smoke pot to be cool like all the other dumbass teenagers. I can ask my friends if they know someone who can get me some weed, but that doesn't mean they know anyone who can get me some weed. I can go up to someone I know smokes weed, but I don't know them personally and ask for some, but that doesn't mean he'll tell me how to get some weed. And it's not like I can go to Wal-Mart and pick up a copy of "How to Make Pot for Dummies". Even with determination, you won't always be able to get your precious high. Also, alcohol is a different story. Massive amounts of people have been drinking alcohol for hundreds of years. It's MUCH more difficult to take away alcohol than it is other drugs. Also, in response to the whole, "You can buy drugs on the internet", have you ever bought drugs from these sites? Whose to say the government doesn't monitor these sites? I'm sure it's possible. But I'd really like to know how many of these sites are actually "legit".[/QUOTE] Actually man i've found drugs by asking people on the street, you obviously have never tried so you don't know what you are talking about, people will always help you out if you say you will give them some of the drug you are looking for if they help you [editline]19th September 2012[/editline] And you can just google how to grow pot and there are tons of guides, heck you can legally buy the seeds on the internet
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;37722628]As far as I know drug use is not actually illegal, once a drug is inside your system you can't be done for it in the UK at least unless you possess some more of it outside of your body[/QUOTE] I mean more of possession, worded that wrong
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;37722141]There have been no documented deaths from LSD overdose from Wikipedia, source - ^ Passie, Torsten; Halpern, John H.; Stichtenoth, Dirk O.; Emrich, Hinderk M.; Hintzen, Annelie (11 November 2008). "The Pharmacology of Lysergic Acid Diethylamide: A Review". CNS Neuroscience & Therapeutics 14 (4): 295–314. doi:10.1111/j.1755-5949.2008.00059.x. PMID 19040555. It tends to be distributed as square tabs of paper with 100 micrograms being the most common dosage - nowhere near the amount required to overdose I'd imagine overdosing just consists of a mega trip...[/QUOTE] there was a rumor a few decades ago that one dude somehow IV'd like $3000 worth of acid and died. just a rumor but goddamn that'd be one helluva way to go.
Shit, that must have been one killer trip (no pun intended)
obviously there are some drugs that are worse than others. and legalizing all drugs would be just a horrible idea. I dont think our culture is ready for legalization of drugs of any kind.
What you seem to fail to realise is that a lot of the dangers of the drugs that are "worse than others", as you put it, come directly from their illegality and the fact they are distributed through a black market. Keeping them illegal in no way stops people from getting them or taking them without an efficient totalitarian state and just makes them into a forbidden fruit gravitated towards by the vulnerable and the curious. Lots of those are driven to the "harder" drugs out of hardships in their lives that they wish to escape and often end up falling victim to black market side effects such as contamination, unknown strength hence incorrect dosage and accidental overdose, inflated pricing leading to property theft to fund a habit, etc.
Honestly I still don't see why drugs should be legalized because a few people want to hijack their brains for fun and/or get away from their problems. Honestly the positive effects are short term and the negative effects are detrimental in the long term. And if your problems are really that fucking bad you should spend your time and money dealing with them instead of shooting up on hard drugs, contaminated or not. And if your sorrows are somehow unovercome-able then suck it up or at least make an effort. Drug use in response to personal problems is in my opinion a sign of weakness since you need the assistance of a mind-altering chemical to carry your weight for you. Not that I oppose drugs totally; Like i stated earlier in this thread since Marijuana's effects aren't as extreme and can be used for medicine I actually think the legalization of it would be beneficial. Of course there will be people who abuse it to cope with their problems but in the long run I guess it would replace and be better than cigarettes. But hard drugs are many times more addictive and detrimental to those who use them; legally adding them to a plate of substances that people can use to cope with their problems is insane and unneccesary. Maybe its a good thing that drugs are illegal and have black market side effects like contamination/incorrect dosage/accidental overdose. These side effects effectively scare reasonable people away from falling into them and kills off at least some of the bad parts of the human genepool which promotes natural selection.
That isn't how natural selection works. It's survival of the fittest group, not the fittest individual. We have the capability collectively to make these activities and substances safer for the rest of our species yet we don't - we leave them to suffer black market side effects. Again, it is not possible to stop everyone from using these substances without an efficient totalitarian state so we might as well make them as safe as they can be for those who, perhaps foolishly or as an escape or equally perhaps because of curiosity, end up taking them. Taking drugs to escape one's problems does not show weakness, sometimes - if not taken to extremes - it can actually help. It is not a genetic problem to be bred out, the abuse behaviour is a nurture thing and the sooner all drugs become less stigmatised the more aware people will become of the potential outcomes of abuse. The fabled "reasonable person" you envision does not exist. We all make mistakes and bad decisions - why not make these substances safer than they are by regulating them so that when we make these decisions it doesn't have to end up fatal? How can you think that the black market side effects are a good thing? Sure they deter people who are level headed and not in a dark place from turning to them but the people we really should be helping - the one's who are on the edge and in a darker place where reason no longer matters to them - are actually harmed far more as a result. They are not genetically defective, they just make different choices based on where they are in life. "legally adding them to a plate of substances that people can use to cope with their problems is insane and unneccesary" - people already use them to cope with their problems and keeping them illegal does not help them at all "But hard drugs are many times more addictive and detrimental to those who use them" - mainly because of the previously mentioned black market effects, if heroin were legal and reasonably priced and available in a safe environment addiction would be no more of an issue than cigarettes are now, in fact cigarettes would likely remain worse. Addiction to opiates is not a problem and is not especially harmful to health when clean product is reliably available for a reasonable price preventing property theft to fund the habit and taking away the risks of overdose and contamination. Withdrawal from heroin may be uncomfortable (constipation, etc.) but it does not kill or cause a great deal of long term harm aside from the few days of craving and feeling like shit (where now, incidentally , most addicts would beg for it and get tied into loan sharking from their dealer and getting given cut shit that will only just keep them going).
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37696680]People are degraded by depression, anxiety, stupidity, insanity, carelessness. They shouldn't wither away simply because ''it's their body, it's their choice''. People are too stupid to care for themselves just as people are forced into situations which they don't wish to care for themselves or are mentally unable to, and that is why the law and rehabilitation clinics exist. Addictive and dangerous drugs should be forbidden, and the crimes for producing and distributing them for profit should be extremely severe, though people who do use them should be forcefully rehabilitated instead.[/QUOTE] People are degraded by all of those problems with absolutely no drugs involved at all.. Psychoactive drugs can be immensely useful in stress release/management and making life manageable, and then also useful in treatment by opening up new alleyways and experiences to an afflicted person. Right now the treatment for such conditions from a medical stance is 'hey you have X, well that sucks for you' and then jamming you on much more horrendous and damaging drugs like beta blockers, when a relaxing spliff once every two days might prove a much better solution.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;37750432]People are degraded by all of those problems with absolutely no drugs involved at all.. Psychoactive drugs can be immensely useful in stress release/management and making life manageable, and then also useful in treatment by opening up new alleyways and experiences to an afflicted person. Right now the treatment for such conditions from a medical stance is 'hey you have X, well that sucks for you' and then jamming you on much more horrendous and damaging drugs like beta blockers, when a relaxing spliff once every two days might prove a much better solution.[/QUOTE] Never said mostly harmless things shouldn't be legalized, I'm only talking about Heroine, Crack, and Meth. And some of the more dangerous stuff.
If abortions are banned, people will still have them. If drugs are banned, people will still get them. If someone wants something, they'll eventually get it.
U.S.S.R, as I've said many times in this thread, the reason "hard" drugs and "the more dangerous stuff" is dangerous in the first place often stems entirely from the fact that they are completely unregulated and the black market side effects that come as a result of that. Indeed, wauterboi, and both drugs and abortions just become more dangerous than they could be when they are banned instead of regulated properly. Both should be made as safe as they can be through regulation and be left to the parties involved to decide whether or not to partake. Banning just seems to be a word used to say that an issue is being brushed under the carpet and confronted every now and then with the initiation of force (to remind 'bad' people to be 'good') instead of tackled the proper evidence-based way.
[QUOTE=JustExtreme;37751568]U.S.S.R, as I've said many times in this thread, the reason "hard" drugs and "the more dangerous stuff" is dangerous in the first place often stems entirely from the fact that they are completely unregulated and the black market side effects that come as a result of that. Indeed, wauterboi, and both drugs and abortions just become more dangerous than they could be when they are banned instead of regulated properly. Both should be made as safe as they can be through regulation and be left to the parties involved to decide whether or not to partake. Banning just seems to be a word used to say that an issue is being brushed under the carpet and confronted every now and then with the initiation of force (to remind 'bad' people to be 'good') instead of tackled the proper evidence-based way.[/QUOTE] People are always going to come in this thread, saying something uneducated along the lines of 'legalise soft drugs but no heroine cocaine meth', responding to them all is redundant. The OP should have information as to why this is wrong.
[QUOTE=TamTamJam;37754335]People are always going to come in this thread, saying something uneducated along the lines of 'legalise soft drugs but no heroine cocaine meth', responding to them all is redundant. The OP should have information as to why this is wrong.[/QUOTE] Cocaine and Heroine, even when they are stricken of impurities and made into dosages, can be just as dangerous as they are if they were produced safely. Coke, for example, could increase someone's heart rate by massive amounts even if they were healthy and only took a small amount, individual body chemistry dictates that. [editline]22nd September 2012[/editline] With heroin, eventually the user comes to tolerate it, and then the dosage needs to grow, and it becomes dangerous. The only way to counteract that would be to take it between large intervals of time. You don't see people acting responsible with alcohol at all, who is to say they won't be the same way with 'hard' drugs?
[QUOTE=TamTamJam;37754335]People are always going to come in this thread, saying something uneducated along the lines of 'legalise soft drugs but no heroine cocaine meth', responding to them all is redundant. The OP should have information as to why this is wrong.[/QUOTE] [URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States[/URL] Here's some education. While I disagree with prohibition, I only advocate the sale of popular drugs like marijuana. This is because I know that I'm fortunate enough to be exposed to proper education about drugs but I'm not everyone. And the existing activism and information about drugs usually gets turned into this: [video=youtube;c4xmFcrJexk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4xmFcrJexk[/video] Who's tired of this stuff? I'm pretty sure stuff like this is just annoying, and I don't think a lot of people would take stuff like this too seriously. If level-headed information about drugs were able to be presented to the country somehow, I'd be more keen on letting some of the harder drugs become legalized, but even then there are a lot of people who can get jacked up as a result. When I say I'm against prohibition, I really mean I'm against blunt force. Instead of treating the mass of people in America as people unable to make decisions about what gets put into their body, we need to inform everyone about the issues. I used to be in a not-so-great neighborhood, and I've met some good kids hooked on cigarettes - and they're just starting high school. There's people who get drunk. There's people who get down-right stupid. There's people that get high off of illegal drugs. There's all kinds of things - and I don't think prohibition's going to solve it, but neither will simply releasing everything to the public. Oh, and I would totally enjoy a reasonable debate with sources. I'm not really offering much source-wise but these are simply my thoughts. Could totally be wrong - I'm just offering the take that I've developed over time.
Watch out for the new super drug! Old but I just saw it and gave it a good laugh. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bULWw-gfJsM[/url]
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37754647]Cocaine and Heroine, even when they are stricken of impurities and made into dosages, can be just as dangerous as they are if they were produced safely. Coke, for example, could increase someone's heart rate by massive amounts even if they were healthy and only took a small amount, individual body chemistry dictates that. [/quote] I don't see a problem here, nobody is forcing you to take cocaine. You take a personal risk that would be well known to anyone who bought it legally. [quote] With heroin, eventually the user comes to tolerate it, and then the dosage needs to grow, and it becomes dangerous. The only way to counteract that would be to take it between large intervals of time. [/quote] You don't really know how tolerance to a drug works, do you? If you're taking 10mg of clean heroin and you gain a heavy tolerance, you start taking 30mg to get the same effect. Yes it's costly, but it's only dangerous if it's impure or unsafe ROA/ unsafe ROA methods are used. [quote] You don't see people acting responsible with alcohol at all, who is to say they won't be the same way with 'hard' drugs?[/QUOTE] The majority of alcohol users do use it responsibly, however a minority don't. It's the same with other drugs. Alcohol is also rather unique in the fact that it lowers your inhibitions without, for the most part, immobilizing you.
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37750472]Never said mostly harmless things shouldn't be legalized, I'm only talking about Heroine, Crack, and Meth. And some of the more dangerous stuff.[/QUOTE] its spelled heroin, why can noone ever spell it right. Apart from the addiction pure heroin is very safe and having a government controlled market for it would safe countless lives. Heroin is used in hospitals all the time anyway because it is just a faster acting morphine, it gets converted to morphine in your brain before it takes affect anyway [editline]22nd September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37754647]Cocaine and Heroine, even when they are stricken of impurities and made into dosages, can be just as dangerous as they are if they were produced safely. Coke, for example, could increase someone's heart rate by massive amounts even if they were healthy and only took a small amount, individual body chemistry dictates that. [editline]22nd September 2012[/editline] With heroin, eventually the user comes to tolerate it, and then the dosage needs to grow, and it becomes dangerous. The only way to counteract that would be to take it between large intervals of time. You don't see people acting responsible with alcohol at all, who is to say they won't be the same way with 'hard' drugs?[/QUOTE] Well you know it will probably be the same as it is now except with far less risks because everything will be pure. Its not like everyone would start to use heroin just because it is legal, most people who want to try probably have tried it anyway and people who don't want to try won't suddenly be like holy shit its legal shoot me up. also it won't need large intervals of time to counteract it its much less time than you think to not build up tolerance, the real problems only start when its every day use. The tolerance thing happens with most drugs anyway, including alcohol. [editline]22nd September 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=wauterboi;37755958][URL]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_States[/URL] Here's some education. While I disagree with prohibition, I only advocate the sale of popular drugs like marijuana. This is because I know that I'm fortunate enough to be exposed to proper education about drugs but I'm not everyone. And the existing activism and information about drugs usually gets turned into this: [/QUOTE] Would you mind clarifying what you mean when you say a proper education about drugs?
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37754647]Cocaine and Heroine, even when they are stricken of impurities and made into dosages, can be just as dangerous as they are if they were produced safely. Coke, for example, could increase someone's heart rate by massive amounts even if they were healthy and only took a small amount, individual body chemistry dictates that. [editline]22nd September 2012[/editline] With heroin, eventually the user comes to tolerate it, and then the dosage needs to grow, and it becomes dangerous. The only way to counteract that would be to take it between large intervals of time. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=TamTamJam;37756302]You don't really know how tolerance to a drug works, do you? If you're taking 10mg of clean heroin and you gain a heavy tolerance, you start taking 30mg to get the same effect. Yes it's costly, but it's only dangerous if it's impure or unsafe ROA/ unsafe ROA methods are used. [/QUOTE] That's because he doesn't fucking know anything he's just an example of "Hey kids don't drug drugs because they're bad and they will kill you stone dead ok" that is used to supposedly educate people about the risks of drugs I bet he wouldn't be able to list the risks of long term heroin abuse or any other drug he talks about past "you get addicted and die" The main risk of cocaine that you're talking about isn't just because the heart rate is raised, playing sports raises your heart rate it's the vasoconstriction coupled with increased pressure as a result of lower area and the increased heart rate that can cause heart attacks The point these people don't seem to realize is I don't give a shit if drugs are dangerous I know this before I use them it's the fact that they thing anyone has the right to tell me I can't do something that can only potentially harm me, it's perfectly fine for me to buy aerosols and breath them in while I work without a facemask yet for some reason recreational drug use stops at nicotine and alcohol.
The worst part of keeping "safer" drugs illegal. Is that people make synthetic "equivalents" that do many times more damage than the actual drug itself. [editline]22nd September 2012[/editline] ie bath salts and spice
bath salts isn't actually a drug its a generic name given to sell many different kind of drugs, but the main culprit mpdv would still be around even if drugs were legal I think, its takes a special kinda person to be attracted to the peev
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;37697460]So you're saying people should be allowed to use substances which rot their fucking limbs into oblivion because of personal freedoms? And that families should be financially, emotionally, and possibly physically subjected to devastation because someone decided to shoot up since it was cool - and that nothing should be done to stop that? There is a big difference between keeping people from tearing themselves apart and violating their personal freedoms, even if it is done so involuntarily and forcefully. Legalizing it would turn cartels into corporations, it would worsen tobacco companies looking to 'expand their horizons'. Keeping a prohibition up is less expensive than putting shit like coke into the hands of millions of average Joe's who would be more concerned with the consequences of the law rather than the medical effects. If a prohibition makes cartels resist more, make the consequences heavier, fight fear with fear. I'll just leave this here, too. [url]http://www.ias.org.uk/resources/factsheets/crime.pdf[/url] [editline]17th September 2012[/editline] Self control and safety is more important than some person's right to escape from the drawbacks of reality for a little while.[/QUOTE] The stupidity in this post...
[QUOTE=MalwareOhMy!;37760657]The worst part of keeping "safer" drugs illegal. Is that people make synthetic "equivalents" that do many times more damage than the actual drug itself. [editline]22nd September 2012[/editline] ie bath salts and spice[/QUOTE] What do you think bath salts (assuming MDPV) is a synthetic equivalent of?
Mephedrone is similar to amphetamine/methamphetamine I believe
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